Australia's Military Alliance With United States Must End.

Originally posted by DevilsApprentice

Originally posted by daaskapital
reply to post by DevilsApprentice

 

Well, hey, i would fight, regardless of training. Anything is better than nothing.

Fired an Austeyr before ?

NO.
But I Have grown up in Australia where people have weapons that the government doesnt want us to have.

know how to reload both rifle and mags ?

Yes.

got any weapon of your own at all ? ( guess not , because the government took most of those ).

Yes i do and i can get more even if the government doesnt want me to.

Martial Arts training ?

Yes.

Have you done any shooting at all ?

Yes ive been shooting since i was 6 and i even have a gun / pistol licence for my job as a guard.

So the facts are that if Australia was invaded by America or china there are alot of us Aussies that would be able to fight back just like this

reply to post by WozaMeathed


I agree. If you look at when Germany invaded Russia in WW2 everyone was used. They had old ladies digging trenches and preparing the terrain. And I also agree about the guns thing. Practically everyone I know owns at least one gun..

And we are not idiots. You can improvise roadside bombs,chemical weapons on a small scale,there would be alot that could be used for hit and run type tactics and sabotage even after the army had been pushed back. We would make them fight for every gain I would have thought.

Originally posted by theubermensch
I saw our Defence Minister Stephen Smith's press conference on Sky News today. It seemed to be about nothing. He was talking about a review of our Military's ability to "meet emerging strategic challenges". Seems they are getting the taxpayer ready to increase our military budget.

I think this has alot to do with the fact that Obama was here recently telling us how lucky we are that he will be sending US marines to our soil in record numbers and we are strengthening our military ties. So we are obviously defending against the threat of China.

China is the reason we got through the 'global financial crisis' unscathed. China is the reason for our resources boom. China is Australia's future. Why should we risk our prosperity and the lives of our people for a bankrupt and desperate failure of a nation like the United States?

We are only a target because of America. We should be strengthening our military ties with China. It makes sense. We are the two powers in this region. Australia, China beats South Korea and Japan every time. Asia/Austalasia would be sewn up in the event of world war. Australia tips the scale bigtime. So why are we going to waste a massive amount of taxpayer dollars helping the bankrupt United States?? Its insane.

Instead of Marines we should offer China some land in Darwin for a military base and make sure they know that we are their friend and neighbour.Chinese immigrants are a large part of our population,the Chinese use our universities, they support our tourism industry,they invest here, thet create jobs here through mining, drilling, tourism,,,,, What the heck does the United States do for us? They make us a target. Not much else. We have no problem with them but they should keep their marines.

edit on 30-1-2012 by theubermensch because: (no reason given)

It won't break my heart if you cut ties with us. I won't be crying for you when youre gone, it's not like you people contribute to keeping the peace anyway. In fact if we ever vote to cut ties with you, i'll be voting yes.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

TextI won't be crying for you when youre gone, it's not like you people contribute to keeping the peace anyway

Yeah,Australians are real war mongers

And its not like we havent backed the US in every conflict you have been in since god knows when.

And we arent going anywhere.

As a Brit, I can see why this thread was started - their was a point a few years ago when people started casually referring to the UK as the '51st' state which was infuriating.

I like Australian's , their attitudes and culture. The best tactic I think they could use is to be neutral to America and China, that way they keep themselves away from trouble if the bullies in the Whitehouse start picking fights again, or China decides to kick America's arse or vice versa.

Either way, The Uk still has a lot of invested interest in Australia and despite the spoiled arrangements of WWII and the complications that arose their, I think the UK would help Australia and wouldn't see it fall.

A lot has changed since WWII and we have better technology, so I believe this time - help would arrive, but let it be known that Australia sided with America in WWII because the Australians feared the UK wasn't going to help Australia if the Japanese attacked them.

*Defence analyst Desmond Ball states that the fundamental basis of the US-Australian alliance, which officially began in 1941 is not the ANZUS Treaty or the many dozen other defense cooperation agreements between Australia and the United States, but the UKUSA Agreement of 1947-48 concerning SIGINT cooperation and exchange, and the maintenance of the 'joint facilities' in Australia. It is this agreement he argues which comprise the “ties that bind” (2001) and that in other words, the US relationship was now, somewhat ironically, indispensable to Australia's self-reliance. He argues that Australia’s relatively small population, a land mass of some 7.7 million square kilometres (and a 200-mile Exclusive Economic Zone of about the same area), and a coastline of some 12,000 kilometres, the defence of Australia requires high-technology long-range command and control, surveillance and intelligence, and weapons systems -- all of which the US provide.

There is no doubt that it is in a countries national interest to defend its territory however these ‘ties that bind’ also infringe on Australia’s sovereignty and ability to act independently, but what are the other options. This alliance has received bipartisan support for over 60 years.

There are also other reasons that Australian foreign policy has aligned so closely with the US. Srdjan Vucetic’s work The Anglosphere (2011) argues that although the “process of succession, dedominisation(sic) and decolonization destroyed the British Empire, what remained was a “distinct but loosely bounded community of peoples” who were fiercely committed to freedom, democracy, the rule of common law, and the English language” (Vucetic, 2011, p. 3). Vucetic also contends that this Anglosphere of Australia, Britain, Canada, New Zealand, and the United States, which structure the ‘core community’, is racial in its genealogy. He understands that this dependence is based on two equally broad sets of factors: ” discourses practices, and habits of collective identity on the one hand and asymmetric exchanges of rights and obligations in security, economic, legal, and other relations on the other hand (2011, p. 139).”

It is an interesting filter and is useful in supporting the idea that Australia’s ability to act independently of this hierarchy, seems unlikely.

*taken from my own paper on Australian Foreign Policy

reply to post by deessell


Hey.Thanks for sharing that.

The whole asymmetrical anglosphere thing is pretty interesting.Makes sense.

TextVucetic also contends that this Anglosphere of Australia, Britain, Canada, New Zealand, and the United States, which structure the ‘core community’, is racial in its genealogy. He understands that this dependence is based on two equally broad sets of factors: ” discourses practices, and habits of collective identity on the one hand and asymmetric exchanges of rights and obligations in security, economic, legal, and other relations on the other hand

The United States is the only one of us to break our bond

Originally posted by theubermensch
[post by deessell
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The United States is the only one of us to break our bond

edit on 30-1-2012 by theubermensch because: (no reason given)

I'm not sure what you mean.

reply to post by theubermensch


Are you channeling Neville Chamberlin?

He went the same route with the Nazi's, remember?

reply to post by theubermensch


Let me guess, your under the impression, that if you stay out of peoples business, nobody will bother you right?
Wrong! History proves, the weak are invaded and consumed.
So, knowing that one day, your ticket will be pulled, and also knowing that Taiwan could invade and occupy Australia at will. I would assume, you'd be more appreciative of Big daddy taking care of his little girl.

I would have put it a bit nicer, but your obvious hate for my country, I see no reason to show any love for yours.

until we can evolve to the point that we can get greed out of humanity there will be war so right now it's just a matter of picking sides at this point and this post seems to me that australians are choosing money over morality.

no one wants to see their family suffer in any way at all but australia seems more like america than china so why would you want china in your back yard rather than america? in any case.. good luck in however the next few months go down.

Can someone please break down where China would be able to kick the USA's butt. Just pick out the scenario. In the Air? Not a chance. How bout the Sea? A better fight but still no win. The only land battle they would win is if we were dumb enough to try an invade their home country. Solution: Bombard them from the Sea. Again! You can have a billion man standing army but logistics will kill you every time.

The only reason China and Russia are friends is because of the U.S. Say we were off the map, China and Russia would be back to battling over disputed territory. Taiwan, Tibet, Korea all consumed. Every nation in the South China Sea likewise. Keep drinking that tainted kool-aid. The only reason China is playing sneaky is because they don't want any part of military confrontation.

Besides they are doing fine on the economic front at the moment. But they sit on a house of cards just like everyone else. That's why the normal everyday citizen cant afford to live in the "ghost cities" they have built. The grass isn't greener cause you want it to be. Stop looking to other nations to try and fight your battles. If you don't want the US in your land stand up and make it be known to your neighbors and officials. It may not help much cause ours don't listen to us. But less typing more action is the general theme.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

It won't break my heart if you cut ties with us. I won't be crying for you when youre gone, it's not like you people contribute to keeping the peace anyway. In fact if we ever vote to cut ties with you, i'll be voting yes.

Who cares?

What peace is Australia supposed to be promoting while we are an ally of the most war mongering, bastardized western country on the planet?

We want peace and then get roped in by your crazy, bible thumping lot to the stupidest pseudo-wars simply because of the fear that if we are invaded we wouldn't have a chance without your help.

Frankly, we have a better chance without it anyway because we are only pissinng everyone else in our own region off.

The USA is not the disney-esque superhappyfuntime that it thinks it is.

I think that you should have a coke and relax. You can thank the USA for not being conquered and stripped of resources. China would just turn Australia into a polluted wasteland selling it its own demise. Besides, if it weren't for the USA your already almost non-existant (but pretty bad ass non the less) military would be atrophied. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Australia is a strategic place for many nations. Yes, the US is hurting right now. I wouldn't blame you for wanting to be more independent, but jumping to suck China's **** would be a huge mistake. If you enjoy the freedom you have anyway. America is still the strongest nation in the world whether you like it or not.

In world war 2, The Japanese had plans to invade Australia. After the end of Midway, that obvioulsy changed. If you hate The USA or not, without us you would have surely have eventually faced a Japanese invasion. No disrespect to our Aussie brothers, but the Japanese Empire would have Conquered Australia. ~SheopleNation

reply to post by Thurisaz


I hate to be the bearer of bad news - again - but the states is now many trillions of dollars in debt. Something like 10 to 20x their GDP. How does that translate into being the richest country in the world? I'll answer that one for you. It doesn't. You have the illusion of choice, the illusion of freedom and the illusion of prosperity. What's not to love?

reply to post by n3mesis


We will never evolve to that point while these shackles are still on. Get rid of the banksters and you get rid of the problem. Bigger problem is:how do you ostracize an organization that literally owns the planet. You don't, in my understanding of things. Therefore, we will just never evolve past the point we are at now, barring some miracle....

reply to post by xXxinfidelxXx


Yeah, and at the end of the day, it's the International Banksters who use America as their sword. That's what alot of people don't understand. That's why American tax payers were used in order to bail out INTERNATIONAL banks overseas. Everybody wants to point the finger at America, but the reality of the situation is that America is being raped and exploited for it's wealth and military power. It's a different ball game today. It's not like it was prior to World War 2, even though the root of the problem (actually the seed) existed even before that. It's bigger than America today. That's what people need to realize. ~SheopleNation

The idea that Australia would want to break it's alliance with the United States is LUDICROUS! The U.S. is the main and ONLY reason that Japan did not invade it in mass. I have been to many places in Australia...and they remind me very much of Americans. We are Blood Brothers by War.

China is very soon to become a Democracy....some put the time at 15 to 20 years...I believe 7 to 12 years or sooner. Chinese people very much want Democracy....and even though the U.S. owes China a lot of Money...the Chinese Economy is dependent on U.S. purchases of it's goods so a WAR between the U.S. and China is HIGHLY UNLIKELY!

I have three jobs and one of them in conjuction with another has me traveling all over the place so I know what people are thinking on the ground...and there is no Hatred towards the United States from China...even the Communist Leaders know...as the U.S. Economy goes...so does Chinas.

China was a U.S. Ally during WWII and this has not been forgotten. And even though many Military based Manufacturing Lobbiests in BOTH countries warn about threats from either or...this is all about MONEY and CORPS. A perfect example of this is Chinas purchase of an Old Soviet Aircraft Carrier that they are just now using as a training vessal for their Navy. While Lobbiests in Washington SCREAM...the U.S. must counter the growing Chinese Military and Naval ambitions....this is a JOKE!

The Chinese are no threat to the USN. as there is not even a comparison in abilities. If you have noticed lately...China has helped diffuse the situation in North Korea as well as toned down talk of reunification with Taiwan and just a few days ago...China dropped support for IRAN in the event of any U.S./IRAN skirmish or war.

Chinas ties to the U.S. FAR exceed any connection or treaty with any other country. Plus...and you can google this...a top Military Leader from China was invited to watch U.S. Military excersizes at Norfolk and other U.S. Military Installations....this Top Chinese Military Leader released a statement to the World...much to the chagrin to his Communist Higher Ups stating...the United States is MULTIPLE DECADES in advance of Chinese Military capabilities and any worry by the West of Chinese Naval aspirations are blown out of proportion as well as any Chinese Military statements of bravado that China could sucessfully take on the U.S. Military. Such statements by both sides are unconstructive to the foundations of Mutual Respect and Military Communications of intent that I hope I and my aids have begun to develop in conjuctio with our gracious hosts here in the United States.

This is the reality of U.S./CHINA relations...not confrontation but communication. Split Infinity

I agree, Also New Zealand should cut all ties to the U.S !