The Mysterious Death of Marilyn Monroe, page 1

The Mysterious Death of Marilyn Monroe

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Hello all,

I've been wanting to write up this thread for a while now admittedly, only failing to make it until now due to being distracted by other topics which I also happen to find quite interesting. But this case in particular, the Marilyn Monroe case, is one I've always found to be a particularly fascinating one, ever since I read this thread posted by ATS member Themythlives a few years ago now in fact. This thread being one of the reasons why I stuck around ATS in the first place. Even so, In the past I've gone to the trouble of writing up threads similar to this case, such as this one on Lee Bowers or this one on Dorothy Kilgallen for example, as well as quite a few more - But now though I've finally got round to this thread giving my own thoughts, opinions and theories looking at the hidden story of one of the most well known names of the last 50 years, Marilyn Monroe.

Before I continue with this thread which is obviously looking at the conspiracy angle to this entire case, I always feel like It's really quite important to know, or at least have a basic understanding, of the full story behind the story so to speak, so because of this here's my quick biography of Marilyn Monroe, who she was, what troubles she faced and most importantly what possible clues we have to possibly explain why she may have done exactly what she's said to have done in her last minutes hours alive.. Commit suicide.

How Marilyn Monroe Really Came To Be..

This person known the world over as 'Marilyn Monroe' was actually born Norma Jeane Mortenson (Although later changed to Baker). She became one of the most famous people of her time and in a sudden death remained as such. She was a well known movie star and actress, model, singer and all round well known personality at the time of her death ruled suicide in the summer of 1962.

This sudden death literally freezing her in time and most probably causing her to become the still well known person we can see today, despite this death taking place 50 years ago this year now, her body being found in the early hours of the 5th of August, 1962 to be exact, Monroe being a mere 36 years of age. The same can be said for others in fact, most notably Kurt Cobain and even JFK - In death is where fame and admiration is truly found it would seem.

(Young Monroe)

This seemingly talented person was not without her faults though as she's said to have famously suffered quite tremendously throughout her life, particularly in her early and final years, this in particular causing her to lose roles she was taking on at the time, these issues also becoming public knowledge. Her mother, Gladys, also suffered tremendously but most notably from mental health problems, this going as far as causing her to be eventually institutionalized meaning she could no longer take care of her child, Marilyn (known at the time as Norma).

Gladys was mentally unstable and financially unable to care for the young Norma Jeane, so she placed her with foster parents Albert and Ida Bolender of Hawthorne, California, where she lived until she was seven. One day, Gladys visited and demanded that the Bolenders return Norma Jeane to her. Ida refused, she knew Gladys was unstable and the situation would not benefit her young daughter. Gladys pulled Ida into the yard, then quickly ran back to the house and locked herself in. Several minutes later, she walked out with one of Albert Bolender's military duffel bags. To Ida's horror, Gladys had stuffed a screaming Norma Jeane into the bag, zipped it up, and was carrying it right out with her. Ida charged toward her, and their struggle split the bag apart, dumping out Norma Jeane, who wept loudly as Ida grabbed her and pulled her back inside the house, away from Gladys.

In 1933, Gladys bought a house and brought Norma Jeane to live with her. A few months later, Gladys began a series of mental episodes that would plague her for the rest of her life. In My Story, Monroe recalls her mother "screaming and laughing" as she was forcibly removed to the State Hospital in Norwalk.

(Source)

Monroe also never met her father throughout her young, troubled childhood, and she spent a great deal of her life in foster homes due to her mother’s mental health problems, as well as a great deal of time on the move never settling down, all of this obviously having an effect on the type of women she would become later on in life - A person desperate for love, acceptance and attention.

Despite being at a very young age Monroe would also go onto marry for the first time at just 15/16 years old in 1942 to James "jim" Dougherty, a young 20 year old neighbour of hers. They met at a time where Marilyn was living with her mother’s past best friend, Grace. They met and shortly afterwards began a relationship together, but Grace and her husband were planning to relocate from Los Angeles, California to Virginia eventually choosing not to take this young teenager with them for reasons unknown. It was proposed that she marry Jim to ensure that she wouldn't be forced back into yet another foster home, despite both of them being incredibly young at the time, still under the legal age in fact.



It was a marriage which reluctantly came about to two very young people still under the legal age and organized by her Aunt Ana Lower - a marriage destined to fail and fail it certainly did. It can be argued however that it was this marriage and the events it caused which made Monroe the world famous figure she would later become though.

You see, World war two began in 1942, and at this time Jim enlisted in the Merchant Marines and was initially stationed in California on Santa Catalina Island, this being where Monroe moved to for a short while. But he was to be shipped out overseas a few months later leaving her behind. She later moved in with his parents.

A young Monroe in 1945

Here, she sought out some work and she was to eventually find it in a munitions factory (Which is where the above picture was taken) in Burbank, but it was here that she was spotted and photographed by David Conover of the US Army's 1st Motion Picture Unit and it was at this time that she first began her modelling career upon his advice, encouraging her to apply for The Blue Book Modelling Agency. Upon Joe's return she was already a relative success and was close to landing a movie contract and all but forgotten him, they divorced in 1946.

With this new and somewhat sudden fame she changed her appearance, gaining most notably her famous blonde hair at the agency’s request (looking for lighter haired models) and changed her name to the name we all know her as today - Marilyn Monroe.



A remarkable transformation. Going from a kid working in a factory to becoming one of the most successful models of her time..

Once again, Monroe faced life in foster care. But she had one way out—get married. She wed her boyfriend Jimmy Dougherty on June 19, 1942. A merchant marine, Dougherty was later sent to the South Pacific. Monroe went to work in a munitions factory in Burbank where she was discovered by a photographer. By the time Dougherty returned in 1946, Monroe had a successful career as a model. She dreamt of becoming an actress like Jean Harlow and Lana Turner.

Her marriage fizzled out as Monroe focused more on her career. The couple divorced in 1946—the same year she signed her first movie contract. With the movie contract came a new name and image, she began calling herself "Marilyn Monroe" and dyed her hair blonde. But her acting career didn't really take off until the 1950s. Her small part in John Huston's crime drama The Asphalt Jungle (1950) garnered her a lot of attention. That same year she impressed audiences and critics alike as Claudia Caswell in All About Eve, starring Bette Davis.

(Source)

After this she quite literally became the talk of Hollywood - this being how she was often described in fact, appearing in various different successful films and going onto become one of the most recognizable names working at the time, and still seen as one of the most recognizable and successful names of all time in fact. She remained a well known figure right up until the last years of her life in the early 60's, this being the main focus of this thread.



It was in these last years that she became somewhat difficult to work with though, even being dropped from the title 'Something's Got to Give' reportedly appearing for around 12 out of a total of 35 days of production and just being difficult to work with when there. She was later sued for half a million dollars, all of this perhaps a significant factor in her death. It was also a very short while before her eventual death, ruled a suicide, that she was involved in another incident which is what she'll always be remembered for, the singing of Happy Birthday to the then President John F. Kennedy, the man she was having a secret affair with at the time, and also perhaps his brother the Attorney General Bobby Kennedy. Again, some believing this to be a significant factor in her death.



This incredibly fascinating person, for which we know today primarily due to her own demise, a demise we constantly see today in fact from those who struggle to cope with life in the public eye, It's claimed going onto kill herself as the official story would have it. Drugs overdose being the accepted and probable cause of death, despite some indications literally screaming otherwise. But how did this person really die? Was it suicide as the official story goes or in fact is there a lot more to this story than most people realize? Well, here's my thoughts and opinions on this case..

Murder, Suicide or Accident?

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According to some theorists, and It's claimed even those closely connected to the case such as Jack Clemmons for example, one of the first police officers called to the home of Monroe in the early hours of the 5th of August, 1962, there is more to this story than mere suicide, purposeful or even accidental. Whether those claims of a potential murder are true or not are of course another story but given the available evidence It's certainly not out of the question to suggest It's a very real possibility, at least In my opinion anyway.

It's well known that Marilyn had threatened suicide in the past though, and It's clear that she did have many of her own issues that she was dealing with daily, for which she heavily relied on Dr Greenson who I believe she also saw daily - It's said she looked up to him and saw him as a father figure, something she never had in her life. Towards the end of her life though, most would be forgiven for thinking she was "losing it" and going to a dark place for which she apparently would never return from, but going from what we know about her this seems to be wrong.

Towards the end of her life the problems with her last uncompleted film (Something's got to give) for which she was fired from had been all but resolved and she was looking forward to the future, to future roles, looking at what she would do, where she would go, what would become of her from then on etc. It seems that, contrary to common belief, she was happier than she had been for a long time. Because of this her death would seemingly become a bigger shock to those closer to her than it was as big a shock to the rest of the world - And it was this which caused some to believe that suicide was not the cause of death at all, instead murder.

Dr. Thomas Noguchi, the same man who would later be responsible for confirming that Robert F. Kennedy was shot from behind (while Sirhan Sirhan was in the front) which I discussed in some detail in this thread here, is also responsible for discovering how Monroe really died here. He claims that Monroe had a "suspicious" bruise on her hip which he can't explain, although very well may have an innocent explanation for:

Dr. Thomas Noguchi

"just above Monroe’s left hip, he did find a dark reddish-blue bruise. Judging by its colour, the bruise was fresh rather than old. Under the External Examination section of his autopsy report, Noguchi noted: ‘The unembalmed body is that of a 36-year-old, well-developed, well-nourished Caucasian female… the scalp is covered with bleach blonde hair… a slight ecchymotic area is noted on the left hip and left side of lower back.’"

Upon further testing he also found that there was absolutely no evidence of Monroe swallowing pills, despite the claim she swallowed approximately 47 Nembutal and 17 Chloral Hydrate capsules. There was no yellow dye in her stomach where there apparently should be (although in the below source he goes onto give an explanation for this and It's worth reading), all what was found however was "a milky substance."

Testing was only done on the blood and the liver, nothing else at all. Dr Curphey, who should've performed the autopsy but handed the case down to Noguchi who was a junior medical examiner at the time, announced later that day that Monroe had indeed committed suicide despite no real conclusive evidence it would seem. Noguchi, a few weeks later, attempted to perform further testing on the different untested organs in order to clear up a few things but he was unable to as everything else was already "disposed of."

It's claimed that Noguchi also asked for medical photographs and slides in order to examine the case that little bit further as the body was now said to have been disposed of but these had all disappeared. I believe Noguchi has asked for a reopening of the case on more than one occasion but of course no such thing has taken place to this day.

Cause of death was described as "Probable suicide" in the official autopsy.

He then began the internal examination. It was this that has given future generations of conspiracy theorists sufficient room in which to exercise their imaginations. In Monroe’s stomach, Noguchi found no visual evidence of any pills. Nor was there any sign of the yellow dye with which Nembutal capsules were coated – and which might have been expected to stain her stomach lining. All he found was what he describes as ‘a milky substance – there were no food particles or anything like that’.

Along with samples of blood, the internal organs were sent off for toxicology tests. Several hours after he had completed the autopsy, Noguchi received the toxicology report. The tests on the blood showed 8.0 mg per cent of chloral hydrate – another sleeping pill – while the liver tests revealed 13.0 mg per cent of pentobarbital (or Nembutal). Both of these were well above the fatal dose.

However, Noguchi admits he made a mistake at this point. The toxicology tests had only been performed on the blood and the liver – not on the other internal organs. He should, he feels now, have insisted that all the organs were examined. ‘I am sure that this could have cleared up a lot of the subsequent controversy, but I didn’t follow through as I should have.’ As a junior member of staff, he says, he didn’t want to risk displeasing anyone.

(Source)

Here's an interesting telegraph article that I'm reading which was wrote by John Preston on what Mr Noguchi found, how he came to do the autopsy in the first place, what he sees as suspicious and so on: Dr Thomas Noguchi: LA coroner confidential

Another source on this:

The pathologist, Dr. Thomas Noguchi, could find no trace of capsules, powder or the typical discoloration caused by Nembutal in Monroe's stomach or intestines, indicating that the drugs that killed her had not been swallowed. If Monroe had swallowed the drugs, there should have been residue.[citation needed] If Monroe had taken them over a period of time (which might account for the lack of residue), she would have died long before ingesting the amount found in her bloodstream. Monroe was found lying face down, but lividity on her back[citation needed] and the posterior aspect of the arms and legs[citation needed] indicated she had died lying on her back. The body was covered in bruises[citation needed], all minor except for one on her hip.

There was also evidence of cyanosis, an indication that death had been very quick. Noguchi asked the toxicologist for examinations of the blood, liver, kidneys, stomach, urine, and intestines, which would have revealed exactly how the drugs got into Monroe's system. However, the toxicologist, after examining the blood, didn't believe he needed to check other organs, so many of the organs were destroyed without being examined. Noguchi later asked for the samples, but the medical photographs, the slides of those organs that were examined and the examination form showing bruises on the body had disappeared, making it impossible to investigate the cause of death.

(Source)

Who Would Kill Marilyn?

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If Monroe was indeed murdered, which is still a real possibility, then the question really must be asked.. Who killed her, or who would want to? Well this possibly has been entertained a great deal over the years thus there have been plenty of discussion and theories thrown out to suggest a possible murderer.

According to some Monroe got "too close to the truth" with her already well known affair with the then President John F. Kennedy, this being at the time quite possibly the worst kept secret in Hollywood. According to one secret service agent about the affair:

As one Secret Service agent stated: 'We all knew about the weekend. It wasn't until she and the President were both dead that people started talking about an affair. Trust me, no one was saying anything about an affair in 1962.

'What we knew was that JFK and Marilyn had sex at Bing Crosby's, and that's it. We didn't think it was a big deal. He had sex with a lot of women. She was just one of many and it wasn't that noteworthy.

'If there was more to it between them, they somehow managed to keep it from us - and I don't think you can keep something like that from the Secret Service.'

The weekend in Palm Springs might have been no more to JFK than a thrilling conquest, but to Marilyn it meant much, much more. Afterwards she thought of little else and was obsessed with seeing him again

(Source )

I believe they initially met through Patricia Kennedy, sister of the Kennedy brothers and wife of friend and fellow actor Peter Lawford. Peter befriended Monroe and was known to introduce her to many of his well known friends, which now included Kennedy, as a way of improving his own status.

After growing closer, JFK wanted out, especially as Jackie was said to have known about it as well as the others, and Monroe was becoming a huge problem. She phoned the white house constantly and It's said she kept a diary of what was shared with her, this being what some believe led to her death (Mary Meyers, another of JFK's affairs, also kept a diary of what was shared with her before she was found dead, gunshot wound to the head and diary missing in 1964). As another Secret Service agent highlighted:

One secret agent working for the Kennedy administration added: 'She was calling him a lot. She wanted to see him. Everyone knew it.'

But the interest wasn't mutual - he wasn't returning her calls to the White House. Sinatra's friend and valet George Jacobs enjoyed many conversations with JFK during the President's stays at the singer's home.

'I spent enough time with the man to know that no woman, not even his wife, was sacred to him,' he said. 'His need was like that of Alexander the Great: to conquer the world. To him, Marilyn was one more conquest, a trophy - maybe the Great White Shark of Hollywood, but still a record, not a romance.'

For Jackie Kennedy, Marilyn was a girlfriend too far. In fact, some months later Jackie made it clear to JFK that she was deeply unhappy about the televised Madison Square Garden concert in which Marilyn breathlessly sang 'Happy Birthday Mr President' to JFK. Jackie threatened to file for divorce immediately, before the next presidential campaign, thereby jeopardising his chances of being re-elected.

'But Jack was already done with Marilyn anyway, by that time,' said George Smathers. 'He had this other girl named Mary Meyer he was playing around with, and there was always [his mistress] Judith Exner... and there were others, one of whom was rumoured to be the actress Angie Dickinson.

'His view of Marilyn was that she was a very sweet girl, but to him sweet girls were a dime a dozen and Marilyn was trouble. She began to ask for opportunities to come to Washington, to the White House, that sort of thing. But he told Jackie: "Look, it really is over. It was nothing anyway."

'Jack told me: "It's not worth it, George. I have a free ride here with Jackie. She gives me great latitude. So if this one is going to be an issue for her and cause me problems with respect to her dealing with the other women, then, fine, I can live without this one. No problem. So let's just end it with Marilyn before it's too late.

(Source )

Monroe wanted JFK but he didn't want her - He eventually broke thing's off with her, although It's claimed he sent in Bobby to do it for him - Bobby It's claimed being another to have an affair with Monroe.



Only one photo exists of them together, the one posted above, and that was no accident..

"The Secret Service had specific instructions not to photograph President Kennedy and Marilyn together because it would have been a national scandal," Morgan said.

The only photographer that was allowed into the party was Cecil Stoughton, the White House photographer and the person who snapped the photo.

Stoughton took several photos at the party, but once President Kennedy saw the camera, he turned his head towards the wall, Morgan said.

Later the Secret Service asked Stoughton to give them all of his photos of Kennedy and Monroe.

"He handed over all those negatives and photos. There [were] multiple ones," Morgan said. "And the only one that survived, ever, was that one that was in the dryer, you know, where they were drying the negative, and he kept it a secret for decades, decades and decades."

(Source)

This potentially being a very real reason for why Marilyn died. Some say she was shut up by someone close to the administration or by the mafia even (who were closely connected to the CIA who was already ordering hits on Fidel Castro at the time, some say a hit on Marilyn was also ordered), some others say she just couldn't take rejection from the most powerful man in America and took life into her own hands.


Some of the most bizarre claims are that on the night of her death Marilyn Bobby Kennedy was even present - a far-fetched claim no doubt but a claim which is accepted by many due to apparent multiple witness sightings of him. You see it's claimed by Norman Jefferies in the 90's, Eunice Murray’s son in law, and a handy man who was working on Monroe's kitchen on the 4th of August, her last, full day alive, that in around the afternoon Bobby Kennedy and Peter Lawford arrived at Monroe's house with another unknown man. Monroe was threatened and Dr Ralph Greenson was called in to quiet her down.

He claims that they then once again returned later that night at approximately 10:00pm, shortly after Lawford claimed to have spoken to Monroe on the phone. He claims they (Eunice too) then waited at a neighbour’s house. Upon returning they found Monroe comatose in the guest cottage, where she died. Jefferies said Monroe's body was moved to the main house by officers of the LAPD intelligence division and that the "suicide in the locked bedroom" scenario was orchestrated by the intelligence officers - Of course it must be said that this is indeed one of the more far-fetched explanations.

But It's claimed that Monroe didn't swallow any of the pills at all, thus why there was no evidence of it in her stomach, instead she was delivered the fatal dosage by the men who arrived possibly via enema.

A police officer that night by the name of Lynn Franklin also claims to have pulled over a speeding car driven by none other than Peter Lawford in the Los Angeles area, and in the car was an unidentified male and Bobby Kennedy also. He can be heard discussing it here:





It's claimed they were after her for 2 reasons - 1.) She was writing down what she was apparently being told while in the company of JFK, something he's become quite well known for doing and I said to have done the same to Mary Meyers before she was found murdered in 1964, a year after JFK. And 2.) It's claimed that Monroe was looking to reveal what she knew according to some.

This is a CIA document that appeared sometime in the early 1990s and has been (unwittingly) authenticated by the CIA itself, in that when Dr. Donald R. Burleson, author of UFOs and the Murder of Marilyn Monroe, filed his appeal of the CIA's refusal to release transcripts of government wiretaps on Marilyn Monroe's telephones, the appeal, which was based largely on the 3 August 1962 document in question, was accepted; ultimately no transcripts were released, but the acceptance-of-appeal process did demonstrate that the document is of authentic CIA provenance. The CIA could have denied the authenticity of the document and could thus have turned the appeal down, but they did not. It is contrary to Agency policy to accept any Freedom of Information Act request or appeal based on documents which the CIA does not acknowledge to be authentic; so, tacitly, they acknowledged that the document is genuine.

For easier reference, here is a transcription of the text of the CIA document:

Wiretap of telephone conversation between reporter Dorothy Kilgallen and her close friend, Howard Rothberg (A); from wiretap of telephone conversation of Marilyn Monroe and Attorney General Robert Kennedy (B). Appraisal of Content: [A portion redacted.]

1. Rothberg discussed the apparent comeback of subject with Kilgallen and the break up with the Kennedys. Rothberg told Kilgallen that she was attending Hollywood parties hosted by the "inner circle" among Hollywood's elite and was becoming the talk of the town again. Rothberg indicated in so many words, that she had secrets to tell, no doubt arising from her trists [sic] with the President and the Attorney General. One such "secret" mentions the visit by the President at a secret air base for the purpose of inspecting things from outer space. Kilgallen replied that she knew what might be the source of visit. In the mid-fifties Kilgallen learned of secret effort by US and UK governments to identify the origins of crashed spacecraft and dead bodies, from a British government official. Kilgallen believed the story may have come from the New Mexico story in the late forties. Kilgallen said that if the story is true, it would cause terrible embarrassment for Jack and his plans to have NASA put men on the moon.

2. Subject repeatedly called the Attorney General and complained about the way she was being ignored by the President and his brother.

3. Subject threatened to hold a press conference and would tell all.

4. Subject made reference to "bases" in Cuba and knew of the President's plan to kill Castro.

5. Subject made reference to her "diary of secrets" and what the newspapers would do with such disclosures.

[An indented block of text is redacted near the bottom of the page, and the document is signed JAMES ANGLETON, who at the time was the Chief of Counterintelligence for the CIA.]

Please read this source

Dorothy Kilgallen, mentioned in the above document, is also said to have been murdered although her death was also ruled a suicide as previously mentioned in this thread.

Whether much of this is true though, who knows. As far as I'm able to find many of those "out there" claims made about Marilyn do seem to point towards a Mr. Robert Slatzer and interviews he conducted with witnesses, and he's someone who, as far as I'm able to find information on, has gained a reputation for simply making stuff up or extending the truth ever so slightly in order to sell his books and make a few dollars. And he really ought to be taken with a pinch of salt to say the least, especially when looking at the alleged "official document." He even claimed to have been married to Monroe for three days in October 1952 with no evidence to prove such a thing among other stuff.

Another explanation points towards the mafia - In 'Double Cross: The Explosive, Inside Story of the Mobster Who Controlled America', a book authored by Sam and Chuck Giancana, the Nephew and brother of Sam Salvatore "mooney" Giancana, very well known and powerful Chicago Mobster, claimed that the CIA ordered Monroe to be killed and Giancana, who was already close to her, accepted the contract - Which isn't as far-fetched an idea as it may seem because once again, we do know for a fact the mafia was working with the CIA in order to eliminate Castro at the time, so we do know they did work together in such a way.

Sam Giancana

Sam Giancana goes into detail on the claims made in this video here, It's worth a watch if anything.



It’s claimed here that they tried to embarrass and publicly implicate Bobby in the plot to kill Marilyn Monroe as they had her house bugged and knew when he, or anyone else for that matter, was going to be arriving there. Then they struck on Monroe once he left, this explaining the potential sightings of Bobby and a worried friend in Los Angeles by witnesses which included a respected police officer.

It’s already well established just how much the mafia hated the Kennedy's, and Bobby in particular, so there's no doubt that at the very least if they had an opportunity to embarrass him, or try to frame him even, It's an opportunity they would take. It's also quite reminiscent of the Chappaquiddick incident also and how many believe Teddy Kennedy, the youngest Kennedy brother, was publicly embarrassed in an incident involving the death of a young women: The Infamous Chappaquiddick Incident

All in all though, I think It’s very possible that there was some sort of mafia involvement in this case. I know from past research that they’re by far more powerful than what we would expect them to be, and jobs of this nature seemed to be if anything, common place for them as official government documents have proven primarily thanks to the help of the ARRB.

At the same time though we really can’t be sure a murder did take place in the first place here – The way in which Monroe died does seem odd, to me it does anyway, even close to impossible. But she very well may have killed herself as the official story goes. She was a troubled individual although not as troubled towards the end of her life as many have portrayed. And she was known to overdose in the past. The implication of Lawford is an interesting twist to the case. He spoke to Marilyn hours before she died and then was “allegedly” seen at her home with other men by Murray and Jefferies. But, to me it seems quite far-fetched still.

This whole story very possibly could be as simple as it seems, or there very possibly could be that little bit more to it than we all realize, it genuinely could go either way in my opinion. Towards the end of her life we’re constantly told that Monroe was a depressed and broken individual, as I just mentioned, but those close to her seem to suggest otherwise as she was excited about the future if anything.

On the day she died she’s said to have been normal, possibly even upbeat according to everyone who spoke to her apart from Lawford who described her as down with a slurred speech and so on.

In regards to the claim that she locked her door – this being a claim commonly used to suggest that she knew what she was doing and she wanted to kill herself thus locking herself in her room - I can’t get over the fact that there was not another key in the house. Eunice Murray was installed in the house at the request of the Psychiatrist Greenson and she was giving him daily updates on her state of mind, her condition and so on. So I can’t help but wonder how Monroe would be able to just lock her door and there not be a spare anywhere else in the house - How could they be so reckless in this way?

All in all a very interesting and thought-provoking case I’ve found. It’s very easy to believe Monroe did kill herself, after all she has the perfect profile of someone who would perhaps do such a thing – Troubled youth, no father figure, suffered depression through her life, complete reliance on medication, constant heartbreaks, and previous threats of suicide and so on. Yet she seems a character in the middle of rebuilding herself. She seemed happy and excited about the future. The autopsy was never able to conclusively say she committed suicide, the end result a probably suicide and the events which took place seem to suggest someone not ready to kill themselves.

The Implication of Bobby is yet another interesting and final twist in the case. If there was a murder going on here and he was involved I think It's foolish to suggest he would be there personally to oversee it. If anything the mafia explanation - In that they was framing him or publicly embarrassing him in an incident eerily similar to Teddy Kennedy and Chappaquiddick years later - seems by far more plausible yet on the grand scale of thing's still relatively implausible.

all in all a very interesting case of tragedy and a case that I believe we don't know the full facts of yet - That's not to suggest a murder did take place still, but I think It should be considered a possibility at least.

Anyway upon ending this thread I have to say thanks to those who took the time to read everything and I hope it was an interesting one.

I’d be very grateful to hear what thoughts and opinions you had now, thanks..

Here's an interesting looking documentary on this case as well:

The Death of Marilyn Monroe, Part 1



The Death of Marilyn Monroe, Part 2



The Death of Marilyn Monroe, Part 3

reply to post by Rising Against

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Great thread..

I think she took the overdose around 7.00PM..that fits with her sounding slurred around 7.30PM.

It seems to me that her body was discovered around 11.00 to 12.00 and they made the mistake of cleaning the room before realizing it would be viewed as a potential crime scene.

Panic/ Hysteria ??

I don't think she was murdered, just a very sad person with deeper needs caught in the shallow limelight of fame.

Cosmic..

reply to post by Cosmic4life

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I think she took the overdose around 7.00PM..that fits with her sounding slurred around 7.30PM.

See, when I first started looking into this case I pretty much thought the same thing funnily enough. Looking at the timeline given by Lawford for example 7pm seems about right. But then again everything else goes against it, I mean just take for example the other people who spoke to her that night. Those who spoke after Lawford all claimed she sounded "normal", I believe she even booked a hair appointment at around 10pm (odd for someone planning to kill herself). Lawford was, again as far as I'm aware, the only person to claim she sounded anything other than normal. And we should bare in mind that people spoke to her before and after that call from Lawford.

It seems to me that her body was discovered around 11.00 to 12.00 and they made the mistake of cleaning the room before realizing it would be viewed as a potential crime scene.

Well Eunice Murray, the housekeeper, initially claimed It was at around midnight where she discovered Monroe and then changed her story to her seeing the light on in Monroe's room (under the door) at around Midnight, then she went back to bed, woke up at approximately 3am, saw the light still on in Monroe's room and then that was where she became suspicious.. and It was around 4:30 before the police were called - this being the official version of events (the final version let's say).

I heard Murray was found doing laundry after the police were called as well but I can't be sure of that right now to be honest. I think It's worth pointing out as well that she almost certainly would've known not to clean the room itself after Monroe was found dead. Anyone would've known not to disturb that room after finding something like that in there.

Thanks for your post though and I do understand where you're coming from here - Personally I think I'm on the fence with this right now but leading more towards the theory presented in 'Double Cross' which I discussed briefly towards the end of the thread. For that reason though, me still being on the fence, I hope and look forward to a good discussion in this thread.

reply to post by harlot7

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Thanks for your post harlot7, I hope you find the time to get to 100% Towards the end of the thread is where I gave the majority of my thoughts on the theories about this case.., particularly which ones I thought seemed by far more accurate.

Out of curiosity as well why have you always thought there was more to this case than "probable suicide"?

reply to post by Ops4Ops

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Hey Ops4Ops.

First off thanks for your post!

Second, I really do think it has to be said that those claims about UFO's and area 51 etc, and of course the supposed CIA document, are very likely to be fakes. They come from Robert Slatzer and have to be taken with a huuuge dose of skepticism unfortunately. I mean I'm sure we'd all like it to be true because, let's face it, It's a very interesting story, but It's almost certainly not true - the fact It's a very interesting story is probably the reason why some still hold onto it and accept it as fact even today, despite the shambles of a reputation of the man presenting it.

In regards to Monroe and Kennedy - Well, It's practically fact that they were having an affair together and I don't see any reason to doubt it, or doubt those who back it up.

You also brought up something else quite interesting as well and it's when you said this: "I also found it VERY intersting that JFK was dumb enough to spill top gov't secrets in the sack, if this is true"

You see oddly enough I was just talking about this to a friend of mine on skype - JFK may have done this with Marilyn, albeit quite unlikely to have done so, but if he did then she was not the only one. Mary Meyers, wife of CIA agent Cord Meyers (Who was identified in the E. Howard Hunt deathbed confession as being involved in the JFK assassination), was also having an affair with JFK (he was something of a womanizer) and she almost certainly was told secrets, particularly about Cuba, that she also wrote down - And would you believe she was also murdered in 1964, not very long after JFK or Marilyn or even Dorothy Kilgallen in fact, Dorothy being the first person who actually break the story publicly about Monroe and Kennedy - And who claimed a few days before her death she was "going to break this case wide open" before being found in her apartment after an apparent suicide by overdose. Sounds familiar? Well it should, It's how Monroe died.

Here's some great info on Meyers for you to read through:

In October 1961, Mary began visiting John F. Kennedy in the White House. It was about this time she began an affair with the president. Mary told her friends, Ann and James Truitt, that she was keeping a diary about the relationship.

In 1962 Mary made contact with Timothy Leary, the director of research projects at Harvard University. Leary supplied LSD to Mary who used it with Kennedy. Leary also claimed that Mary helped influence Kennedy's views on nuclear disarmament and rapprochement with Cuba. It was later discovered that the FBI was keeping a file on Mary. Later, James Angleton, head of counterintelligence at the CIA admitted that the agency was bugging Mary's telephone and bedroom during this period.

Kennedy aide, Meyer Feldman, claimed in an interview with Nina Burleigh that the president might have discussed substantial issues with her: "I think he might have thought more of her than some of the other women and discussed things that were on his mind, not just social gossip."

(Source)

In January, 1963, Philip Graham, the publisher of the Washington Post, attended a convention of American newspaper editors in Phoenix. Graham, who was suffering from alcoholism, disclosed at the meeting that John F. Kennedy was having an affair with Mary Meyer. No newspaper reported this incident but Kennedy decided to bring an end to the affair. However, they continued to see each other at social functions.

According to his biography, Flashbacks (1983) Timothy Leary claims that Mary phoned him the day after Kennedy was assassinated: "They couldn't control him any more. He was changing too fast. He was learning too much... They'll cover everything up. I gotta come see you. I'm scared. I'm afraid."

(Source)

In the summer of 1964 Meyer told friends that she believed someone had been inside her house while she was away. On another occasion she told Elizabeth Eisenstein that "she thought she had seen somebody leaving as she walked in". Mary reported these incidents to the police. Eisenstein said Mary was clearly frightened by these incidents.

On 12th October, 1964, Mary Pinchot Meyer was shot dead as she walked along the Chesapeake and Ohio towpath in Georgetown. Henry Wiggins, a car mechanic, was working on a vehicle on Canal Road, when he heard a woman shout out: "Someone help me, someone help me". He then heard two gunshots. Wiggins ran to the edge of the wall overlooking the tow path. He later told police he saw "a black man in a light jacket, dark slacks, and a dark cap standing over the body of a white woman."

Mary appeared to be killed by a professional hitman. The first bullet was fired at the back of the head. She did not die straight away. A second shot was fired into the heart. The evidence suggests that in both cases, the gun was virtually touching Mary’s body when it was fired. As the FBI expert testified, the “dark haloes on the skin around both entry wounds suggested they had been fired at close-range, possibly point-blank”.

(Source)

The really interesting thing about Meyers:

In March, 1976, James Truitt, a former senior member of staff at the Washington Post, gave an interview to the National Enquirer. Truitt told the newspaper that Meyer was having an affair with John F. Kennedy when he was assassinated. He also claimed that Meyer had told his wife, Ann Truitt, that she was keeping an account of this relationship in her diary. Meyer asked Truitt to take possession of a private diary "if anything ever happened to me".

Ann Truitt was living in Tokyo at the time that Meyer was murdered on 12th October, 1964. She phoned Bradlee at his home and asked him if he had found the diary. Bradlee, who claimed he was unaware of his sister-in-law's affair with Kennedy, knew nothing about the diary. He later recalled what he did after Truitt's phone-call: "We didn't start looking until the next morning, when Tony and I walked around the corner a few blocks to Mary's house. It was locked, as we had expected, but when we got inside, we found Jim Angleton, and to our complete surprise he told us he, too, was looking for Mary's diary."

James Angleton, CIA counterintelligence chief, admitted that he knew of Mary's relationship with John F. Kennedy and was searching her home looking for her diary and any letters that would reveal details of the affair. According to Ben Bradlee, it was Mary's sister, Antoinette Bradlee, who found the diary and letters a few days later. It was claimed that the diary was in a metal box in Mary's studio. The contents of the box were given to Angleton who claimed he burnt the diary. Angleton later admitted that Mary recorded in her diary that she had taken LSD with Kennedy before "they made love".

Leo Damore claimed in an article that appeared in the New York Post that the reason Angleton and Bradlee were looking for the diary was that: "She (Meyer) had access to the highest levels. She was involved in illegal drug activity. What do you think it would do to the beatification of Kennedy if this woman said, 'It wasn't Camelot, it was Caligula's court'?" Damore also said that a figure close to the CIA had told him that Mary's death had been a professional "hit".

There is another possible reason why both Angleton and Bradlee were searching for documents in Meyer's house. Meyer had been married to Cord Meyer, a leading CIA operative involved in a variety of covert operations in the early 1950s. Were they worried that Meyer had kept a record of these activities? Was this why Mary Pinochet Meyer had been murdered?

After leaving the CIA in 1977 Cord Meyer wrote several books including an autobiography, Facing Reality: From World Federalism to the CIA. In the book Meyer commented on the murder of his wife: "I was satisfied by the conclusions of the police investigation that Mary had been the victim of a sexually motivated assault by a single individual and that she had been killed in her struggle to escape." Carol Delaney, the longtime personal assistant to Meyer, later admitted: "Mr. Meyer didn't for a minute think that Ray Crump had murdered his wife or that it had been an attempted rape. But, being an Agency man, he couldn't very well accuse the CIA of the crime, although the murder had all the markings of an in-house rubout."

In February, 2001, the writer, C. David Heymann, asked Cord Meyer about the death of Mary Pinchot Meyer: "My father died of a heart attack the same year Mary was killed, " he whispered. "It was a bad time." And what could he say about Mary Meyer? Who had committed such a heinous crime? "The same sons of bitches," he hissed, "that killed John F. Kennedy."

(Source)

And here’s also some more information on Dorothy Kilgallen for you to, once again, read through:

Over the years Kilgallen received a great deal of information about the affairs of John F. Kennedy. However, she was a close friend of Kennedy (they had met via his mistress,Florence Pritchett). One day she was gossiping about Kennedy with her friend Allen Stokes. He asked her why she did not write about it in her column. She replied "I couldn't possibly". It would have been a great scoop. But she decided to protect him.

However, Kilgallen broke this rule when on the 3rd August, 1962, she became the first journalist to refer to Kennedy's relationship with Marilyn Monroe. She did not actually name him but left enough clues for the readers to identify Kennedy as the secret man in Monroe's life (later Kilgallen told friends she was actually referring to Robert Kennedy). One can only assume that she came under severe pressure from someone to write this story.
The following day, Monroe was found dead. Kilgallen must have realized that she had been set her up to smear the Kennedy brothers. Rumours soon began circulating thatRobert Kennedy had arranged Monroe's death to protect his brother's reputation.

John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas, on 22nd November, 1963. Kilgallen took a keen interest in the case and soon became convinced that Kennedy had not been killed by Lee Harvey Oswald. Kilgallen had a good contact within the Dallas Police Department. He gave her a copy of the original police log that chronicled the minute-by-minute activities of the department on the day of the assassination, as reflected in the radio communications. This enabled her to report that the first reaction of ChiefJesse Curry to the shots in Dealey Plaza was: "Get a man on top of the overpass and see what happened up there". Kilgallen pointed out that he lied when he told reporters the next day that he initially thought the shots were fired from the Texas Book Depository.

(Source)

Kilgallen was keen to interview Jack Ruby. She went to see Ruby's lawyer Joe Tonahill and claimed she had a message for his client from a mutual friend. It was only after this message was delivered that Ruby agreed to be interviewed by Kilgallen. Tonahill remembers that the mutual friend was from San Francisco and that he was involved in the music industry. Kennedy researcher, Greg Parker, has suggested that the man was Mike Shore, co-founder of Reprise Records.

The interview with Ruby lasted eight minutes. No one else was there. Even the guards agreed to wait outside. Officially, Kilgallen never told anyone about what Ruby said to her during this interview. Nor did she publish any information she obtained from the interview. There is a reason for this. Kilgallen was in financial difficulties in 1964. This was partly due to some poor business decisions made by her husband, Richard Kollmar. The couple had also lost the lucrative contract for their radio show Breakfast with Dorothy and Dick. Kilgallen also was facing an expensive libel case concerning an article she wrote about Elaine Shepard. Her financial situation was so bad she fully expected to lose her beloved house in New York City.

Kilgallen was a staff member of Journal American. Any article about the Jack Ruby interview in her newspaper would not have helped her serious financial situation. Therefore she decided to include what she knew about the assassination of John F. Kennedy in Murder One. She fully expected that this book would earn her a fortune. This is why she refused to tell anyone, including Mark Lane, about what Ruby told her in the interview arranged by Tonahill. In October, 1965, told Lane that she had a new important informant in New Orleans.

Kilgallen began to tell friends that she was close to discovering who assassinated Kennedy. According to David Welsh of Ramparts Magazine Kilgallen "vowed she would 'crack this case.' And another New York show biz friend said Dorothy told him in the last days of her life: "In five more days I'm going to bust this case wide open." Aware of what had happened to Bill Hunter and Jim Koethe, Kilgallen handed a draft copy of her chapter on the assassination to her friend, Florence Smith.

On 8th November, 1965, Kilgallen, was found dead in her New York apartment. She was fully dressed and sitting upright in her bed. The police reported that she had died from taking a cocktail of alcohol and barbiturates. The notes for the chapter she was writing on the case had disappeared. Her friend, Florence Smith, died two days later. The copy of Kilgallen's article were never found.

(Source)

See, I have a theory that they're all connected together. Right from the beginning of the presidency all the way to Chappaquiddick, and maybe even beyond that as well. Dorothy Kilgallen died in the same way as Monroe and quite possibly for the same reasons - to keep them from talking. And Meyers almost certainly died for the same reason - To keep quiet.

When you look at the entire thing, the whole case of the Kennedy's and cases like Monroe, Kilgallen and Meyers etc., and there;'s more like them, they can all be pieced together and trust me, they all fit quite nicely.

reply to post by Rising Against

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Hey man,

I knew it was you when I saw the title. We have spoken before about the Kennedys. I have to begin getting ready for work but I am looking forward to reading this when I get home tonight.

One subject I have always been curious about but which has never quite risen to the top of my priority list.

A really good book about Marilyn is: "The Secret Life of Marilyn Monroe" by: J. Randy Taraborrelli.

Marilyn's Grandmother and Mother suffered from paranoid schizophrenia....they heard voices from time to time...so did Marilyn. Hollywood really wanted to cash in on her talent...so they...make excuses for her...give her uppers and downers etc...and helped her to be in denial about the very real mental illness that she had.

I personally think on her last day of life....she was exhausted and just wanted to sleep...I think she either took too many pills...and/or the mixture of pills was lethal...unknown to her. I think her death was an accident.


Note: The above stated book is a digital edition...that can be checked out...online ...from many local libraries. You need Adobe digital editions...to download the book...it is free.

Also...many believe that a woman by the name of Sherrie Laird is Marilyn Monroe reincarnated. Sherrie Laird at the top of the page is the woman to the right. There is an amazing resemblance. Is this true or not? I really don't know.


Source: www.johnadams.net...

reply to post by Rising Against

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Hi Rising, this is the 2nd time I have been sidetracked from my work by one of your fantastic threads (the 1st time being the Kennedy thread).

I love how your way of writing puts things over, I've tried to read up on both these cases in the past, and found too much info, derailing and totally biased perceptions from the author(s) offputting.

I also like how you put in photo's that are less well known.

Im afraid I do not feel I know enough on either topic (novice that is me) to make any assumptions of my own just yet, but I am thoroughly enjoying all your hard work, thanks

reply to post by Rising Against

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Awesome you finaly got around to it i remember us having a conversation through U2U's on this subject and for the life of me i can't remember what i linked Marilyn with that started our conversation.
I cant wait to start reading x x x

Oh and reminder to self.. never clean up or delete your U2U mail

love and harmony
Whateva

reply to post by Rising Against

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IMHO - neotech1neothink - THE BASTARDS MURDERED HER! I've researched this on and off for 25 years along with every other conspiracy on earth.

CAN ANYONE HERE HELP ME FIND THIS! THERE WAS AN ARTICLE A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO IN THE ONLINE EDITION OF "READERS DIGEST" MAGAZINE -- A SECRET SERVICE AGENT ACTUALLY ADMITTED MURDERING HER! I KNOW I WASN'T DREAMING COS I'VE GOT IT ON AN OLD HARD DRIVE SOMEWHERE!

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