Giraffes gunned down for family holiday 'fun'

Originally posted by Dragoon01
Cry me a river!
What are we up to about 10 of these emotional mushfest threads this week? Its still early so maybe we can hit our weekly quota of 30.

Lets do what you all say. Lets stop tourist hunters from going to Africa and killing stuff. Please do so. By all means.
Then after this new wonderful policy of yours has had time to take effect. After you have saved all these glorious creatures from being "murdered". Then we can all put you on a plane and divide you up. Some will go to Kenya, some will go to Tanzania, some will go to South Africa. Once there you will drive deep into the hinterbush to the remote villages. You will get out and the elders of the tribes will be told that you all are responsible for the ban on hunting.
Once they have killed and eaten you I will collect all of your fancy zero weight backpacks and ultra high tech travel gear and bring it home to sell. I will donate the money back to those villages that you destroy by removing the only source of steady income they have. I will make sure that I take DNA samples of all the wild life that will soon be extinct since no one locally will really care if they live or die anymore.

Get off your high horses and stop gushing all over yourselves to be the most disgusted by a normal human activity.
People kill things. Guess what some of them like to kill animals. Its a rush you cant imagine unless you have done it. It is what it is. As long as the animal is used the cycle of nature continues. Herds of grazing animals must be selectively hunted to maintain the balance. Like it or not Natural predators have been killed off and do not take as many animals as needed to keep the balance. Too many herd animals the food is over eaten. Many will starve (suffer) To few animals and the other animals that depend on them for food will starve. Thats why you manage the herds and kill trophy animals. This allows other members of the species to grow larger and more healthy. Wipe your tears up and learn a little.

I am hearing yah! You are saying there is no better way for us and their is only room for one final species on this planet..may humans rein!!!! May all else die off so a few more of us can live to destroy our polluted environment yes! you are so wise!!

Originally posted by jhn7537
I'm okay with hunting if its done for controlling overpopulation or for food.... But for sport??? Ill never agree with it and I believe its totally wrong to kill some of natures most beautiful creatures... Some people dont have a heart

I think you may love this!!
www.youtube.com...&rel=0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3

I too am disgusted that this sort of "sport" happens but also that some people relish the "rush" of killing another living thing (where the sport is in using a gun to kill is also beyond me - go primitive and kill a bear or yes, even a Buck with your bare hands and then you might have something to brag about). No, I have not experienced that rush nor do I ever intend to. I do, however, wonder how people have such polarized views of such activities.

Honestly, I find it odd that I am as "anti-killing" as I am and that there are as many people who find such actions
abhorrent. On a world such as this, where unfortunately the way of life is to take the life of other creatures to ensure your own and your offspring or dependents (for a while anyway, since death is the eventuality for us all). I would think we would all enjoy hunting or at least not have such a negative and emotional reaction to it. Evolution or simple self-preservation would - you'd think logically - lead to people being the hunter type.

For whatever reason - it sickens me. The whole idea of having to take life to continue your own is nightmarish to me. And that's nature - I mean it's not like it's a lifestyle choice (well, obviously not everyone has to kill animals themselves - mother jaguars kill for their young, village hunters kill for the other members of the tribe, etc). But to me the whole "cycle of life" is horrific, and whether it's just how nature developed or some God or gods that decided (or allowed) things to work like this, it's twisted and nightmarish to me.

Obviously some of you feel very different, and others fall in the middle somewhere - i.e. you would never kill an animal for sport nor would the middle ground folks get any sick pleasure from taking another creature's life. Then the other extreme is being disgusted with killing period. I guess I fall somewhere between the middle and extremist non-killing end as I understand it is necessary for many people but still find it repulsive.

I find that intensely curious. Is it the sort of thing that can only develop in civilized/advanced societies and cultures where humans can be far enough away from the brutal realities of survival that we can come to feel this way? Or if there's anything to the whole spiritual/ascendent development ideas of life and beyond, perhaps it indicates an awareness of how precious life is and a sign that perhaps man can evolve beyond such base necessities and certainly beyond the barbaric pleasure of killing? Of course even that has often seemed contradictory to me - i.e. IF there really is "more" and physical death is just the beginning or continuation of a greater spiritual existence, then killing (for necessity anyway) isn't really as bad as it seems while we're stuck here in this existence with the amnesia of such greater existence is for some reason necessary, right?

I know some of you will groan and roll your eyes at another bleeding heart animal lover pouring his heart out. But truly I do wonder what it all means in the "Big Picture" - if anything, or if there even is a Big Picture? And sure, you might think I'm pathetic because I care about animals and would never kill an animal with absolutely having to (if then) - but think about it this way: if you got injured on some hunting trip in the middle of nowhere, I'd be the guy that would help you - because I am one of those caring and altruistic types. (Well, unless you told me you hurt some animal then maybe I'd join your ranks and have some fun seeing how many more of your limbs I could break before your pathetic whining finally stopped... and yes, I am kidding - but even though I know it's a joke, that same part of me that is sickened by killing animals is making me queasy enough that I'm cconsidering erasing this - it's that strong - but I do want to make the point, should anyone get it).

In any case, such polarized reactions and feelings on something necessary for survival are intensely interesting to me. And only on ATS can you wonder if such divisions in humanity are from nature or nuture, or the ATS-stye versions of these things such as genetic tampering by aliens or human overlords to breed more docile slaves, or a sign that humanity is awakening from the barbaric and brutal sleep of the purely physical realm and is becoming more attuned to a higher and

more noble and loving existence that is our next phase of development, and so on, or if we are just mostly a bunch of evolving savage beasts where natural selection is trying out one more option from the infinite varieties, and that those of us who side with the animals are just nature's way of seeing what works. Of course the hunter/sport murderers would probably just kill us off - but then again, maybe our "compassion" gene adds some IQ points or something and we can just trick into wiping each other out in some $100,000 "Most Dangerous Game KIllathon" in some roped off area of booby trapped jungle somewhere. Kidding, of course.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Char-Lee
I don't eat animals or use animal products, the whole human race needs to grow.

This may work for you but the majority of humans realize that we are omnivores and will eat meat accordingly.

We are what we want to be.

The longest lived healthiest humans ARE vegetarian. My sisters girls were raised with not a drop of animal "product" they are two of the most beautiful healthy people I have ever seen, one a lawyer works for charity and the other for the environmental area in federal gov.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Darce
By the way, fruit and vegetable bearing plants feel pain and know terror too. I hope you think about that next time you kill those innocent tomatoes.

There is no reputable evidence which says that plants feel and experience pain, let alone possess sentience, self-awareness or feel emotions. They don't have a brain, for a start. Of course, it would be erroneous to categorically state that they don't experience pain (they may have another mechanism which allows them to ''think'' and experience emotions and feelings, which is yet to be discovered), but seeing as there is no evidence to support this, there is absolutely no reason to believe in a tenuous hypothetical proposition, such as this.

On the other hand, there is overwhelming evidence which suggests that our close mammalian relatives are sentient, and experience pain and emotions.

Aside from the factual inaccuracies, the ''plants feel pain'' argument which is promulgated by conscience-panged carnivores, is the height of dishonesty.

If you genuinely believe that plants feel pain, then are you as disturbed by seeing someone mowing their lawn as you would be if you saw someone chopping up a cow? Are you as upset by seeing someone pulling petals off a flower as you would be if you saw them pulling limbs off a pig? Are you be as disgusted by someone uprooting a weed as you would be if you saw them pulling the head off a dog? Do you think that people who intentionally uproot or damage plants should face ''plant cruelty'' charges and sentences which are equal to those that they would face for animal cruelty?

If the answer to these questions is ''no'', then you know full well the difference between killing and eating a plant and killing and eating a fellow mammal.

I would like also to add that many plants are designed to have their seed eaten so as to spread them. Apples, and most fruits and many plants would not be able to spread without creatures eating parts of them.

reply to post by NewtonDKC

But you keep saying we have to kill to live, can you not see that hundreds of thousands to millions of people are healthy and happy and do not kill or eat any killed creature to live?

A study was done a while back on health and long life in humans. They found that in the USA Seventh day Adventists are the healthiest people and longest lived, they are vegetarian.

reply to post by mileysubet


Oh come on, he didn't say circus. Zoo's in the western world can actually be better for the animals than wildlife itself. It's called preservation. What did we do for the Panda after that was extinct? Sent a few to zoos so they can mate in peace without being hunted!

reply to post by NewtonDKC


Very interesting read

I think culture plays a massive part,here in the uk people generally have high regard for wildlife/animals and as you said i think thats because we are so removed from needing to kill for survival,and the fact that owning a gun in the uk is very controlled.which brings me to another question-

Does this go on outside of a third world country?as someone pointed out this brings money into africa which otherwise it wouldnt have access to.

ETA-in regards to this happening elsewhere seems so,russia,spain and australia all have "trophy hunting" sites.

Regards to all

reply to post by Petest205


Star for you,yes zoo`s play a massive part in breeding programs and education.

In keeping with the thread title heres a link to colchester zoo were they have a breeding programme for the Rothschild giraffe.

There are thought to be just a few hundred pure Rothschild giraffes living in the wild and all of these live in protected parks across Uganda and Kenya.

Link-www.colchester-zoo.com...

Regards to all

reply to post by silverking


Go Daddy's CEO hunts elephants.............a$$hole!

I wouldn't buy anything from this company if it was the only company.

Many "elite" hunt...........Bush's do, so does English Royalty, they let dogs loose to tear foxes apart, not for food but fun.

Please read just one book, Dominion by Matthew Scully.

The video below in this article is pretty graphic.

GoDaddy CEO Bob Parsons is taking a lot of heat for the video, which details his recent elephant hunt. However, the CEO originally tried to frame the hunt as almost a "humanitarian" expedition. Many disagree.

The rest of the article with a very graphic video (I could not watch, I have handled elephants and they are really intelligent and most are sweet natured IF HANDLED WITH RESPECT. www.huffingtonpost.com...

And yes people will come back and say, well it was a "problem" elephant.

As human populations spread and take away more and more animal habitats who has the right of way?

Man? This is arrogant and cruel thinking.

Like a greedy child.

Humanity must learn to share the land.

Now, if there is such a thing as karma (what goes around comes around) and reincarnation which many believe in, just think for one moment if whoever is reading this and is a hunter - comes back as the hunted????

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa - Karma is a bitch only if you are.

BTW: I love Wisconsin but hate the restaraunts that have animal heads all over the walls...........not appetizing at all.

Lastly I really strongly suggest reading three books by Ervin Laszlo:

** The Systems View of the World
** Chaos Point 2012 And Beyond
** The Chaos Point The World At The Crossroads

According to Ervin Laszlo, we are at a critical juncture in history, a "decision-window" where we face the danger of global collapse--or the opportunity for global renewal. He presents a concise overview of the current crises we face (environmental, social, economic, and institutional), persuasively arguing that if something is not done quickly, we face disaster. We have the opportunity right now to head off trends that could lead to a critical tipping point. Laszlo's solution is a global consciousness shift that entails a new universal morality, a new ecological awareness, and a reverence and caring for the earth. Included here are concrete suggestions of what the reader can do to promote this shift in evolutionary consciousness. Source: back of Chaos Point 2012

This man gives viable solutions on how to heal our planet...........gunning down animals for "fun" isn't on his list.

It's primitive, barbaric, cruel and a very very selfish & greedy mindset.

I am a vegetarian and really, there are so many yummy things on the market that taste like meat but aren't.

You would be surprised.

WARNING GRAPIC VIDEO NOT FOR CHILDREN OR PEOPLE WITH A KIND HEART.



What goes around comes around...........law of physics.

“Animals are more than ever a test of our character, of mankind's capacity for empathy and for decent, honorable conduct and faithful stewardship. We are called to treat them with kindness, not because they have rights or power or some claim to equality, but in a sense because they don't; because they all stand unequal and powerless before us.” ― Matthew Scully, Dominion: The Power of Man, the Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy

“Let's just call things what they are. When a man's love of finery clouds his moral judgment, that is vanity. When he lets a demanding palate make his moral choices, that is gluttony. When he ascribes the divine will to his own whims, that is pride. And when he gets angry at being reminded of animal suffering that his own daily choices might help avoid, that is moral cowardice.” ― Matthew Scully

“Wildlife, we are constantly told, would run loose across our towns and cities were it not for the sport hunters to control their population, as birds would blanket the skies without the culling services of Ducks Unlimited and other groups. Yet here they are breeding wild animals, year after year replenishing the stock, all for the sole purpose of selling and killing them, deer and bears and elephants so many products being readied for the market. Animals such as deer, we are told, have no predators in many areas, and therefore need systematic culling. Yet when attempts are made to reintroduce natural predators such as wolves and coyotes into these very areas, sport hunters themselves are the first to resist it. Weaker animals in the wild, we hear, will only die miserable deaths by starvation and exposure without sport hunters to control their population. Yet it's the bigger, stronger animals they're killing and wounding--the very opposite of natural selection--often with bows and pistols that only compound and prolong the victim's suffering.” ― Matthew Scully, Dominion: The Power of Man, the Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Fox hunting with dogs is now illegal in the uk,pretty sure that means the royals also.

Regards to all

reply to post by FeatheredSerpent


The common folk in England may but your royalty don't ........................ ever watch a fox hunt?

There was also a story about a dog tied to a soccer post and set a fire.

Not just singling out England, now they are burning street dogs alive in the Ukraine because they are hosting some international games.

www.care2.com...

Don't get me going.......................dogs, cats, rabbits, birds - (except that cute parrot that likes to cuss) don't have a voice.

We are their voice.

Adopt, spay and neuter.........................and be kind, play nice.

reply to post by FeatheredSerpent


Starred, thank you for making my day.

In researching you are most correct a ban was put into effect around 2004.

Surprisingly Camilla was big on hunting vs. Charles.

Wonder what they do hunt now in private beings they can't satisfy their blood lust in public?

Originally posted by Char-Lee
The longest lived healthiest humans ARE vegetarian.

This is very much in dispute and there are numerous surveys that prove otherwise.

Guess what,
When the SHTF and our sytem of transportation and shipping fails you vegans are going to die. I dont say that as a threat.Its a real danger for you. I would speculate that the majority of the vegans do not have anywhere near the means to feed themselves for a sustained period of time. Unless you can eat meat (which nature intended you to do) you will not be able to sufficently feed yourselves. Its not about nutrition I understand that you can get a lot of the protein you need from legumes its about quantity and time to table. If you are limiting yourselves to JUST vegitables then you have cut down the available food sources to you in times of need by a significant amount. You have the luxury of being vegans in good times, its a vastly differnt thing when all you have to eat or will have to eat for days is a can of Spam.


Now please stop whining about sport hunting. Someone brought up the Buffalo as an example of out of control hunting. Yes that is an example of people who did not pay attention to the surroundings. The moderrn hunter is a conservationist and does more to keep animals alive and breeding in good health than most of you. How many of you have planted food plots for deer? I am very anti-government and I feel there is a better way to do things but one area that licensing systems do function is controling the taking of herd species. If a hunter going to Africa pays thousands of dollars to hunt a large trophy species its in large part to obtain the license to do so. That fee goes to maintain the perserves that most of these wild animals live within. The fees are used to protect the rest of the animals. The animal that is taken is carefully sellected so that its loss has a benefit to the rest of the herds or groups. Back to the Buffalo, what was it that brought the Buffalo back from the brink of extiction? Was it Yellowstone and government protection? No it was Ted Turner raising them for food! And yes they are tasty, so is Ostrich for that matter.

all i can say is how can we put a price tag on this..?
it makes me sick to see how much we have changed as humans.

we used to hunt for food, clothing and necessities.

i guess we have to start charging them in this age of consumerism.. things are starting to become harder and harder to find..

sales man : "so you wanna do some dodo bird shooting eh? its ganna cost 100 bucks this year"
stupid hunter : "WHAT? last year it was only 50?!"
sales man: "eh, what can i say? the supply is lower than demand this year"



Ps: i love meat. i just believe "sport" hunting has no place in the world.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Char-Lee
The longest lived healthiest humans ARE vegetarian.

This is very much in dispute and there are numerous surveys that prove otherwise.

www.vivausa.org...

OH you mean the ones paid for secretly by cow, pig and chicken magnates! :-)

Originally posted by Dragoon01
Guess what,
When the SHTF and our sytem of transportation and shipping fails you vegans are going to die. I dont say that as a threat.Its a real danger for you. I would speculate that the majority of the vegans do not have anywhere near the means to feed themselves for a sustained period of time. Unless you can eat meat (which nature intended you to do) you will not be able to sufficently feed yourselves. Its not about nutrition I understand that you can get a lot of the protein you need from legumes its about quantity and time to table. If you are limiting yourselves to JUST vegitables then you have cut down the available food sources to you in times of need by a significant amount. You have the luxury of being vegans in good times, its a vastly differnt thing when all you have to eat or will have to eat for days is a can of Spam.


Now please stop whining about sport hunting. Someone brought up the Buffalo as an example of out of control hunting. Yes that is an example of people who did not pay attention to the surroundings. The moderrn hunter is a conservationist and does more to keep animals alive and breeding in good health than most of you. How many of you have planted food plots for deer? I am very anti-government and I feel there is a better way to do things but one area that licensing systems do function is controling the taking of herd species. If a hunter going to Africa pays thousands of dollars to hunt a large trophy species its in large part to obtain the license to do so. That fee goes to maintain the perserves that most of these wild animals live within. The fees are used to protect the rest of the animals. The animal that is taken is carefully sellected so that its loss has a benefit to the rest of the herds or groups. Back to the Buffalo, what was it that brought the Buffalo back from the brink of extiction? Was it Yellowstone and government protection? No it was Ted Turner raising them for food! And yes they are tasty, so is Ostrich for that matter.

"its a vastly differnt thing when all you have to eat or will have to eat for days is a can of Spam. "

You do know they can beans and veggies too right?

I just watched a science program trying to explain why the mammals and birds that survived the last big die off, which killed the large part of all species on earth. They at first thought maybe hibernation was the key but no, there were animals that do not hibernate and some birds lived. Most were non meat eating creatures that could tunnel underground. Anyway my point is they didn't eat meat and they lived!

If man had not decided he had to raise cows, pigs sheep, chicken etc the wild grazing animals would never have had a survival issue in the first place.

"Now please stop whining about sport hunting."
Whining? Wow you just gave your opinion the same as i gave mine...but I whine? What you just preach?

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by Hawking
Same as shooting any other animal for "sport."

I just love when people say this as if they are not an animal themselves.

If you are not a Vegan your above verbal diarrhea is null and void!

Do you kill your vegetables before you eat them? Or do you eat them alive?

Originally posted by jude11
I've heard that some will pay up to $100,000 to hunt humans. Maybe that's what should happen to these hunters. Put them in the scope of a rifle.

That will generate enough to help protect the innocent and helpless animals and rid the World of scum like these "Humans."

Exactly!

Most people don't understand that hunting/fishing licenses are what pay for conservation.

You don't have to approve of hunting - - - to understand the reality. Not only does it provide fresh meat - - - but the fees probably save the habitat the giraffes live in.