Jesus Was Not Religious, so why hate Christians because of what religion has done?

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
I am here to tell all the members on this board that continually hate on Christians because you have a hatred against religion one thing. Christianity is not a RELIGION it's a RELATIONSHIP.... With our one and only savior, Jesus Christ. God's way to reach man, is through Christ.

What you've set up is the classical false dichotomy fallacy; more spefically it's white and black thinking, a subset so-to-speak. In actuallity, it can be a religion and a relationship; albeit an imaginary one.

With some critical thinking skills, it becomes obvious that your relationship requires religion to answer life's basic questions. Religion propogates the idea of a personal relationship with [your] God. Religion encourages you to witness and indoctrinate others into your belief structure. Religion reinforces that God speaks directly, or indirectly to you through various means. It's a religion, period.

Not to mention your phrase is full of equivocation and vagueness. What does the "it" even mean? Which thousands of denominations is correct? What kind of relationship are we referring to here? You are really setting up a false definition of religion when you equivocally say it's "not a religion" to de-emphasize the importance of the word.

Please stop using this cliche, it's blatantly false.

reply to post by FugitiveSoul

Christ isn't Salvation in a gift wrapped box.

Prove it.

You're not ready to get this yet. You're not spiritually awakened enough to see through the centuries of programming that Christianity has poured into your subconscious.

I have not lived for centuries I am less than 30 earth years old so how could that be so?

Like I said, you're getting there, but you've got a lonnnnnnnng way to go before you're even ready to comprehend what "god" is, and you're never going to make it if you can't learn to accept knowledge.

Would love to know who God is according to you... Let me guess some sort of divine consciousness that can be found in a rock and a tree right?

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

50 years is absolutely nothing, its peanuts as far as history is concerned. Obviously your poor knowledge of history and theology is a reason why you think 50 years is a long time, ether that or you are just looking to argue anything I say because you are trying to win some sort of self righteous competition in your mind.

The average person lived to be 40 back then. 40. A life time. 50 = greater than a lifetime, meaning that most of the books were handed down stories since the people who witnessed Christ's alleged life were likely in their 20s or 30s when he was allegedly killed. Get it?

As an atheist the greatest victory the devil has won over you is to convince you that he doesn't exist.

Not an atheist. I just don't drink kool-aid. My interpretation of "god" differs from yours. Sorry you've failed to understand and respect this.

I know exactly what I'm talking about... Do you?

Well considering Christianity invented the Devil from several mistranslations of the original Greek NT and Hebrew OT, I'd say yes I do know what I'm talking about. The fact that you don't yet understand that the NT is incredibly flawed as a canon is quickly eroding away your credibility on this subject all together.

I would like to see those verses that teach fear and hate in Genesis because I think you just made that up.

Does the bible not teach that mankind was punished for seeking knowledge in the Garden in Eden?

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Christ isn't Salvation in a gift wrapped box.

Prove it.

You're the one with the outlandish claim. You prove that he is. I'll wait.

I have not lived for centuries I am less than 30 earth years old so how could that be so?

You don't have to live for centuries for centuries of programmed doctrine to affect you. When your parents and their parents, and their parents have been taught something, true or not, it becomes their reality. I would suggest you look into Plato's allegory 'the Cave.' Your reality is the construct of evil men. It is you who has been deceived. Now that I know your roundabout age, I'm beginning to understand your ignorance.

Would love to know who God is according to you... Let me guess some sort of divine consciousness that can be found in a rock and a tree right?

As I said, you're not ready yet.

reply to post by novastrike81


Black and white is a good thing. It means you acknowledge truth is absolute and not relative.

It's better to be certain about your beliefs then to be unsure where you could find your self in error.

Critical thinking is a key tenant to becoming a Christian.

reply to post by FugitiveSoul

You're the one with the outlandish claim. You prove that he is. I'll wait.

You don't want to believe in the bible or God, because you want to be like satan and become your own God. This is the exact mentality of a narcissist. And for this reason no amount of evidence will be sufficient for you.

You don't have to live for centuries for centuries of programmed doctrine to affect you. When your parents and their parents, and their parents have been taught something, true or not, it becomes their reality. I would suggest you look into Plato's allegory 'the Cave.' Your reality is the construct of evil men. It is you who has been deceived. Now that I know your roundabout age, I'm beginning to understand your ignorance.

I haven't been indoctrinated, my parents were agnostic. So this common misconception by someone not using critical thinking. I became a believer in on my own standing because I seeked truth and anyone who seeks truth will find Jesus Christ. My reality is the truth, yours in a fictitious lie. Only evil men say the bible was created by evil men, and you seem to have believed them.

As I said, you're not ready yet.

Well I know who God is, and that's Jesus Christ. And you can't give me an answer because you don't know who God is or what he came to do. Or you do know and your suppressing the truth.

reply to post by FugitiveSoul

The average person lived to be 40 back then

Psalm 90:10 The days of our years [are] threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength [they be] fourscore years, yet [is] their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

a "score" is twenty

so 70 years, unless the person is strong, then 80 years.

This Psalm was written before Christ, and times were even tougher then, so much for the nurses theory.

Isn't it remarkable that their life span is pretty much what we look at today?

Not an atheist. I just don't drink kool-aid. My interpretation of "god" differs from yours. Sorry you've failed to understand and respect this.

So you have created your own God that suits you in your mind, this is called the sin of idolatry. And for your information I don't drink cool-aid ether, I just know when to recognize truth when I see it because I don't let my pride get in the way of truth. If I am a dirty rotten sinner not deserving of anything then so be it. Truth is nourishing.

Well considering Christianity invented the Devil from several mistranslations of the original Greek NT and Hebrew OT, I'd say yes I do know what I'm talking about. The fact that you don't yet understand that the NT is incredibly flawed as a canon is quickly eroding away your credibility on this subject all together.

More falsehoods.

Does the bible not teach that mankind was punished for seeking knowledge in the Garden in Eden?

Man was punished for disobeying God. We are his property and we deserve to be punished for it.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by FugitiveSoul


There is nothing Christ taught that wasn't already practiced in a vast number of pagan societies long before even Noah set sail on his little barge of barnyard critters.

Wrong, salvation is a free gift and grace has no check list before you are given it. All you need is trust and belief in the savior.

....

How it that even an answer?

Q "Do you know what 2+2 is?"

A "God told me that birds like to eat insects"

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

You don't want to believe in the bible or God, because you want to be like satan and become your own God. This is the exact mentality of a narcissist. And for this reason no amount of evidence will be sufficient for you.

What don't you understand about the word satan? It's not a name or a being. Until you get that, stop using the word.

I haven't been indoctrinated, my parents were agnostic. So this common misconception by someone not using critical thinking. I became a believer in on my own standing because I seeked truth and anyone who seeks truth will find Jesus Christ. My reality is the truth, yours in a fictitious lie. Only evil men say the bible was created by evil men, and you seem to have believed them.

Anyone who "seeks the truth" will not find it in the Bible. The bible is a canon, much like Grimm's Fairytales. They are moral teachings, not a biography of the history of man, and since you cannot prove that they are 100% true, we'll leave this portion of the discussion here.

Well I know who God is, and that's Jesus Christ. And you can't give me an answer because you don't know who God is or what he came to do.

Why is "god" afraid to reveal himself as he is? Why does he need to arrive on Earth in human form, teach people about himself, talk to himself during a crucifixion, and then go home? Why the ruse? If he needs deception to get people to follow him, how can [your] god be trusted?
And you think I'm being deceived? Yikes.


reply to post by vogon42

Q "Do you know what 2+2 is?"

A "God told me that birds like to eat insects"

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by FugitiveSoul

 

Does the bible not teach that mankind was punished for seeking knowledge in the Garden in Eden?

Man was punished for disobeying God. We are his property and we deserve to be punished for it.

edit on 14-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

And just where does free will enter this picture?

And, why is all of humanity punished because God made the mistake of sharing Eden with Satan, and then took off for a game of golf with his Archangels, leaving Satan, the liar, alone with Eve and the "poisonous tree", while Eve knew nothing of truth or lies or of "good and evil?

Where does free will enter into a picture of a god that demands blind ignorant obedience, and punishes those who would seek knowledge?

I guess there really is no free will, because I am unable make myself believe what you're pushing at will. I could only lie to you and tell you that you're right, to avoid an argument. It must make you sad to think that your loving god is sending your own agnostic parents to hell.

reply to post by FugitiveSoul

What don't you understand about the word satan? It's not a name or a being. Until you get that, stop using the word.

The word I use doesn't matter whether it be Satan, the devil or Serpent we both know who I'm talking about (Lucifer).

Anyone who "seeks the truth" will not find it in the Bible.

Only if they cannot humble themselves. This is what separates me from you. And I'm not saying I never suffer from the sin of pride, but I don't let it dominate my belief system unlike you.

Why is "god" afraid to reveal himself as he is? Why does he need to arrive on Earth in human form, teach people about himself, talk to himself during a crucifixion, and then go home?

He already has revealed himself and he under noway obligated to answer prayers of the unsaved. This might be the reason when some people pray, nothing happens, because they are not true disciples of Christ and only pray when something bad happens to them in there lives. He is returning but this time will be of God's choosing. Put your trust is the savior and remarkable things will happen.

If he needs deception to get people to follow him, how can [your] god be trusted?

Christ cannot deceive, he is the very essence of Truth itself. The actual moral we called truth comes from him. Without Christ there would be no truth in this world.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

The word I use doesn't matter whether it be Satan, the devil or Serpent we both know who I'm talking about (Lucifer).

You mean the Lucifer that doesn't appear in the OT at all, that was added by Christian scribes years later? The same "Lucifer" that was mentioned only once, but wrongly, since the verse he was mentioned in was discussing a fallen Babylonian King and not an Angel. In fact the King wasn't even named, and so the Christians just blatantly added the name into the verse, completely changing the context of the verse and your interpretation on reality. Why would a latin name be in a Hebrew book?

This is exactly what I've been telling you. You've just proved my point and discredited yourself in one simple sentence. Good job.

Also; Lucifer was a Roman name given to what we now call "Venus." There was no reference of evil or angels in it's creation. Just another example of Christians taking something pagan and putting an "evil" spin on it. When they aren't doing that, they're just adopting pagan traditions and customs outright.

Christian logic:
"If we can take something pagan and make out like we created it, awesome!

If we can't... then it's evil!!!"

Only if they cannot humble themselves. This is what separates me from you. And I'm not saying I never suffer from the sin of pride, but I don't let it dominate my belief system unlike you.

I am dominated by nothing. That's how we differ. You kneel before a god you can't see, who doesn't answer his voice mail, and who doesn't make himself known at all. I kneel before nothing, yet I am humble in the world.

He already has revealed himself and he under noway obligated to answer prayers of the unsaved. This might be the reason when some people pray, nothing happens, because they are not true disciples of Christ and only pray when something bad happens to them in there lives. He is returning but this time will be of God's choosing. Put your trust is the savior and remarkable things will happen.

I've never had a "prayer" go unanswered. So that throws your argument out the window, doesn't it?
When you pray, you do so to a deity. When I pray, I focus my thoughts and energy into what I want or need, and I don't have to "hope." I know it will be fulfilled/answered.

Christ cannot deceive, he is the very essence of Truth itself. The actual moral we called truth comes from him. Without Christ there would be no truth in this world.

That's your opinion, and as wrong as it is, you're welcome to have it, good sir. Enjoy the bliss.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by FugitiveSoul


What don't you understand about the word satan? It's not a name or a being. Until you get that, stop using the word.

The word I use doesn't matter whether it be Satan, the devil or Serpent we both know who I'm talking about (Lucifer).


.

Just like if I say
Christianity
we all know I'm talking about RELIGION.

Why the double standard here?

Jesus Was Not Religious

Yes he was.

See here
He was in the habit of preaching and teaching in synagogues.

See here as well
He was in the habit of teaching in the temple courts every day.

Luke 4:16
Jesus "entered the synagogue in Nazareth on the Sabbath as was his habit of doing".


The dude went to church on sunday ...
(well .. he went to the synagogue on saturdays ... but you know what I mean)

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Critical thinking would be answering the questions honestly that I presented. All you've done is dodge my statements and present Pascal's Wager. Now stop being hypocrital, please.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

That video?

Well why not let a guy way more dedicated than I talk about that.

i get a good laugh when christians say their religion isn't a religion.

lol

Three hours and no rebuttal? I'm shocked. It usually takes a mod closing a thread to end our little debates. What gives?

Originally posted by Lysergic

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

That video?

Well why not let a guy way more dedicated than I talk about that.

I agree with most of the video. But the end, when quoting matthew. This is an instance of Jesus talking like a mystic. Jesus brought ideas that were completely at opposition to the Priest of the day. (God is within, not na temple). And Christ was teaching to turn inwards and find the peace within. This can not be done if you're attached to others people expectations(father/mother). So you really don't deserve it if you'd rather please others, because of you're attachment. And Christ is refering to himself as the inner nature. Much like buddhist say the buddha is within everyone, you could also say the Christ is. When the ego is dissolved that is who is left.