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Jesus Was Not Religious, so why hate Christians because of what religion has done?

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posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by FugitiveSoul
 




I didn't imply your faith crisis was in your "god", but instead in your religion... Christianity. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


I don't associate myself with any religion. As far as I'm concerned the Bible is an accurate historical record and Jesus is a living person. No religion here that I can see myself apart of.



I follow the same teachings as Christ, but they aren't "his." He didn't pen them, in fact they predate him by thousands of years. He was just spreading the word. My beliefs allow me to experience Paradise here and now. I don't have to wait for payment.


Not Christ's teachings? He didn't pen them? they predate him? these are all words spoken of an unsaved sinner my friend. You may get your reward now but it will only be temporal, when you die hell is the only destination for an unsaved soul. Your beliefs mean absolutely nothing if they are not true. When you become a Christian you get a down payment of the holy spirit.




-Live by his rules.
-Accept only him as lord/savior.


Jesus sets you free from your bondage of sin. Yes the bible has some rules on how to live your life the best way (I would call them guidelines), but without them we would be making up our own rules and without morality from God it would be one big mess. What is better, trusting God or man? The Bible isn't mainly about you though and what you should be doing. It's about God and what he has done. As you see society turning there backs to God we see more crime and more horrible things happening. Just look what they teach children in school these days, that we're nothing more than animals and that we're going to be nothing more than plant food when we die... What kind of message is that sending the youth?
edit on 14-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Yep I think Trust is a much better word to be used than Faith because when people think of faith they tend to associate it with blind faith, which is not the case. We have been given evidence of God and the authenticity of the bible and this is what supports our faith, this is how we know what we believe is true. This is what separates Christianity from all other faiths. Christianity has the most compelling evidence.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 



When you become a Christian you get a down payment of the holy spirit.


YES!! And as the apostles declared that is the "surety" of our salvation through Christ. It's impossible to do works to please God without the leading and guiding of the Holy Spirit. Paul argues that we receive that at the time we first become Christians, Galatians chapter 5 I believe. Imagine this:

"Okay God, I've sufficiently cleaned myself up, now your Holy Spirit can come in!" lol


When people don't understand God's grace it always erodes to Legalism and religion.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by FugitiveSoul
 



-Live by his rules.
-Accept only him as lord/savior.


"Believe" or "accept" fuzzies up the gospel message. It's TRUSTING in Him as your Lord and Savior.

Example:

I "believe" the stock market exists, I don't "trust" it enough to invest my own money in it.

Religious people believe in Jesus, and even believe He is the Lord and Savior of men, but they don't trust in Him personally to save them, they trust in themselves to save themselves by diligence and effort to make themselves holy and righteous before God. They basically trust themselves for their own salvation instead of trusting in the Living Savior.



Thesaurus

believe
[verb]
1 I don't believe you: be convinced by, trust, have confidence in, consider honest, consider truthful.
2 do you believe that story? regard as true, accept, be convinced by, give credence to, credit, trust, put confidence in; informal swallow, buy, go for.


Semantics aside; the problem, you'll find, that most people have with Christianity is that you're not really "trusting" Christ, you're trusting people's diluted interpretations of Christ, as everything written about him was written lonnng after his death. Everything people "know" about Christ is from writing by men and the hopes that they were telling the 100% truth.
I'll agree that heaven can only be achieved by men and not by God or saving, but we differ on where it is we think heaven resides. If I am god, and the architect of my own reality, I don't need Christ or a deity to find or achieve paradise.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Yep I think Trust is a much better word to be used than Faith because when people think of faith they tend to associate it with blind faith, which is not the case. We have been given evidence of God and the authenticity of the bible and this is what supports our faith, this is how we know what we believe is true. This is what separates Christianity from all other faiths. Christianity has the most compelling evidence.


It's "blind" to those people because they are ignorant to the reasons we believe and trust in Him. I'm sure our faith is "blind" to them.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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Will this one work for you

dictionary.reference.com...


1. the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches.


or this one

www.merriam-webster.com...


1: the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies
2 : conformity to the Christian religion


I think you guys are confused. But I'm willing to listen to any points you may have on why christianity is not a religion.

What is your perspective?



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by FugitiveSoul
 



Semantics aside;


Really now? So are you saying if I believe in something I also trust in it by default? That's not "saving faith" in Christ, that's merely intellectual acceptance to the facts. Saving faith in Christ is not believing that it's possible for Him to save you, it's trusting in Him that He already has.

That's why the terms "believe" and "faith" fuzzy up the gospel message. Many people believe Jesus died on the cross for mankind in some general sense, but they have no trust in Him as their Savior. They trust in themselves as their own savior.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by vogon42
 


I've already affirmed that the secular world labels Christianity a "religion". So what's the point of linking secular dictionaries? My argument is that Biblical Christianity isn't another "religion". It's not about what we do or abstain from doing to make ourselves acceptable to God, it's about what Christ already did to make us acceptable to God.

He gets all the glory, not us. He saved us, we cannot save ourselves.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by FugitiveSoul
 


50 years after his death is incredibly short in history standards. That is NOT "long after his death" at all. The only reason it took this long was because early Christians were being killed and they couldn't write it down until they had a chance too.

I think you fail to understand what being a Christian is about.

The only way to heaven is through Jesus, and if you die with your sins not being covered by his blood you will perish. By believing man can get to heaven by good works, makes you worse than 99% of religions.

Man can never become God, that is the ultimate lie that the devil used to get man into a fallen state.

Genesis 3:5 - "For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Don't be deceived! this is the lie behind almost all pagan and satanic false ideologies.
edit on 14-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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Ask yourself this secular folks.

Does religion make people full of humble joy for what Christ did for them or does religion make people either A: self-righteous douchebags who look at everyone else as inferior to them because they don't follow all the rules they do, or B: Make people depressed, self-described failures because they are honest with themselves and admit they can't keep every rule perfectly?



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Not Christ's teachings? He didn't pen them? they predate him? these are all words spoken of an unsaved sinner my friend. You may get your reward now but it will only be temporal, when you die hell is the only destination for an unsaved soul. Your beliefs mean absolutely nothing if they are not true. When you become a Christian you get a down payment of the holy spirit.


There is nothing Christ taught that wasn't already practiced in a vast number of pagan societies long before even Noah set sail on his little barge of barnyard critters. My "reward" is eternal, as is my energy. The paradise I create in this world will carry over into the next. You're robbing yourself of Heaven in the here and now because you've been programmed to think you have to fulfill a checklist of do's and don'ts to achieve the next level. If you need to believe that, that's fine. I know you don't get it. You didn't get it in the past threads where theology has been discussed and challenged. You want to be a "disciple" of Christ, good. Learn away. The rest of the world understands that at some point every student will surpass his teacher. The funny thing is, every teacher wants this. If their students don't become at least as educated as them, then they have failed. If they surpass their teachers, and the next line of students surpass them, and so on and so on, then mankind can achieve something greater than a posthumous reward.

You're getting there. You've finally let go of religion. Now we have to unteach everything you've learned about "god" from man and you'll be well on your way to being a truly spiritual person. Good luck.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by FugitiveSoul
 


50 years after his death is incredibly short in history standards. That is NOT "long after his death" at all. The only reason it took this long was because early Christians were being killed and they couldn't write it down until they had a chance too.


50 years was longer than the average lifetime back then, especially considering that nothing was written between his death and then, meaning you're putting your 100% true faith behind a minimum of 50 year old memory.



Genesis 3:5 - "For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."


You cannot use the bible as an alibi for itself. That's called a conflict of interests.



Man can never become God, that is the ultimate lie that the devil used to get man into a fallen state.


The lie is believing you have to believe in a devil at all. That's a Christian creation, which has served its purpose well to keep you in line.



Don't be deceived! this is the lie behind almost all pagan and satanic false ideologies.


You don't even understand what you're talking about here. You're just spewing out generic Christian hate speech that stems from your ignorance of truth. I don't blame you. The bible teaches you to fear and hate knowledge from the very beginning of the book of Genesis. It's cool.


edit on 14-1-2012 by FugitiveSoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by FugitiveSoul
 




There is nothing Christ taught that wasn't already practiced in a vast number of pagan societies long before even Noah set sail on his little barge of barnyard critters.


Wrong, salvation is a free gift and grace has no check list before you are given it. All you need is trust and belief in the savior.



You're robbing yourself of Heaven in the here and now because you've been programmed to think you have to fulfill a checklist of do's and don'ts to achieve the next level.


Wrong, salvation is a free gift and grace has no check list before you are given it. All you need is trust and belief in the savoir. Nothing I gain in this world now is better than eternal life. you are robbing yourself of heaven because you've believed the lie of the devil that was first mentioned in Genesis 3:5.



The paradise I create in this world will carry over into the next.


Not according to Jesus. I believe him over you. Mark 8:36 - What does it Profit a man, if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul?



My "reward" is eternal, as is my energy.


If you consider hell a reward then so be it.



You didn't get it in the past threads where theology has been discussed and challenged.


The only theology you teach is satanic new age lies. The biggest red flag I see with what you say is that you think you can become higher God. Exactly what satan himself said.



You're getting there. You've finally let go of religion. Now we have to unteach everything you've learned about "god" from man and you'll be well on your way to being a truly spiritual person. Good luck.


Without God you are spiritually dead. And you do not know God. You are like the blind trying to teach the blind. It doesn't turn out pretty.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

That's why the terms "believe" and "faith" fuzzy up the gospel message. Many people believe Jesus died on the cross for mankind in some general sense, but they have no trust in Him as their Savior. They trust in themselves as their own savior.


Many people, assuming they believe the story at all, know Christ died on a stauros, which, etymologically speaking, meant stake or post and not "cross." Lumber was an expensive material in that part of the world back then, and they weren't going to waste two posts on someone when one would suffice. They would often hang two people from the same one [one on each side].

Also; they don't trust in him as their savior because they know that the metaphor of trust was in reference to follow his teachings, not literally "follow" him as any form of deity. His teachings were a guide to salvation, not him literally.
Follow what he taught and you'll achieve paradise in this life, not after death. The catch is, everyone has to follow the same set of morals for this plan to work, which is why we have patches of good places on this Earth and patches of violent evil places. The irony is, Christianity is almost never found in the "good" places.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Ask yourself this secular folks.

Does religion make people full of humble joy for what Christ did for them or does religion make people either A: self-righteous douchebags who look at everyone else as inferior to them because they don't follow all the rules they do, or B: Make people depressed, self-described failures because they are honest with themselves and admit they can't keep every rule perfectly?


Also secular folks, before you answer this, remember there are other religions out there besides christianity.

So the "humble joy for what christ did" part does not really apply to the specific question of "Does religion make people......"



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by FugitiveSoul
 




50 years was longer than the average lifetime back then, especially considering that nothing was written between his death and then, meaning you're putting your 100% true faith behind a minimum of 50 year old memory.


50 years is absolutely nothing, its peanuts as far as history is concerned. Obviously your poor knowledge of history and theology is a reason why you think 50 years is a long time, ether that or you are just looking to argue anything I say because you are trying to win some sort of self righteous competition in your mind.



You cannot use the bible as an alibi for itself. That's called a conflict of interests.


I used that verse because its sums up the deceptive ideology that most New Agers and Satanists adhere too that they can one day become Gods. This is exactly the first lie the devil told man kind, and you believe it!



The lie is believing you have to believe in a devil at all. That's a Christian creation, which has served its purpose well to keep you in line.


As an atheist the greatest victory the devil has won over you is to convince you that he doesn't exist.



You don't even understand what you're talking about here. You're just spewing out generic Christian hate speech that stems from your ignorance of truth.


I know exactly what I'm talking about... Do you?



The bible teaches you to fear and hate knowledge from the very beginning of the book of Genesis. It's cool.


I would like to see those verses that teach fear and hate in Genesis because I think you just made that up.
edit on 14-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 




Yes he was.. Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Ask yourself this secular folks.

Does religion make people full of humble joy for what Christ did for them or does religion make people either A: self-righteous douchebags who look at everyone else as inferior to them because they don't follow all the rules they do, or B: Make people depressed, self-described failures because they are honest with themselves and admit they can't keep every rule perfectly?


This is exactly what the OP of this thread is doing. He's judging other Christians, mocking the institution of the church of Christianity and separating himself from the body of his peers, while patting himself on the back for having the true faith, and cursing all others to eternal torture by this so called loving God of his.

I don't see any "humble joy" in this thread at all, sorry, ultimate fail!

edit on 14-1-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


As I said, you don't get it. You believe the Bible is 100% true and not a metaphor at all, and that is your greatest flaw, and is the source of why your logic collapses in on itself. Christ isn't Salvation in a gift wrapped box. What he taught, which were primarily Eastern philosophies, is where the salvation comes from.

You're not ready to get this yet. You're not spiritually awakened enough to see through the centuries of programming that Christianity has poured into your subconscious. The fact that you still fear and recognize the devil is evidence if this. Like I said, you're getting there, but you've got a lonnnnnnnng way to go before you're even ready to comprehend what "god" is, and you're never going to make it if you can't learn to accept knowledge. The fact that you still fear knowledge is terribly frightening.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by FugitiveSoul

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

That's why the terms "believe" and "faith" fuzzy up the gospel message. Many people believe Jesus died on the cross for mankind in some general sense, but they have no trust in Him as their Savior. They trust in themselves as their own savior.


Follow what he taught and you'll achieve paradise in this life, not after death.


If you actually followed what he taught you would be a Christian. Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6



The catch is, everyone has to follow the same set of morals for this plan to work, which is why we have patches of good places on this Earth and patches of violent evil places.


Morals come from Jesus.



The irony is, Christianity is almost never found in the "good" places.


Could you back that up with any evidence?



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