Open challenge to christians....

Jesus said....


For verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
-Matthew 17:20

Now I am sure many of the christians here have faith larger than a mustard seed.

So why not show a demonstration of it and ask a mountain, or a hill... or at least a mustard seed to "remove hence to a yonder place" and show us non-christians that you guys are for real. This shouldn't be difficult for you all, considering that the bible that you follow declares that nothing shall be impossible for you all.

In case your faith is NOT "as a grain of mustard seed".... and if you would rather say that its all "figurative", I would really appreciate it, if you could tell me what basis one is supposed to declare a verse to be figurative or literal.... or do you just declare the difficult ones "figurative"???

At least this way we would all get to know who among the christians lack faith even as much "as a grain of mustard seed". Well, obviously, they will be destroyed by Jesus once he gets here and burn in hell for all eternity along with the muslims, hindus, buddhists etc.


Thanks!

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

Now I am sure many of the christians here have faith larger than a mustard seed.

I actually have a question for you... Faith is a component of our consciousness, which in itself is something that we do not completely understand. Being what it is, how can we measure what we call consciousness- which is a seemingly incorporeal phenomenon- and compare it with some tangible like a mustard seed?

Originally posted by Mapkar

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

Now I am sure many of the christians here have faith larger than a mustard seed.

I actually have a question for you... Faith is a component of our consciousness, which in itself is something that we do not completely understand. Being what it is, how can we measure what we call consciousness- which is a seemingly incorporeal phenomenon- and compare it with some tangible like a mustard seed?

Ask Jesus.

I think it's a valid question.

So many claim their faith is so strong - but the very book they claim is the word of God proves otherwise.

This is a huge contradiction. I've never seen a Christian move a mountain, hill, mustard seed, or flip the page of their Bible using faith alone. In fact, I've never seen faith in the Christian god do anything useful or practical whatsoever.

I have seen faith cause hate, hateful speech, condemnation, refusal to accept science and proven reality, death, torture, and waste.

I'm very curious to hear the responses of the faithful.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


All religions are figurative of your imagination or the collective imagination
religions are for people that refuse to believe we humans dont know everything
relegions are great fuel for starting wars and killing each other..
you go relegion

believe what you want.. hopefully it'll help ya when the end comes.

reply to post by RealAmericanPatriot

Hey Moderators! Troll Alert!

This is not trolling.

Its right there in your bible. Read Matthew 17:20
And this is the religion section of ATS.

Or are we to assume you dont even have faith as big as a mustard seed, thereby rendering you unable to move mountains.... like Jesus said you could, only if you had enough faith.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


That was a serious question, thank you.

My point is, if we can't measure something incorporeal like consciousness then we can't measure faith because it is an exercise of a conscious process. If that is the case then to answer the original poster's question, the phrase he posted would in fact be figurative.

If you understood that the Bible is brimming with incredible poetry, full of metaphors and imagery used to explain importance and vastness of the statements made, you'll find nothing puzzling about the mustard seed allegory.

It's akin to somebody saying that they will punch your lights out. They don't literally mean they'll come over to your house and punch all of your lightbulbs.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Mapkar

to answer the original poster's question, the phrase he posted would in fact be figurative.

I'd like to hear exaclty what phrases in the bible are "figurative" and what phrases are "literal".

From what Ive been seeing all my life, christians love to cherry pick whats figurative/literal based on how easy it is for them to handle.

something like "X or Y will be destroyed" or "thou shall not do ____" is taken as being literal, because its easy for them to imagine or accomplish.

But something like "have faith, move mountains" or "sin with eyes, rip out your eyeballs" is suddenly all figurative.

Why is that???

I think you ask a very valid question, OP, and I eagerly await the answers of those who believe.
2nd.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


St.Simon the shoemaker.

reply to post by ManjushriPrajna

If you understood that the Bible is brimming with incredible poetry, full of metaphors and imagery used to explain importance and vastness of the statements made, you'll find nothing puzzling about the mustard seed allegory.

It's akin to somebody saying that they will punch your lights out. They don't literally mean they'll come over to your house and punch all of your lightbulbs.

I know that the bible is full of poetry and metaphors. The problem is with christians who pick and choose whats literal or not.

On a different note.... Id like to point out that most, if not all, christians will call the images in your avatar "satanic", "of the devil" etc. because it does not comply with what what they believe in.

If your mind is still enough you can break rock with your finger. Does that answer the question?

reply to post by filosophia


nice vid.

Problem is, OP is challenging christians to order things to move around based on faith.... not martial arts.

Or wait, are you suggesting that martial artists are actually breaking things based on christian faith....and not chi-energy or whatever it is that they use?

It matters little what sort of miracle is performed right before the eyes of a skeptic they'll find a reason to doubt it and cast it aside stating it was a "trick" or "not significant enough to make them believe"...

What you ask for is to see someone "turn a page of the bible without lifting a finger"... and if that's done then what... you'll suddenly fall to your knees and repent... somehow I doubt it... instead you'll be looking for a sting and tape... and when you don't find that you'll say there had to be a fan or open window nearby or that it's some sort of "slight of hand"...

I'll never understand why it is that so many fear religion so fiercely that they'll go out of their way to attack others for having beliefs instead of just letting them be but in turn complain if those who have faith espouse their beliefs...

It was all of two days ago a follower of Christ who puts John 3:16 under his eyes and is voraciously belittled for doing so was an 8.5 point underdog in a game no one thought he could possibly win after losing three straight games (one of which was to a team that is beyond pathetic) threw for 316 yards with an average of 31.6 yards per attempt against the leagues top defense...

Depending on which side of the fence you're on that's a "miracle"... but I know... those of faith are simply "reading into it too much" right...

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


To have a mustard seed of faith is to actually abide by all the commandments and be a good person. Doing this is considered to be the smallest amount of faith, if you had more you would not need to worry about your job or society because it says God would help feed you and protect you. Basically you would be roaming the world preaching the word and that would probably be the max amount of faith. The truth is that going to heaven is hard, many Christians who say they are christian are not truly christian. If you had a grain of faith then you would have at least abide by the commandments, which says in the bible that it is expected of you which in turn is like having a grain of faith if you only follow the commandments. I myself am not even close to such faith, I hope I will gain enough faith to follow all the commandments at least. The sad thing is most Christians don't even follow Sabbath on the correct day and breaking one commandment is like breaking them all, it is Saturday.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by filosophia

 

nice vid.

Problem is, OP is challenging christians to order things to move around based on faith.... not martial arts.

Or wait, are you suggesting that martial artists are actually breaking things based on christian faith....and not chi-energy or whatever it is that they use?

This is a straw man, allow me to explain. If i break rocks with explosives, you will say i am cheating because i use a machine. if i use my hands, you accuse me of cheating because i did not use my mind. if i use my mind to destroy, alter, transform, or ignore the idea of a rock, you accuse me of cheating by not operating in the material world.

therefore, it is a straw man because you set up in your mind an immaterial force that can not do anything, then you ask for it to do something material which it cant do, then you somehow connect this to a chritians fault.