Open challenge to christians....

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by SwissMarked

 

I must say, I find it rather Ironic how none of the "bible only" christians have been ignoring this challenge.

I dont think it is ironic because your 'open' challenge is actually a closed challenge to only people who take the bible 100 percent literally, which most people do not, even most christians do not take it that literally. and yet i still answered the question multiple times the way a christian 'should' answer it.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by SwissMarked

 

You do know that Christianity has Eastern roots correct...

I would'nt mind if Christianity had eastern roots... thats besides the point.
I am addressing the "bible only" christians who believe everything else other than christianity including eastern religions and philosophies are "satanic".

I must say, I find it rather Ironic how none of the "bible only" christians have been ignoring this challenge.

Alright... so you have a beef with someone in particular and were just trying to pick a fight... because to be quite honest... even most "Christian Churches" (aside from those idiot "non denominational" jagoffs) aren't "bible only" churches anymore...

I also take it you meant to say "I find it ironic how (strike the "none of") the 'bible only' Christians have been ignoring this challenge"...

Anyway... unless anyone wants to organize that "one miracle"... I believe I'm done here...

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Once upon a time there was a Colosseum in Rome where Christians were fed to beasts, burned at the stake, and martyred for their Faith in Jesus the Christ of God. So powerful was this testimony of Faith to those in attendance that the name and fame of Jesus spread, faith increased, and inevitably the cultural Mountain that is Rome was moved in a very real way affecting the history of the world as we know it.

A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and none shall be given unto it for Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Clearly we see an allegory set in the context of the disciples inability to cast out a harmful spirit vexing a young boy and not in the context of moving a literal mountain. Although, the hearts of men can be the hardest and most immovable things in the world, but by the example of Faith those mountains too can be moved.

reply to post by SwissMarked

Plain and simple... you want a Christian to perform a great miracle... fine... every doubter of every religion as well as all of you that are "too smart to believe in God" get together and come up with one miracle that will shut you all up for all of eternity and I'll perform it myself with the understanding that anyone that requests a second miracle from that point on... that doubts the miracle... or questions how it was performed will be instantly smote by a faithful follower of Christ on the spot...

That's it? "You go first and then shut up for all eternity and then I personally will perform a miracle." That's all you got?
Lame.

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi

 

I dont put much faith in what anonymous writers say, and the king james bible was edited by a king, not a very trustworthy profession.

Me neither. But they do. The Christians.
So, if they believe Jesus INDEED SAID THAT - I am awaiting some of them to begin moving the mountains.

Well the christian nation loves war and blowing stuff up and they usually say they go to war because god told them to do it, so, that 'faith' moves mountains.

reply to post by filosophia

already answered the op question: moses parted the red sea, jesus healed the sick, so according to the bible all these things are possible, that is at least the textbook answer.

EXACTLY, my point! These things are possible! Im sure its possible for you too!!! Now give us a demonstration of Matthew 17:20 and ask a mountain to move. Log off ATS and bring that bible verse to reality, as the challenge dares you, pal.

If you cant... then well... it obviously means you dont have enough faith, as the bible teaches.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Can you perform brain surgery? No? then surely brain surgery must be a mythical act of magic then right? Just because you cant do something does not mean it is impossible. I told you many ways to move a mountain, yet you continue to ask for more. Your craving is unquenchable. It is like the parable of the arrow, if you get struck by an arrow do you first ask who shot it or do you remove it? If this was a real life situation you would forego climbing the mountain and instead wave a bible in the air and call christians fools because the mountain would not move. Then when someone tried to give you advice, you would say you want a less intelligent christian to stand before you and agree that everything you say is true and you are their lord and savior.

you are right that i cant move a mountain, but then again i never had any motivation to, if a mountain got in my way i think learning to climb it would be more efficient than trying to move it with my mind. But then again you dont want my advice, you only want advice from someone you can look down at.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by SwissMarked

 

Plain and simple... you want a Christian to perform a great miracle... fine... every doubter of every religion as well as all of you that are "too smart to believe in God" get together and come up with one miracle that will shut you all up for all of eternity and I'll perform it myself with the understanding that anyone that requests a second miracle from that point on... that doubts the miracle... or questions how it was performed will be instantly smote by a faithful follower of Christ on the spot...

That's it? "You go first and then shut up for all eternity and then I personally will perform a miracle." That's all you got?
Lame.

I'd say what is lame is you claim to be a writer yet entirely lack the ability to comprehend what it is I wrote... I didn't say anything about anyone else performing a miracle...

Let me break it down in even simpler terms for you oh great "writer"... everyone get together... figure one miracle... tell me... I perform... all shut up or die...

Get it... got it... good... thanks for playing genius...

reply to post by filosophia

If this was a real life situation you would forego climbing the mountain and instead wave a bible in the air and call christians fools because the mountain would not move.

OP says points out that the bible claims christians(with faith as big as a mustard seed) can move mountains by asking it to do so.

I am asking for a demonstration of that, according to the bible.

Now, are you a bible following christian? Do you have faith as much as a mustard seed, as the bible says??

If yes, please demonstrate the christian faiths ability to move mountains.
If no... then well.... this thread does not apply to you.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


my very first post was a video demonstrating a man breaking a stone with two fingers. Can you do that? It must not exist then if you cant do it, right?

You may say a pebble is not a mountain, but all things require gradual steps. And in the meantime you need faith so as to not give up.

Besides, faith as a mustard seed is one of those christian passages with heavy buddhist influence. the mustard seed is the inner mind, as in, faith that resembles a mustard seed is a metaphor for how the mind looks during meditation. The upanishads calls the Self the size of a thumb, not literally, but metaphorically as that is what the spirit looks like.

but then again, you only want to talk to literalists, so let me know when you find one.

reply to post by filosophia

you are right that i cant move a mountain,

Whats that? You cant move a mountain? At least, out of faith?
Great....now that you have made it clear in your own words.... let me repeat myself this thread is for bible-following christians, who have faith as much as a mustard seed .

If you think climbing mountains is more efficient than trying to move it with my mind, then be my guest....and leave this discussion to christians who have faith "as a mustard seed".

reply to post by SwissMarked


Typical. Jump to insults and blame the reader for misunderstanding what you meant to say but failed at.
nm....carry on.
I'm no genius, by the way, but thanks for proving my point anyway, Oh Holier and Righteous One.

And you are correct, I DID misinterpret what you wrote. I see it now, you want all the "anti-God" folks to give you one miracle to perform. Thanks for the polite clarification.

I'd vote for the moving a mountain, but I'm not one of those you called out, so it doesn't matter. How many of "them" would have to partake in your challenge for you to walk the walk? I bet there would never be "enough of them" to satisfy you. You'd find a way to say, "Well, genius over there didn't vote. Put your committee back together because you did not poll EVERY PERSON who is 'too smart for God.' Then I'll do it."

Whatever. And you call yourself a Christian. Yup.
I call myself a writer because I write, on a daily basis. Easily proven. You don't have to like what I write for me to keep writing. I'm still a writer.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Again you are judging who is a christian and who isnt. you must be totally ignorant of the fact that the real and true christians were gnostics who believed that God could be accessed individually without the need of a church. That is the only kind of Christian faith that is important. And i do follow the bible, Jesus says to follow two laws, love God and love your fellow man. Neither of those involve moving mountains.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


OP, I am not picking on you, and I am no longer a christian. But having come from a fundmentalist background, I do understand their doctrine.

Besides taking this verse out of context, you are demanding something from christians they can't do no matter how much faith they have. Performing miracles, and moving mountains is done by obedience to the spirit. Not because a christian needs to prove anything to you, me, or anyone else. This is basic doctrine.

The reason the christians are ignoring your thread is because to them you sound like a fool with no understanding of what you're reading.

I personally don't care either way. But you ask. And I have tried to help you understand their mindset.
See my previous post.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by SwissMarked

 

Typical. Jump to insults and blame the reader for misunderstanding what you meant to say but failed at.
nm....carry on.
I'm no genius, by the way, but thanks for proving my point anyway, Oh Holier and Righteous One.

Not sure where "I failed" because you don't know how to read... let me post it again and break it down for you...

Originally posted by SwissMarked
Plain and simple... you want a Christian to perform a great miracle... fine... every doubter of every religion as well as all of you that are "too smart to believe in God" get together and come up with one miracle that will shut you all up for all of eternity and I'll perform it myself with the understanding that anyone that requests a second miracle from that point on... that doubts the miracle... or questions how it was performed will be instantly smote by a faithful follower of Christ on the spot...

That being said... not every pissant with a keyboard and a hardon for Jesus get to demand a miracle... so as I said... gather round all the skeptics... come up with something good... and on 12/12/12 I myself will perform it... and when I do... then you all better get on your knees and beg for forgiveness for your insolence... or deal with the repercussions of your lack of faith...

Clock is ticking... better get organized internet Einsteins...

Hmmm... let me see... every doubter get together and come up with one miracle and I'll perform it myself...

Nope... you should have got it... and obviously I'm not intelligent enough to get what point you were trying to make that I "proved" for you... so if you don't mind expanding that'd be great... thanks in advance...

reply to post by SwissMarked
This is one of the more asanine posts I've read in a while, and man I been around here a couple years now. If you are going to say miracles are real, then the onus is on you to prove your assertion. To say that all the unbelievers need to come together and present you with a miracle to perform is the height of arrogance and hypocrisy, and I'm pretty sure "God" would chuckle at your pride going before your fall. The only miracle I can see you performing would be shutting the hell up.

And on topic, this whole thread is fail. Hey Atheists and religion haters, here's an open challenge: Mind your own beeswax and give us all a break from these troll baiting threads.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by SwissMarked

 

Typical. Jump to insults and blame the reader for misunderstanding what you meant to say but failed at.
nm....carry on.
I'm no genius, by the way, but thanks for proving my point anyway, Oh Holier and Righteous One.

And you are correct, I DID misinterpret what you wrote. I see it now, you want all the "anti-God" folks to give you one miracle to perform. Thanks for the polite clarification.

I'd vote for the moving a mountain, but I'm not one of those you called out, so it doesn't matter. How many of "them" would have to partake in your challenge for you to walk the walk? I bet there would never be "enough of them" to satisfy you. You'd find a way to say, "Well, genius over there didn't vote. Put your committee back together because you did not poll EVERY PERSON who is 'too smart for God.' Then I'll do it.

"

Whatever. And you call yourself a Christian. Yup.
I call myself a writer because I write, on a daily basis. Easily proven. You don't have to like what I write for me to keep writing. I'm still a writer.

edit on 10-1-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

I see you added after I replied... so let me get to the rest...

How about I set the mark at five million... that's a fairly minute percentage of all the disbelievers... I'll even go so far as to go with the consensus of those five million...

I call myself a Gnostic so not only do you have no idea what you're talking about... but you also start sentences with "and" so while you can "prove you're a writer" because you "write, on a daily basis" I'd say keep practicing because you're not very good at it...

Oh... and just because you do something every day that doesn't mean that's what you are... I eat every day that doesn't make me an "eater"... I breathe every minute... that doesn't make me a "breather"... and I take a leak every hour but that doesn't make me a... well... you should get the point... but I'm guessing this too will take further explanation... which goes to prove my point that if someone spent all day performing miracles for every pissant that wants one in order to believe... there still wouldn't be enough time in all of eternity to convert everyone...

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by SwissMarked

 

This is one of the more asanine posts I've read in a while, and man I been around here a couple years now. If you are going to say miracles are real, then the onus is on you to prove your assertion. To say that all the unbelievers need to come together and present you with a miracle to perform is the height of arrogance and hypocrisy, and I'm pretty sure "God" would chuckle at your pride going before your fall. The only miracle I can see you performing would be shutting the hell up.

And on topic, this whole thread is fail. Hey Atheists and religion haters, here's an open challenge: Mind your own beeswax and give us all a break from these troll baiting threads.

Since you've "been around for a couple years" and you see I've made a "couple posts" within the same thread you may want to learn how to use the "quote button" instead of the "reply to" so I know exactly which post is so ASININE (not sure what "asanine" is so I spelled what I figured you meant since there is no such thing as "asanine")

Yes "the onus" is on me to perform the miracle since I stated I would... however as I also stated I could perform miracles all day every day only to have some other jagoff come up and say "that wasn't good enough do another"... I'm not sure what marks that as "the height of arrogance an hypocrisy" but I'm certain you can expand for me...

So far as "God chuckling at my fall" (I'm assuming you mean fail) because of "my pride"... when I say "I" would perform the miracle... I'm simply dumbing it down for those to simple to understand the concept that when Jesus Himself was performing the miracles He didn't claim it was Him that was doing it but quite simply that He was a vessel for God to work through... if you hold that belief anything is possible... if you don't and tell yourself "that isn't possible" you'll never accomplish what it is you set out to do whether it's move a mountain or brush your teeth...

Thanks in advance for your timely reply... can't wait to get slapped with another dose of wisdom...

reply to post by SwissMarked

Nope... you should have got it... and obviously I'm not intelligent enough to get what point you were trying to make that I "proved" for you... so if you don't mind expanding that'd be great... thanks in advance...

You posted a smart^ss reply to the OP which is entitled "Open challenge to Christians." By doing so, you imply that you are a Christian. You did not state you were a Gnostic. You then stated that once you have performed this miraculous feat anyone who challenged or questioned it would be "smote" by a faithful follower.

My choice of style and vocabulary are not your business, unless you wish to become my publisher and editor.

If that were the case, I would say, "No, thank you. I don't wish to work alongside you or take your advice, because you are rude, insulting, and pompous, and demonstrate a poor ability to express yourself intelligently or politely. You show no indication of being supportive of me or my work. Further, I suspect that contracting with you as my editor and representative would shed a poor light on me as well. Respectfully, therefore, I must decline, but thank you sincerely for your offer."

There's your explanation.

reply to post by Klassified

Besides taking this verse out of context, you are demanding something from christians they can't do no matter how much faith they have. Performing miracles, and moving mountains is done by obedience to the spirit.

Well, tough. It says so in the bible.
Or is it meant to be "figurative"....??

If so, the LEAST they can do is at least explain on what basis they declare a verse to be figurative or literal.... as the OP requested.

Obviously they wont... because like I said earlier....christians love to cherry pick whats figurative/literal based on how easy it is for them to handle.

The reason the christians are ignoring your thread is because to them you sound like a fool with no understanding of what you're reading.

This place is chock full of christians who defend every word thats in the bible whenever they can. When they cant, they seem to remain silent and wait fools to rush in and defend them. They know there are plenty of them here.


For the record, I am still waiting for a christian to move a mountain through the faith, as it says in their bible.
Or is it merely figurative? If so, what other major verses are we to conclude as being figurative?