believers in jesus...please explain this..

Originally posted by thepupils
My question that I have yet been able to receive an answer is. "If the first teachings and story of Jesus was written by Saul a.k.a Paul
(Who changed his name, which is sketchy right of the bat)
The first writings were written by Saul/Paul 80 yrs. after Jesus's death/resurection. 80 yrs after Jesus's death! Then there are quotes what jesus said over 80 years BEFORE Saul was born! How does anyone know what a person actually said when that person died almost a century before you were born. Nobody has been able to answer that question (which is one of many) Think about it, how could the first recordings of Jesus be from a man that was born 80+ years after Jesus died. If anyone could answer that question, It would be greatly appreciated.

The reason why you cannot get an answer to your question is because it's based on a few false premises.

1. The first story of Jesus and His teachings were NOT written by Paul. Heck, James began writing before Paul.
2. Saul/Paul most likely was older than Jesus. But even if not, his birth is never mentioned in the Bible.
3. The last book of the Bible, Revelation, was written in 95-96 AD, that's only 60 some years after Christ's resurrection.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Actually, there is a lot of supporting evidence to say the book of revelation was written pre-70 AD, and don't ask me for links, Google is very user friendly.

reply to post by thepupils


People didn't do much reading or writing in those days. Shortage of pens, whatever. Anyway, the bible was first written about 3,500 years ago. Knowledge sharing was passed down through word of mouth before then Don't believe all those martyrs died including all the first apostles except John? Maybe a little reading about Christian catacombs might give you some insight. Their graves had symbols for martyrdom. The story of Saint Philomena and the discovery of her tomb in the catacomb of Saint Priscilla in 1802 might be a good place to look if you need evidence.

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake

 

I'd heard of that loophole before, claiming that both were from the same family within the tribe of Judah, but it's a far stretch considering the source (Matthew and Luke), which were written [anonymously] nearly a hundred years after Jesus' alleged death, and none of this explains why Jesus' birth, life, and death sound so much like the myth of Mithras, which predates Christ by nearly 1,500 years. Actually if you look at who penned most of the bible (Paul), who lived in Tarsus, which was dead center in the middle of Mithraic culture when he was doing his writings, things start to become a little more clear.

edit on 27-12-2011 by FugitiveSoul because: (no reason given)

One of my big questions also. Paul is the first account of jesus in written text. I believe he was influenced by the mithra legend/myth. In the Old Testament it's basically a Jewish supremacy story and that the Jews were "The Chosen Ones" and there struggles and exodus that was lead by Moses. Then the New Testament is all about Jesus and that Jesus died for every gentile. I think it was to get a larger following especially from non-jewish people. Old Testament= Fear God, He/She is a merciful God, Obey New Testament=Son of God died for you, follow the life of the savior Jesus of the Nazareth. The two Christian books of the bible go from obey god's law or fear damnation. Then the new testament goes to Follow the Son of God, He died for you. He is the Messiah.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by thepupils
My question that I have yet been able to receive an answer is. "If the first teachings and story of Jesus was written by Saul a.k.a Paul
(Who changed his name, which is sketchy right of the bat)
The first writings were written by Saul/Paul 80 yrs. after Jesus's death/resurection. 80 yrs after Jesus's death! Then there are quotes what jesus said over 80 years BEFORE Saul was born! How does anyone know what a person actually said when that person died almost a century before you were born. Nobody has been able to answer that question (which is one of many) Think about it, how could the first recordings of Jesus be from a man that was born 80+ years after Jesus died. If anyone could answer that question, It would be greatly appreciated.

The reason why you cannot get an answer to your question is because it's based on a few false premises.

1. The first story of Jesus and His teachings were NOT written by Paul. Heck, James began writing before Paul.
2. Saul/Paul most likely was older than Jesus. But even if not, his birth is never mentioned in the Bible.
3. The last book of the Bible, Revelation, was written in 95-96 AD, that's only 60 some years after Christ's resurrection.

Thank you for the response, but I still have a question: If the first writtings of Jesus was written by James how did James Quote Jesus? How in the new testament are there actual quotes of what Jesus said if whoever actually wrote Jesus's quotes?

A list of the most commonly misunderstood words of the bible

- Stauros - (star-ohs)
Originally thought to mean "cross"
Literal meaning: a post or stake
related to "Stauroo", which meant to "fasten."

- Apostle - (apostolos)
Literal meaning: ambassador, emissary, envoy, diplomat
Word breakdown: from “apo” (away) + “stello” (dispatch, send) = one who is sent away or dispatched
This word commonly referred to foreign ambassadors.

- Church - (eklesia, pronounced “Eh-kleh-SEE-ah)
Literal meaning: assembly
Word breakdown: from “ek” (out of/out from) + kaleo (to call/summon) = one who is called or summoned out to a public assembly.
Originally, this was a political term referring to the public assembly of all eligible voters (that is, all adult, male citizens who had completed military training) in the Athenian democratic system. In such an assembly, each person could have their say, and all of their votes counted. Each person contributed directly towards important national decisions and legislation.

- Devil - (diabolos, pronounced dee-AH-bo-los)
Literal meaning: accuser, prosecutor, slanderer, false accuser
Word breakdown: from “diabalo” (to backbite/slander, accuse, or give hostile information)

- Desciple - (mathetes, pronounced mah-theh-TES)
Literal meaning: student, pupil.
Word breakdown: from “math-” (aorist root of a verb meaning “to learn/perceive/comprehend”) + suffix “-tes” (“one who”) = one who learns.

- Eternal - (aionios, pronounced ai-OE-nee-os)
Literal meaning: pertaining to an age/eon, lasting for an age. Not forever like many would believe.
Word breakdown: an adjective formed from the noun “aion” (an age/era/period/span/epoch/eon)

- Fornication - (porneia, pronounced por-NAY-ah)
Literal meaning: prostitution.
Word breakdown: from “porne” (prostitute)

- Hell - (geena, pronounced GEH-eh-nah)
(hades, pronounced HAH-des)
(tartaros, pronounced TAR-tar-os) (sheol)
In the Old Testament in the King James version (which has massively impacted English speakers for centuries), the Hebrew word (sheol), is translated “hell” many, many times. However, sheol meant merely “the grave”. It did not in any way imply an afterlife or punishment or suffering. So when someone says that Christ died and went to Hell before ascension, it just means he was buried.

- Preach - (kerusso, pronounced keh-ROO-soe)
Literal meaning: to announce, to make a public broadcast, to proclaim, to be a town-crier, to be a herald.

- Repent - (metanoeo, pronounced meh-tah-no-EH-oe)
Literal meaning: to have an after-thought, to change one’s mind.
Word breakdown: from “meta” (after) + “noeo” (to think/consider) = to have the benefit of afterthought, to rethink, to think twice, to reconsider, to change one’s mind.

- Sin - (hamartia, pronounced hah-mar-TEE-ah)
Literal meaning: missing of a target, error, mistake, failure.
The word originally referred to occasions when one missed a target that one was aiming at. In English, “sin” is almost inconceivable outside of a religious context. In Greek, it meant any kind of mistake, error, failure, or shortcoming.

- Scipture - (graphe, pronounced grah-PHEH)
Literal meaning: a writing, something written
Word breakdown: from “grapho” (to write)

reply to post by thepupils


There was a lot borrowed from Mithraic stories:

-Communion
-Crucifixion
-Last Supper
-Easter
-Christmas
-Virgin Birth to mother Anahita
-12 Disciples
-Wise Men
-Sunday Sabbath
-Often depicted with a lamb
-considered a savior of man
-Mithra + Vohu Mana + Rashnu = the trinity

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Actually, there is a lot of supporting evidence to say the book of revelation was written pre-70 AD, and don't ask me for links, Google is very user friendly.

I've been through all the scholarly arguments back and forth, and the arguments for the historical late date are quite a bit more convincing to me than arguments for an early date. John was a political prisoner on Patmos under the reign of Domitian. The date he began and stopped ruling Rome are known.

reply to post by thepupils

Thank you for the response, but I still have a question: If the first writtings of Jesus was written by James how did James Quote Jesus? How in the new testament are there actual quotes of what Jesus said if whoever actually wrote Jesus's quotes?

I'm not sure if James was "first", I was merely pointing out that there are NT authors of books that pre-date Paul. And James could tell you what Jesus said because he was His half-brother, they shared the same mother, Mary.

Originally posted by thepupils

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake

 

I'd heard of that loophole before, claiming that both were from the same family within the tribe of Judah, but it's a far stretch considering the source (Matthew and Luke), which were written [anonymously] nearly a hundred years after Jesus' alleged death, and none of this explains why Jesus' birth, life, and death sound so much like the myth of Mithras, which predates Christ by nearly 1,500 years.  Actually if you look at who penned most of the bible (Paul), who lived in Tarsus, which was dead center in the middle of Mithraic culture when he was doing his writings, things start to become a little more clear.

edit on 27-12-2011 by FugitiveSoul because: (no reason given)

SNIP
 In the Old Testament it's basically a Jewish supremacy story and that the Jews were "The Chosen Ones" and there struggles and exodus that was lead by Moses. Then the New Testament is all about Jesus and that Jesus died for every gentile. I think it was to get a larger following especially from non-jewish people. 
SNIP
 

1. "Jews" refer to the House of Judah. The word "Jews" has changed definition just like the word gay has changed over time. God's "chosen" family were Abraham's descendants through Jacob who was renamed Israel. The New Covenant was to come to the House of Judah and the House of Israel as stated continuously through the Old Testament.
2. Jesus came to the House of Judah ("Jews") first, then to His lost sheep of the House of Israel.
3. God does not change.

reply to post by WhoKnows100

1. "Jews" refer to the House of Judah. The word "Jews" has changed definition just like the word gay has changed over time. God's "chosen" family were Abraham's descendants through Jacob who was renamed Israel. The New Covenant was to come to the House of Judah and the House of Israel as stated continuously through the Old Testament.

Your post sounds convincing but there is a big problem. The terms "Jew" and "Israelite" are used interchangeably by both OT and NT authors after the Babylonian captivity. See Ezra, Nehemiah, Hosea, Peter, Paul, Luke.

The old Hebrew texts say the deity ordered to be called YHWH.

He also ordered everyone to only worship him.

There were other Semitic deities back then, lots of them. One deity when pronouncing his name in ancient Hebrew sounds like "Gawd", the Semitic Deity of Fortune, Gad. Which is where the present day English word "God" comes from.


Prior to 1610 there was no English word "God". Do some research and find out what English speaking people were praying to in 1609.

In 1609 English speaking people were saying Jesus was the son of "El", "El Shaddai", or "YHWH".

reply to post by k1k1to


Some evidence says they did know, though how it is not sure.


Supposedly when Enoch and Elijah disappeared, they may have gone to wherever God needed them to be. Maybe America.


No, don't go and believe in Mormon stuff, but there is evidence of some sort of Judea presence in the region.

books.google.com...=onepage&q&f=false

reply to post by FugitiveSoul


Agreed. I am not saying that is is correct, I was just giving my understanding of what was presented to me in my upbringing as it related to the questions here. In fact, there are many similarities in most religions that people just seem to overlook.

My thought, it is the same God, no matter how you are introduced.

reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake


Glad we can agree on something
I do believe in a higher power. I just don't conform to the teachings of "religious men" to show me the answers I seek, which is why fall into the pagan category. Paganism (in a religious sense, not in the sense of what the word actually means) is the meshing of both science and spirituality, and it is what I use as my guide for both peace and knowledge.

reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake


Same person , same message , different terminology . Not so different than what is taking place currently when connecting the dots or making the comparisons .

They had no apparent word called terrorist back then , which he would be classified as today and all the rest of his followers as well . Just fighting against TPTB .

reply to post by thepupils


My thoughts exactly! I was a theology major in college, and often wondered why the OT was about a feared God, then it transitioned to a loving God that died for us...where people just getting sick of living in fear?

reply to post by FugitiveSoul


Yeah, I do not like the idea of people forcing people to believe, and pushing things upon them. Finding peace with the Creator should not be about what other people instruct you to do. It should be about you finding something that you truly believe in, that means something to you, and helps you to love and respect the people in your life (not everyone though, because not everyone deserves it, but I digress).

Anyway, I am Christian, but tend to fall into the group that you do. One day, I will know what it correct and what is real...and I really hope that I am not excluded because I did not fully accept what people were trying to force me to.

reply to post by watchdog8110


Agreed. Jesus would be public enemy number 1 if he lived today, because he went against what the "leaders" were doing/saying.

Originally posted by MarshMallow_Snake
reply to post by watchdog8110

 

Agreed. Jesus would be public enemy number 1 if he lived today, because he went against what the "leaders" were doing/saying.

Sacrificed himself for the movement , thus a martyr . Spirit of the revolt , the creation of the movement . Resurrection of the belief in the movement , that the current religions/churches have lost regarding the true meaning . They teach about the person / persons involved but loose the real message in all the junk they throw in with it .

Here is a possible conspiracy to it all when they are given tax breaks and so on , hush money to NOT push the true meaning / movement ?