Is Anyone Still Taking OWS Seriously?

Originally posted by Domo1

This is the point I've been trying to make, but put much better. I fully support people's rights to protest, but not at the expense of other people's rights and a huge waste of tax dollars to clean the filth left behind. And no, I'm not saying all the protesters are dirty. But many are.

It's a valid point. One must consider where the rights of one end, and the rights of another begin.

I personally think many of the OWS people had their hearts in the right places, but their heads and asses in the wrong ones. They honestly believed they were "doing something", but whatever that was was unfathomable by the rest of the population, because they lacked a clear, concise, voice.

I've just this evening heard of something called "Americans Elect", and I'm going to check into it to see if it's something worthwhile to get behind. From what I'm hearing, it truly IS "nonpartisan", in stark contrast to both the Tea Party and OWS, and is actually trying to DO something, rather than just sit in a park and claim to be "doing something".

It appears the plan is to field a third party in all 50 states, an alternative to the entrenched political machines we have at the moment. An "alternative" because it aligns more with the will of the people forming it, and not with the party lines of the Big Two.

Lots of people are dissatisfied with the status quo, and it does no good for OWS to claim otherwise of the rest of us, saying that only THEY stand in opposition to it.

Americans Elect

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by pointr97

 

If it was legal, why did they get kicked out and arrested? Oh wait because you can't allow a rag tag group of losers with no defined goal steal the right of everyone else to visit the same park.

This is sort of funny. Those "losers" changed the face of the next election and they changed what people are talking about and they made it impossible for anyone to go on without wondering if they are not being played by groups of bankers, financiers and corporate moguls. And here you are questioning their effectiveness. It took Jesus and his rag tag group of "losers" about 100 years for their message to catch on and be taken up by the general public but when it did...well we all know how that worked out. Can we judge His effectiveness now?

Check out what's going on in your state here:

www.occupytogether.org...

The movement is aware and protesting S 1867, and is touting Occupy Your Home....

Yep, looks like OWS is still kicking nationwide:

occupywallst.org...

If you really believe that anything has changed, you are probably watching the Presstitutes on Gov TV....

Occupy has opened a lot of dialogue, globally, that wasn't happening beforehand. That in itself is worthwhile, is this thread serious?

reply to post by masterp

Interesting. How would you express your disatisfaction then? how would you protest?

I don't know, marches, chain emails, involvement in politics to change who is in charge. Things like that. Things that don't millions of dollars for the taxpayer while trampling other peoples rights to use public space. This really wasn't the point of the thread.

To all the people that are against OWS and unhappy with the way things are, what would you do to express your unhappiness to the PTB?

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by masterp

 

Interesting. How would you express your disatisfaction then? how would you protest?

I don't know, marches, chain emails, involvement in politics to change who is in charge. Things like that. Things that don't millions of dollars for the taxpayer while trampling other peoples rights to use public space. This really wasn't the point of the thread.

Where would you march?

reply to post by posthuman

Occupy has opened a lot of dialogue, globally, that wasn't happening beforehand. That in itself is worthwhile, is this thread serious?

It is a serious thread. Did you seriously not read the OP? You're seriously off topic. I'm serious. I've responded as best I can to all the people bemoaning my position on Occupying parks with no end in sight, but it's really not the question I asked. Do you think OWS is losing steam?

reply to post by masterp

Where would you march?

In public places, because that is my right. I would not just stay there without leaving though. I would also get permitting and work closely with local govt./law enforcement to ensure that exercising my rights would not screw over other people for an extended amount of time.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by masterp

 

Interesting. How would you express your disatisfaction then? how would you protest?

I don't know, marches, chain emails, involvement in politics to change who is in charge. Things like that. Things that don't millions of dollars for the taxpayer while trampling other peoples rights to use public space. This really wasn't the point of the thread.

The "public space" we Occupied here in SLC is a haven for druggies and hookers and is NEVER a good place to take your family or friends. I drive by Pioneer Park daily and I see NO ONE but homless and drug dealers using it. It was a much safer place when Occupy was camped there. Seriously, have you ever used the parks where Occupy was camped before, or since the occupation was evicted by miltarized police forces under national direction? I seriously doubt it.

Your "method" of change will never work. I have voted in every election since I was legally able. I have fought for the issues I love for decades without recourse or success. They, TPTB, dont care. They let us believe we have a hand in the selection, but I know for a fact that they ALWAYS get the predetermined result. We got close to building a consensus here last year and TPTB redrew the districts just before the elections in order to create a supermajority.

Yea, politics as usual...

So, we are only playing by their rules...WHATEVER GETS RESULTS.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by masterp

 

Where would you march?

In public places, because that is my right. I would not just stay there without leaving though. I would also get permitting and work closely with local govt./law enforcement to ensure that exercising my rights would not screw over other people for an extended amount of time.

And if the time given to you to protest was not enough? if you did not have enough time to get your point across?

reply to post by PapaKrok

Seriously, have you ever used the parks where Occupy was camped before, or since the occupation was evicted by miltarized police forces under national direction? I seriously doubt it.

Yes I have, many times.

Your "method" of change will never work.

It already has numerous times. I'm pretty sure women and blacks can vote now.

reply to post by masterp

And if the time given to you to protest was not enough? if you did not have enough time to get your point across?

Look we all see the point you are trying to make, so make it. Yes I would continue to come back and do the same thing. No I do not feel entitled to take over either private or public property for extended periods of time.

Originally posted by masterp

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by masterp

 

Where would you march?

In public places, because that is my right. I would not just stay there without leaving though. I would also get permitting and work closely with local govt./law enforcement to ensure that exercising my rights would not screw over other people for an extended amount of time.

And if the time given to you to protest was not enough? if you did not have enough time to get your point across?

Occupy SLC WAS working with the Mayor to make it legal, and he turned and screwed us over. So did the Chief of Police. They proved themselves untrustworthy and snakelike in their dealings with us. We had the ACLU and local counselmen on our side, yet all of that was swept away with a federal, DHS led raid in the dark of night. The good Mayor was, conveniently, on vacation that day.

Playing by their rules is a losing proposition. They do not have your best interest at heart.

I think the people who showed up for OWS are just the tip of a very large iceberg. For everyone there, there are a thousand like minded people who couldnt protest for whatever reason. I think the sentiment and the ideas they expressed are felt by almost anyone who lives paycheck to paycheck. Is OWS still taken seriously? I dont know. What I do know is that the issues are still very relevant and will become more relevant as the economy worsens.

reply to post by PapaKrok

Occupy SLC WAS working with the Mayor to make it legal, and he turned and screwed us over. So did the Chief of Police. They proved themselves untrustworthy and snaklike in their dealings with us. Playing by their rules is a losing proposition.

Well that's a shame. I think many members here are too butthurt to realize I have stated on numerous occasions in this thread and others that I don't think all the protester are bad and that that isn't the point of this thread. I think there have been a number of areas where protesters have done a great job.

I got accused of using a Strawman for this, and I suppose you can take it that way. I prefer to think of it as an example. I'm OK with people getting a permit and marching down the street. I'm not OK with people taking over that same street for as long as they want. It's not fair to other people that want to use that street, or the businesses that rely on it for access. To me, that's the same situation as the parks. To others it's a logical fallacy. Whatever.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by masterp

 

And if the time given to you to protest was not enough? if you did not have enough time to get your point across?

Look we all see the point you are trying to make, so make it. Yes I would continue to come back and do the same thing. No I do not feel entitled to take over either private or public property for extended periods of time.

Sorry, but I am confused. Would you extend the occupation beyond what the permit would allow even if you do not feel entitled to take over public property? so if you came back, wouldn't that be taking over the area?

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by masterp

 

And if the time given to you to protest was not enough? if you did not have enough time to get your point across?

Look we all see the point you are trying to make, so make it. Yes I would continue to come back and do the same thing. No I do not feel entitled to take over either private or public property for extended periods of time.

You are housebroken, my friend. You are not a threat to them, as they are, obviously, the hand that feeds you. Why, in the name of all that is good, would you ask an abusive parent to establish the acceptable parameters for dissagreement with THEIR reign? That makes zero sense to me...

Wake up, unplug, turn off the news, get off the sofa, grow a pair and step up ....or you will find yourself in a world that will give you all the security you are begging for at the cost of personal freedom and dignity. There is not a lot of time left. Only a matter of months. There will be no way to "bug out" of this one, the world is too damn small for that and they will find you. The only safety is in numbers. The only safety is in public presence.

The battle is on and its time to chose sides.

reply to post by masterp

Sorry, but I am confused. Would you extend the occupation beyond what the permit would allow even if you do not feel entitled to take over public property? so if you came back, wouldn't that be taking over the area?

Yes, I would continue to come back. No, I would not do it without a permit and I would not 'occupy'.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by PapaKrok

 

Seriously, have you ever used the parks where Occupy was camped before, or since the occupation was evicted by miltarized police forces under national direction? I seriously doubt it.

Yes I have, many times.

Your "method" of change will never work.

It already has numerous times. I'm pretty sure women and blacks can vote now.

edit on 12-12-2011 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)

TOTALLY! Because someone had the balls to march and protest in the 50s and 60s....or did you forget that part?