Is Anyone Still Taking OWS Seriously?

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by PocketRevolution

 

Don't get mad at me because you were ineffectual.
...
No I don't. I'm saying that occupying public spaces for undetermined amounts of time is not the only legitimate way to encourage change.

I'm not the least bit mad. I'm just trying to give you a bit of perspective on where these people are coming from. If you indeed have any principles you are willing to take a stand for...perhaps you should try some of the officially endorsed methods such as writing your representative and see how you fare, since you're not prepared to take the word of someone with firsthand experience.

I'm not dedicated enough to scroll back through fifteen pages of thread and quote to you the places where you said what you now deny saying. So instead, I'm going to turn your own tactic back against you. You see, what you've done throughout this thread is the same thing that the Occupy protestors have allegedly done wrong. You've succeeded in identifying the problem. You haven't succeeded in identifying the solution. You keep telling us what you wouldn't do. You wouldn't occupy a park. We get that. So what then is your proposed solution? Throw up your hands and wait for your job to be sent overseas so shareholders can maximize their profits? Dialogue with politicians? (Hint: other people with a lot of money are also having a dialogue with those politicians.)

Please lay out for us the master plan that you have in your back pocket which will inconvenience no one, but will make the whole nation sit up and pay attention to your message. I'd like to hear it, because I've been looking for that tactic for quite some time.

Here it is in a nutshell. If you are a slave, getting whipped when you don't pick enough cotton, you don't have to have an economic policy to have the right to be upset. You don't have to have a plan to offset the financial losses that the end of slave labor will cause. It's enough to simply demand freedom.

Now don't get me wrong. A slave's life is a living death. It's not too far from realizing this to being prepared to die for freedom. Occupying a park just plain isn't risky enough. That's why it's not effective. It's not inconveniencing ENOUGH people...if you want to have ANY effect at all, you need to be prepared to accept great personal risk. You need to be prepared to maintain your principles even unto death. You must refuse to compromise, refuse even when your allies have deserted you and your personal reputation has been completely shredded, to give up. This is no accident. It's by design. It's why you see only a few examples in history of truly successful movements, and why those few uncompromising individuals are enshrined in history even by those who opposed them. So please, give these people some credit. They've gone a bit further in defending their beliefs than most of us will ever go in our lives. Not far enough, yet, but still....pretty far.

The principles that these people are seeking to defend benefit us all. Perhaps, in seeking to end our collective exploitation at the hands of financiers, they will visit upon us some minor, or even major, inconveniences. Please try to consider these as your own small personal share of the burden of responsibility. No one is asking you to die for the principles you claim to agree with. You're simply being asked to suffer a small loss of privilege (park use), or loss of wealth (wages) to further a struggle...which might potentially allow us all to realize a better world. Compared to the losses that have been suffered in history to grant you the freedoms and privileges you now enjoy, it's not really much to ask at all.

reply to post by Domo1


Furthest thing from dead you can imagine.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Domo1

 

Furthest thing from dead you can imagine.

try spreading some 9/11 truth. see how far that will get you.

Americans are so polarized between the left-right paradigm it's almost scary. It's so extremist. There will never be one cohesive voice for the 99% in America because you are either on one side or the other. Both sides see the others as traitors. Most cannot fathom seeing things as being a con on all sides that is meant to turn us all against eachother. I see this in my family where there is a left-wing authoritarian, someone who is to the right, a left-wing libertarian and someone who has opted out of all of it. It makes for some raucous arguments but their are some points of agreement. We all think we are screwed and that the country and world is going to # and we all are gonna be taken down with it. The left-wing anti-authoritarian believes education is the way to go. And the public at large is becoming quite educated as time goes on. It always starts with education and that is important. The authoritarian of the family thinks we all have to arm ourselves and fight and education campaigns are useless because it's gone beyond that. Both are right, we need to educate ourselves and be prepared to protect ourselves as well.
The ones in the family who don't really want to hear about it at all are just plain frightened. They know the state of affairs, they just don't know how to deal with it.

As long as one side sees the other sides as scum there will be no one cohesive voice, and maybe there isn't meant to be one cohesive voice. How can there be? We are a mass of conflicting personalities, Perhaps we just need to stay true to our own voice and play our own parts in this massive chess game.The non-violent educators will continue to educate. When it turns violent, the armed and trained survivalists will come into play. The people who don't want to deal with this terrible reality will be shocked out of thier denial.

The pro lets have a small government don't seem to want to see that having a small government will hurt millions of people. But then, it's true that the government is corrupt too the core. As if the privately run corporations and marketplace is not corrupt. Socialism and capitalism feed off eachother. Wasn't it the capitalist bankers who funded the Bolshevik Revolution. Capitalism and the private enterprise system is corrupt, corporations are corrupt, the goverment is corrupt. And the NWO elite are in control of every one of those systems. The system will become one. The worst of socialism and the worst of capitalism all rolled into one brutal force.

The New World Order.

And we will all play are parts in the play.

Let's reverse this supposition entirely;

Is anyone taking the Media and the critics of OWS seriously?

Here's what I think is the REAL story today;

Simply put, the immense structural inequalities of the global political economy can no longer be contained through consensual mechanisms of social control. The ruling classes have lost legitimacy; we are witnessing a breakdown of ruling-class hegemony on a world scale.

To understand what is happening in this second decade of the new century we need to see the big picture in historic and structural context. Global elites had hoped and expected that the "Great Depression" that began with the mortgage crisis and the collapse of the global financial system in 2008 would be a cyclical downturn that could be resolved through state-sponsored bailouts and stimulus packages. But it has become clear that this is a structural crisis.

LINK

Currently, we burn through about 1.5 earth's worth of yearly resources as a species -- which means we've already exceeded the carrying capacity of the planet. While the 1920's saw the same extreme differences between rich and poor as today -- what is different is that the same paradigm can no longer work. A crash and burn cycle that helps the elites, coupled with ever increasing profits (supported by ever increasing markets and production) is unsustainable.

Whether or not the economy can be fixed -- it cannot remain the same. Ethics might have been damned by necessity -- but making things "fair" and going towards green tech is the ONLY solution that won't be killing off most of the planet.

I think the Banksters, the military, and the "in the know" power brokers know that at least 90% of the human population is headed for doom -- and they don't seem to have any plans other than to hide that fact as long as they can and perhaps build bunkers. You think 9/11 is some impossible to hide conspiracy? When the PLANET seems hidden to the majority of Americans, I think we underestimate the power of our capacity for ignorance.

The problem is that the Transnational Capitalist Class is no longer constrained by one nation, and the cyclical repercussions of "taking too much." They are immunized from the collapse of any one economy, and so the "tin ear" can go on for much longer.

In recent years, the Transnational Capitalist Class has turned to militarized accumulation, to wild financial speculation, and to the raiding of sacking of public finance to sustain profit-making in the face of over-accumulation.

The THING I think we are seeing with OWS and the increasingly militaristic reaction of the police (heck, they've been given over a Billion and a Half dollars worth of military hardware -- one office even got a tank), is the break down of that social contract. The "will of the governed" is getting strained. I can imagine that a real national emergency might occur, and an evacuation called, and the Legitimacy and trust of the media and government that has been lost might result in few people actually evacuating.

Does anyone, for instance, worry more about Blackwater or a Police crackdown than Al Qaeda? I think a survey of Americans would show that fears of internal abuse of power are greater than that of terrorists by a wide margin.

Once the trust is lost, the ability to just "ask people" to follow traffic law and the social contract will be gone. It can ONLY be forced at the point of a gun.

What we gain by protecting a few airplanes from bombers by scanning and patting down every citizen, we lose in the trust those citizens feel in the society they are a part of.


Does anyone take OWS seriously anymore? How seriously do they take the person who asks that question, or the Media that doctors the footage, or the Corporation that uses bailouts to buy up another company?

reply to post by PocketRevolution


Here is my not so master plan, 3 pages back.

You see, what you've done throughout this thread is the same thing that the Occupy protestors have allegedly done wrong.

First of all, this thread wasn't started to argue the tactics employed. It was to discuss whether or not the movement is in it's death throes. I've merely been defending my views when they are challenged in regard to the occupy everything tactic. I don't like that in many instances OWS protesters are basically sitting there and only screwing the people they profess a desire to help.

Please lay out for us the master plan that you have in your back pocket which will inconvenience no one, but will make the whole nation sit up and pay attention to your message. I'd like to hear it, because I've been looking for that tactic for quite some time.

I freely admit to not having a master plan that would accomplish all these things. I don't recall ever stating otherwise. I am merely expressing that I don't agree with the tactics being used. I'm not a member of OWS and am confused why you would ask me to come up with a plan to further a cause that I have not yet decided I support. Granted, occupying places did garner attention but that attention has tainted the good you wish to do. Perhaps you could do something a little less annoying to the common man, and a little more annoying to politicians/1% folks. Picket their offices instead of neighborhood parks perhaps? Maybe instruct people to not litter, defecate etc. in public places? Stage huge rallies or concerts that actually have permits? Stop ignoring the police and then crying police state when you break the law? Have a clear cut agenda that the average American can understand? I know what your agenda is (kind of) but all these split of factions keep the average person confused.

It's not inconveniencing ENOUGH people

It's really just inconveniencing the WRONG people. You can still make headlines if you're creative. Hell look at PETA.

Listen, you seem very smart and passionate. I respect that, and that you wish to make this a better place for everyone. I don't respect a lot of what I'm seeing on the street or the news or ATS. I think that your point has been made with occupations and you should now leave. We get but it's time to try something new.

They should put every one of these filthy communist b@stards stinking up the streets in a labor force and make them work in a road crew or collecting garbage etc.
I was thinking how funny it would be if the people in the buildings above these degenerates would throw excrement and scalding hot water onto the rabble from above. Then as they cry and wail about how "unfair" it is , sneer down in contempt and curse them.
When are they gonna roll out the National Guard and put down the Bolsheviks?
Get the hell out of my country! You want to steal other people's wealth? Go to South America or Russia ...whatever, I don't care, just stop trying to do it here.

Meh. I might start taking them seriously when they actually start doing something that affects the 1%.

reply to post by batgirl


I think that post warrants it's own thread. Well done. I would gladly jump in and discuss with you for what it's worth. I hope you don't think that I am of the belief that all the protesters are bad (far from it) or that there is nothing wrong with this country (far from it) we probably agree more than you realize. Thank you for taking the time to write that, I enjoyed it. And thank you for being so civil in this thread.

reply to post by Godofgamblers


See I think many people here that knee jerk disagree with me believe that I feel the same way as this poster. I do not. I think there is a contingent of the group that wants to redistribute wealth, but think the majority wish to change how things are done on a real level. I also wouldn't paint the group with such a broad brush. I've got family that is probably in some park right now that I know for a fact aren't the 'stereotypical' protester.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

How seriously do they take the person who asks that question

You did take the time to write a fairly lengthy reply so I'll ask you.

Is that AstroTurf BS still going on?

2nd

Occupy Wall Street was disinformationed and destroyed.

Originally posted by Domo1
Just want to see what people are thinking at this point. It seems to me the movement is almost completely out of steam, which is pretty much exactly what I thought was going to happen. At this point do you feel that anything has really been accomplished? Certainly some things have been, but the amount of hype seems to have been completely unwarranted.

I really think it was a lack of message that killed it off. Argue all you want but the average American seemed to feel the occupiers were clueless, scummy and self entitled dirt bags. I would support a new group, with a clear and defined message as long is they didn't illegally protest in public parks.

[color=mediumorchid]Hello, Sir (:

I was really hoping that Occupy would succeed. I was rooting for them.

I thought that they were barking up the wrong tree from the get go... but I was still happy just to see that they were barking. People were finally standing up for their beliefs (even if we still don't exactly understand what those beliefs are).

I thought it was refreshing.

I don't, however, take it seriously. The message was never clear, the movement is unorganized and like I said previously, they are/were barking up the wrong tree.

I would like to either see Occupy get their act together (not likely now for the reasons that you mentioned) or see a new movement be born out of this mess.

I'm sorry but just because you studied Feminist Philosophy,Journalism,Fashion Design or the numerous other worthless degrees, that doesn't make me responsible because you smoked weed all day in between going to time wasting classes such as Art History or African American Studies. The "males" (and I use the word male loosely) in the Occupy protests are mincy little metrosexuals,pederasts,aged hippies, etc.etc.
All Liberals of course. The girls are mainly young dumb white college chicks, stoned on booze,weed, prozac or whatever the latest anti-depressant is the pharmaceutical companies are pushing these days. Or angry black women who don't get enough money from the man to feed their 12 kids, since their fathers wont.
All the white kids suffer from the old liberal guilt put out by the marxist professors and radical minorities i.e the shame that they have a family and come from a decent home and their ancestors were obviously a bunch of no good crooks who loved enslaving people to work on their cotton and tobacco plantations.
I can't even see straight to type this from laughing so hard.
It's all so pathetic. They all hate the cops who actually bust their butts to keep them safe from real criminals, while they call the police criminals for doing their job.
Bottom line. They need to go, the whole lousy lot of them.
I don't care if they pack their bags willingly and hightail it out of America or leave by force if necessary.
They're subversive and conniving fools being used by people who hail Marx and Trotsky and Lenin,Mao,Pot etc. etc.and they're a danger to everyone including themselves. They're just too stupid to know it. Either that or they know it and they are inciting treachery.

reply to post by Godofgamblers

I'm sorry but just because you studied Feminist Philosophy,Journalism,Fashion Design or the numerous other worthless degrees

I thought you were talking to me there for a second and was a little surprised.

reply to post by daryllyn

I would like to either see Occupy get their act together (not likely now for the reasons that you mentioned) or see a new movement be born out of this mess.

I would like to see a new movement rise from the ashes. Something a little more... better (herp derp words failed me). What a number of people don't get is that I am all for protesting, all for asserting your rights, and all for changing what our country has become. I just disagree with the method. I always like seeing you pop into a thread. The colors make me happy.

There was one reason and one only I never supported OWS.....George Soros money!!!

reply to post by Godofgamblers


You are more correct than you know

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by daryllyn

 

I would like to either see Occupy get their act together (not likely now for the reasons that you mentioned) or see a new movement be born out of this mess.

I would like to see a new movement rise from the ashes. Something a little more... better (herp derp words failed me). What a number of people don't get is that I am all for protesting, all for asserting your rights, and all for changing what our country has become. I just disagree with the method. I always like seeing you pop into a thread. The colors make me happy.

[color=dodgerblue]I agree.

You can make your posts [color=deepskyblue]col[color=mediumorchid]orf[color=deeppink]ul [color=dodgerblue]too (: