EVERYONE Should Be Scared of This! EMP!

reply to post by JohhnyBGood
Still the same outcome globally, loss of containment of nuclear facilities. You think they (us) wouldnt be able to track the source of origin, and you also think Israel wouldn't take this opportunity to strike Iran in all the confusion.....

It's all moot any way, I refuse to be held captive by the 'title' "EVERYONE Should be scared of this! EMP!"
I'm not interested in living in fear, because some doom and gloomist is on a rant again. If it's not Asterouds it's aliens, if not aliens, its some conspiricy what-not, if not that, something like this. I don't believe you people really subscribe to all this D&G every week. Guy's I'm not going to live my life in fear..... it's that simple, if I die, it matters little, same if you were reading old curious obits (me, and others) in the year 2050, I'll be long gone.

I'm currious how many D&G Topics have been posted on ATS this year? ....and what's come true? .....anything?

Another scary note, I was talking to my uncle who is a Major in the army and he tells me that 95% of all the armies equipment is not hardened for an EMP attack. I’m telling you guys, if WWIII happens, be ready for an EMP blast!

I really doubt the truth of this statement, Military personell in classified positions do not divulge information as you suggest happened with you and your uncle.
Additionally, if you had this conversation, your bragging here might actually jeprodised your uncles career...... did you think of that possibility, Your an easy trace.

OK, I'm no expert on EMPs.

I have a couple of questions for those expert enough to answer.

From my understanding a "Faraday Cage" prevents electromagnetic waves from penetrating the cage, shielding anything inside.

Question: Does the cage have to be grounded?

Question: How "tight" does the cage have to be? If it were a wire cage how close would the wires need to be?

Question: Does not the metal surrounding the engine in a car constitute a Faraday Cage? Is this not enough to protect the electronics inside? (I mean the engine basically sits in a metal box)

Would very much like to hear from someone knowledgeable on the subject. thx.

ya that makes sense, wipe out the place that owes you trillions and is the biggest buyer of all your goods

Originally posted by superman2012

Originally posted by Ghost375
um, why would the EMP radius be larger the higher altitude that the blast occurs? EMP's aren't nukes...there's no fallout from EMPs. it's a direct blast that goes through most solid material as fast as it does gaseous material. The higher up it is, the less of a radius there'd be.

...but it doesn't go through Earth or follow the diameter of the Earth. It is line of sight only, so the higher you set it off, the further it will affect things.

Earths curvature restricts the radius where the blast will be felt, if its a high altatude blast.
-If you imagine a blast above earth atmosphere. The curved atmosphere will deflect a lot of the blast to the sides.

The same goes for low altatude blast, as by ground impact ammunition, The radius of the EMP is restricted to earth curvature.

Originally posted by geryon
ya that makes sense, wipe out the place that owes you trillions and is the biggest buyer of all your goods

The Chinese can consume their own manufactured goods - there's a billion of them you know ...

Originally posted by MegaMind
OK, I'm no expert on EMPs.

I have a couple of questions for those expert enough to answer.

From my understanding a "Faraday Cage" prevents electromagnetic waves from penetrating the cage, shielding anything inside.

Question: Does the cage have to be grounded?

Question: How "tight" does the cage have to be? If it were a wire cage how close would the wires need to be?

Question: Does not the metal surrounding the engine in a car constitute a Faraday Cage? Is this not enough to protect the electronics inside? (I mean the engine basically sits in a metal box)

Would very much like to hear from someone knowledgeable on the subject. thx.

edit on 8-12-2011 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)

A very power full explosion creates a EMP by pushing the electrons away from the atoms in in the atmosphere.

This means that a EMP current are free electrons moving through air, not copper wiring.

If you want to shield electronics from this EMP current, the webbing of a copper shield must be air tight. So that the electron moving through air dont pass between the cooper webbing. The device must also be isolated from the cooper webbed housing.

Anything that has earth as a part of the deflection must remember to isolate the earth wire. Because the EMP current; if it hits the earthing wire will pass through this wire to the shielded housing. When the electrons come in contact with the wire the electrons will travel both ways; To earth and to the device.

This probably explains that you have to shield the whole car if you like to save it.

We have nuclear weapons since the 40s, this is...70 years. I am a little shocked since your post sounds as if you JUST discovered about the danger of nuclear weapons and EMPs or melting nuclear facilities.

Also..i cant follow why China would attack the US...and why you think that an economic collapse "just began"...because we have a slow economic collapse going on for a LONG time already.

Also..while it might THEORETICAL be true that an EMP could damage many/all nuclear power plants..the danger from nuclear power plants is real even without speculative scenarios like an EMP. So..let's speculate an EMP would indeed destroy all nuclear plants....the resulting "problems" (to say it mildly) would not come from the EMP *per se* since the EMP itself wouldn't kill, it would "only" kill all electronics etc.

So the problem is more the nuclear power plants and what happens if they would blow...be it from an EMP..terrorist attack or simply an accident like in Chernobyl.

You are aware that in the states nuclear facilities are in EXTREME range to major urban areas, like Chicago etc.? Imagine one single accident like in Chernobyl in ONE plant...eg. the one in Illinois. It would be a MAJOR catastrophe due to the distance to Chicago and bigger cities...

(Not to speak of theoretical earthquakes, floods etc...nuclear plants on the east coast...the whole East would be wiped out....Japan was only a little "teaser" for a theoretical scenario which could happen. But people are kept in secrecy because i doubt the average American is even aware about what a MAJOR accident in one of those plants would mean. How many Americans know this..how many Americans know how close the reactors really are? Heck..my ex from the states didn't even know what "Chernobyl" was..just as a side-note. And this was ONE reactor which polluted BIG parts of Europe back in the late 80s. We got that #### with the rain even living thousands of miles west of russia, but we still got the fallout. So..you dont need "the Chinese" for such a horror scenario....

reply to post by MegaMind


a billion poor people, makes no sense, and lose trillions in debt we owe them, your argument is weak, the North Koreans tried that, really going well

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by BlastedCaddy
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

With all due respect to your uncle, I have a hard time swallowing that 95% of are military is soft against an emp attack. As for our infrastructure, Cooked. Done. Fin. Great visual to boot Maro.

Also, if you have yet to read One Second After, pic it up. Ok read but gives a grim reality on such an attack.

A lot of the military equipment is not shielded against EMP. You can say good by to all the jets, at least the once above ground. Airports will shot down and so will the radars controlling airspace. Fuels truck wont be able to fuel military hardware. Many of the bombs with electronic timers, pressure sensors and GPS guided weapons will be deemed useless.

You can say good by to maintenance and production of high tech equipment. The raptor and B2 is out of business

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

There is one mighty advantage to having 900+ military bases around the world. An aggressor can't take out all your equipment at once. Many of the foreign bases are Air Force installations, so plenty of jets from that branch left. The Navy and Marines have carriers full of jets, harriers, helicopters, and most are not sitting in a state-side port. There must be strategic fuel depots aplenty too. Oh let us not forget the subs.

Also, I believe the DoD has been preparing for such an event for decades. There are methods to protect critical systems, and there are analog backup systems for communication at least.

Check out this 2009 pdf from the DoD:
Shipboard Bonding, Grounding, and Other Techniques for Electromagnetic Compatibility, Electromangetic Pulse (EMP) Mitigation, and Safety

Originally posted by geryon
reply to post by MegaMind

 

a billion poor people, makes no sense, and lose trillions in debt we owe them, your argument is weak, the North Koreans tried that, really going well

I'm not saying that the Chinese want to attack us. I'm just pointing out that the Chinese can consume their own goods and really won't need us in the future.

Google - China's middle class ...

China is rapidly growing ... not all of them are poor.

reply to post by primus2012


Yes, the technology and knowledge exists to protect vulnerable equipment from EMPs. But is the technology installed?

You should read up on what it takes to keep a modern fighter effective and operational. The Raptor has no shielding against EMP. Just imagine what it would weigh and what the costs would be. You can add the F-35 to the list. You can add your guided missiles and bombs to the list. They would probably never leave their cage.

reply to post by spy66


Thanks for your response.

So you are saying an EMP pulse is more than just a strong electromagnetic wave inducing currents in wiring.

Why do people always portray a one sided scenario? How many US navy subs are out in the sea at this very given moment? How many of them are actually armed with Nukes and of what types of Nukes? Anyone has any idea?

It is very simple. Nuclear Bombs are a deterrant. Every country who has tested the weapon knows it. They also know what goes around comes around. If one country can destroy an entire country as the OP indicates with a EMP weapon then what makes you think that US hasn't already positioned their EMP weapons from space or subs at the possible threat?

Although the topic is good for possible scenarios, I think it lacks more juicy technical details. Dont forget that US by far has tested far more nukes than any other country in the world on land, space and sea. Do you think they just liked blasting them for fun? These were intended to completely study the mechanics and side effects of the weapon to its fullest extent in multiple environments. Do you think we know the minute detail that the poindexters working for the US Government published any and all information on the Net? I dont think so. I wouldn't worry too much about such event. I have a lot of faith when it comes to our Defense/Military and its Capabilities.

OP you can waste your time being scared, I think i will enjoy my life and not worry about things I can't control. If Russia or China decides to make the world uninhabitable, there is not much i can do to stop them.

Originally posted by geryon
OP you can waste your time being scared, I think i will enjoy my life and not worry about things I can't control. If Russia or China decides to make the world uninhabitable, there is not much i can do to stop them.

So true ...

It would not stop a full nuclear strike.
this is why they have nuclear subs.
I would rather have a EMP drop
other than a Full nuc strike.

Originally posted by MegaMind
reply to post by spy66

 

Thanks for your response.

So you are saying an EMP pulse is more than just a strong electromagnetic wave inducing currents in wiring.

I am saying that a EMP are first of all electrons moving through air. If it comes in contact with anything that can lead electricity/electrons, "Ohm's law will imply.

All electrical powered devices are operated by Ohm's law to create a precise current/flow of electrons to all the small electrical parts making up the electronic device. The precise current/flow of electrons through the system makes the device work.

That is why a high EMP current/charge is so dangerous to electronics.

If we humans allow this to happen to ourselves then I believe we deserve it entirely. We, as a people, have every ability to stand up today, right now, and end all wars. If something like this happens then it's just as much the fault of me and you as it is the politicians declaring war or the soldiers dropping bombs.

Originally posted by geryon
OP you can waste your time being scared, I think i will enjoy my life and not worry about things I can't control. If Russia or China decides to make the world uninhabitable, there is not much i can do to stop them.

You're right. A life without fear is a life well spent, BUT, outright giving up shows your willful ignorance to help and love all people. "If Russia or China," cut that BS right now. Every trigger is pulled by an individual. Every order is given initially by one person. These are living, breathing people doing these things and simply calling them "Russia or China" throws around a massive generalization. Every single person is an individual and they're bound by their personal beliefs, not the dirt they live on.