Obama: Limited Gov't That Preserves Free Markets 'Doesn't Work. It Has Never Worked

reply to post by macman


The fact that you've resorted to slinging mud, character assassinations proves without a shadow of doubt that you have been defeated and continue to lose.

Don't that just hurt to be proven wrong each and every single time?

I would've loved to have you at the other end of my negotiation table because I would've eaten you for lunch and would've had you leaving dumbfounded and speechless!

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by macman

 

The fact that you've resorted to slinging mud, character assassinations proves without a shadow of doubt that you have been defeated and continue to lose.

Don't that just hurt to be proven wrong each and every single time?

I would've loved to have you at the other end of my negotiation table because I would've eaten you for lunch and would've had you leaving dumbfounded and speechless!

edit on 13-12-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

Please, within this thread, refer to this response reply to post by macman



As for Lunch?
NUM NUM NUM NUM!!!!

reply to post by macman


More mud slinging and character assassinations. Is there anything else to your programming other then those 2?

Waaa, Waaaa, Waaaa, go cry because this little kid game approach is ineffective. Throwing a temper tantrum because he can't get his way! The sad and sickening truth is that you've probably got 20 - 25 years on me.

Yeah lets vote for a libertarian or worst lets create a monarchy...just to officialise the deal.

You want smaller government right? And free markets tend to weed out the competition till we have an arrogant microsoft in each business sector. Yeah that seems about right. No public monopolies allowed, only private monopolies to make the baby-boomers of wall street happy.

Take your ball and go home all you ron paul republican fools! America needs a democracy and a new constitution. If you think Obama is radical then obviously you have no idea what a true socialist is. I would make obama look like jimmy carter and me look like HITLER...without jewish persecution though!

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by macman

 

More mud slinging and character assassinations. Is there anything else to your programming other then those 2?

Waaa, Waaaa, Waaaa, go cry because this little kid game approach is ineffective. Throwing a temper tantrum because he can't get his way! The sad and sickening truth is that you've probably got 20 - 25 years on me.

edit on 13-12-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

Who is crying???
What temper tantrum?
20-25 years?
NOPE. try try again.

reply to post by macman

You don't get to define wealth for others, period.

Well isn't that a brilliant argument. Just state something as though it were divine law; no need to use reason or logic.

Keep clinging to your straw man. I never did say all rich people got their money through exploitation.

Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by macman

 

You don't get to define wealth for others, period.

Well isn't that a brilliant argument. Just state something as though it were divine law; no need to use reason or logic.

Keep clinging to your straw man. I never did say all rich people got their money through exploitation.

What straw man?
You don't get to define wealth for others. Why would you think that you do?

reply to post by macman


Yeah but the IRS gets to define what you should pay and guess what, if you are wealthy enough you will pay less than someone who is middle class. That is fair right? When warren buffet says he pays less than his secretary then you should understand "houston, we have a problem"

reply to post by macman


What straw man? Read my post - You assumed that I said all rich people got their money through exploitation.

I get to question how their wealth is earned because their wealth is generally is some way derived from the collective efforts of the society of which I also happen to be a member. People do not create their wealth in isolation.

Between the two of us, I'm the only one actually offering reasons to support my statements. You, on the other hand, just make statements without anything to back it up.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by macman

 

Yeah but the IRS gets to define what you should pay and guess what, if you are wealthy enough you will pay less than someone who is middle class. That is fair right? When warren buffet says he pays less than his secretary then you should understand "houston, we have a problem"

And I am totally against the IRS.
The Government has no business in defining what is and what is not wealth.

Warren Buffet skirts the laws that were created and enforced by the Govt. He takes advantage of those laws.
Is that smart or dumb on his part?

Thought that whole comment was debunked as well.

Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by macman

 

What straw man? Read my post - You assumed that I said all rich people got their money through exploitation.

I get to question how their wealth is earned because their wealth is generally is some way derived from the collective efforts of the society of which I also happen to be a member. People do not create their wealth in isolation.

Between the two of us, I'm the only one actually offering reasons to support my statements. You, on the other hand, just make statements without anything to back it up.

Ok, a misunderstanding then.
Defining wealth and how someone got it is basic Envy.
People don't create while in isolation, but this idea that they "owe" everyone involved is ridiculous.
Envy again.

The great thing, is that if you don't like working for that person, who you see as using you to obtain wealth, you can work for someone else or yourself.
You are not bound to work for them.

I do back my statements, you just don't agree with nor like my answer.

reply to post by macman


Not envy, just trying to build a more just society.
Within capitalist mode of production, not everybody has equal opportunity, mobility or freedom. You want me to leave an employer who exploits me to work for another who... will do mostly the same. Working for myself? Perhaps - but it would have to remain a very small business and I would question myself the moment I started exploiting others for my gain.

Sure, I don't agree with your answers nor do you with mine. However, you have used the previous 2-3 posts to simply assert that I cannot "define wealth for others" without giving any reasons to support that statement. That's what I meant.

Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by macman

 

Not envy, just trying to builder a more just society.

That will never happen. Everyone can be deemed equal in the eyes of the Law, but everyone will have different outcomes. Those outcomes are not the fault of anyone else except the person.

Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by macman

 

Within capitalist mode of production, not everybody has equal opportunity, mobility or freedom.

Yes they do, come now. Equality does not equal outcome.

Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by macman

 

You want me to leave an employer who exploits me to work for another who... will do mostly the same. Working for myself? Perhaps - but it would have to remain a very small business and I would question myself the moment I started exploiting others for my gain.

So don't work. In fact, many people don't work. They get a check from the Govt twice a month.
Still your choice. Sounds like you have not found the place to work for yet.

Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by macman

 

Sure, I don't agree with your answers nor do you with mine. However, you have used the previous 2-3 posts to simply assert that I cannot "define wealth for others" without giving any reasons to support that statement. That's what I meant.

What reason is there to assert?
You don't get to define me for me. Very simple really.


Gotta run. I do like our discussion though.

Have a great evening.

reply to post by macman

That will never happen. Everyone can be deemed equal in the eyes of the Law, but everyone will have different outcomes. Those outcomes are not the fault of anyone else except the person.

Outcomes in this society are rarely from hard work but rather luck, class, or socio-economic factors.
The outcomes we see today are the result of an unjust economic system.

Yes they do, come now. Equality does not equal outcome.

No, that is a libertarian myth. Economic and social circumstances vary considerably; people do not have equal opportunities.

So don't work. In fact, many people don't work. They get a check from the Govt twice a month. Still your choice. Sounds like you have not found the place to work for yet.

Sure, there may be some who live solely on welfare but they are a minority.
Do you really have to bash welfare recipients? You don't think they suffer enough?
Perhaps you want to leave them to the mercy of private charities?

The real problem of America is not Obama, it is not the big government, it is not spending, it is not corporations, it is not lobbying, it is not even banks.

The real problem of America is GLOBALISATION.

To cut the long story sort, USA has all these problems because American products are no longer made by American hands.

There is a huge wealth leak from America to the outside world, as we speak.

Money does not flow to American families. That is the real issue.

wow this thread has taken a fantastic turn, a real discussion. I have a lot of reading to do before I jump back in.

Originally posted by masterp
The real problem of America is not Obama, it is not the big government, it is not spending, it is not corporations, it is not lobbying, it is not even banks.

The real problem of America is GLOBALISATION.

To cut the long story sort, USA has all these problems because American products are no longer made by American hands.

There is a huge wealth leak from America to the outside world, as we speak.

Money does not flow to American families. That is the real issue.

..but globalization is unstoppable. And actually it is exactly that that has consolidated the earths wealth into America. Americans for certain reasons have been the most clever, shrewd and ruthless exploiters ever to be seen. And American society has greatly benefited from it. Why do you think it is such a rich nation?

Only recently the gap between rich and poor is growing at rapid rate within America itself. It's capitalism running out control, eating itself up, consolidating all the wealth into the hands of a small minority. But really, can you blame them? Aren't they simply doing what the system is allowing them to do, where it is pushing them? To monopolize is one the major characteristics of capitalism.

Originally posted by lrak2
reply to post by macman

 

That will never happen. Everyone can be deemed equal in the eyes of the Law, but everyone will have different outcomes. Those outcomes are not the fault of anyone else except the person.

Outcomes in this society are rarely from hard work but rather luck, class, or socio-economic factors.
The outcomes we see today are the result of an unjust economic system.

Yes they do, come now. Equality does not equal outcome.

No, that is a libertarian myth. Economic and social circumstances vary considerably; people do not have equal opportunities.

So don't work. In fact, many people don't work. They get a check from the Govt twice a month. Still your choice. Sounds like you have not found the place to work for yet.

Sure, there may be some who live solely on welfare but they are a minority.
Do you really have to bash welfare recipients? You don't think they suffer enough?
Perhaps you want to leave them to the mercy of private charities?

While I basically agree with you I think you should admit that brilliance counts in this system. Lets admit that, brilliant people often become successful. Very often they don't, but many do. It allows for that.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Amen brother! There hasn't been a 'real' free market in a long time! More taxes is and should become illegal. Socialism has always been there intention. They want control and they want to see us asking and beggin for more.

reply to post by macman


I''ll be 32 next month, how old are you?

Yes mud slinging, yes you are throwing a hissy fit because you can't win here as me and like 3 other people have your number here!