Iran moves from "Destroy Israel!" to "Destroy all the Jews!"

Way to generalize all the people of Iran with your thread title. I have a good friend who has family in Iran and they do not hate Jews. I really hope war can be avoided.

reply to post by seabag


careful now, as quoting the q'uran

is an open invitation for somebody to post talmudic quotes of the "goyim are subhuman" variety

or a Toffee VeHa-Gorillah video

looks like YOU didn't think enough

deployed?

U iz IDF?
can i haz cheezburger?

Originally posted by CREAM
Way to generalize all the people of Iran with your thread title. I have a good friend who has family in Iran and they do not hate Jews. I really hope war can be avoided.

I didn’t make up the thread title, so I can’t take credit. You’ll have to complain to the author of the article I quoted.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by seabag

 

careful now, as quoting the q'uran

is an open invitation for somebody to post talmudic quotes of the "goyim are subhuman" variety

or a Toffee VeHa-Gorillah video

looks like YOU didn't think enough

deployed?

U iz IDF?
can i haz cheezburger?

The statement was made that the Quran doesn’t promote violence. I think the quotes I provided clearly show otherwise.

You’re free to bring up Jewish Talmudic quotes all you want if they prove a point you're making.

As for the rest of your post…I have no idea want you were talking about.

I call B.S. this is nothing more than propaganda from a biased website. If it was credible it would be all over the net but I can't seem to find anything mentioning this. If it was credible the Green Movement or ANYONE opposing the harsh government would have come forth and would be bragging about this all over CNN saying "Look what these people are doing!" the U.S. would love to get all that negative attention to Iran. So for now I'm not really buying this.

reply to post by seabag



Look, its EASY to take one group of people and say: 'They're evil!!!' I wish things were that simple in life.

And I wish you would have looked up those verses better within the context of the Quran. Because now you're going to look pretty ignorant.

21:44 Nay, We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?
21:45 Say, "I do but warn you according to revelation": But the deaf will not hear the call, (even) when they are warned!

4:89 They wish that you should disbelieve, as they have disbelieved, and thus you become all alike. So, do not take friends from among them unless they migrate in the way of Allah. Then, if they turn away, seize them, and kill them wherever you find them, and do not take from among them a friend or helper.
4:90 Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty, or who come to you with their hearts feeling discomfort in fighting either against you or against their own people. If Allah had so willed, He would have given them power over you, then they would have fought you — so, if they stay away from you, and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you any authority against them.

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. (the translation uses 'friends' but this is not to mean 'friendship', the exact translation would be: patrons. This might sound controversial, but this wasn't a general statement, it was one that had to do with the tribal leaders of the time)

5:72 They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
(Correct me on this one, didn't Jesus order people not to take other lords than God?)

8:12-8:60 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. (The context of the verse involved a very small number of Muslims who's belongings and houses were taken over by the statue worshipping members of Mecca, and since their numbers were heavy and well armed, the Muslims were afraid of fighting back. The verse was a means to psyche the Muslims up and get them couragious enough to fight for their own rights. There is no hatred here)

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (Again, Muslims are ordered to fight BACK against persecution. Can you see the difference? with this and hatred?)

And the last one, if you're a Christian, you're going to be pretty shocked to read this:

3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
3:56 As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.
3:57 As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong.

Now, as futile as this may be, I have to counteract your 'verses of hatred' with some of my own 'verses of unhatred'.

49:13 O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.

2:62 Lo! those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

3:84 Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction.

Originally posted by seabag
The statement was made that the Quran doesn’t promote violence. I think the quotes I provided clearly show otherwise.

You’re free to bring up Jewish Talmudic quotes all you want if they prove a point you're making.

As for the rest of your post…I have no idea want you were talking about.

There are crude quotes in both the Old Testament and the Quran, both also have beautiful quotes.

Originally posted by concernedcitizen519
I call B.S. this is nothing more than propaganda from a biased website. If it was credible it would be all over the net but I can't seem to find anything mentioning this. If it was credible the Green Movement or ANYONE opposing the harsh government would have come forth and would be bragging about this all over CNN saying "Look what these people are doing!" the U.S. would love to get all that negative attention to Iran. So for now I'm not really buying this.

Ya, you could be right. As I stated before, this just came out this morning and I can’t find it anywhere else either.

So you believe this is Israeli propaganda for what? An attack on Iran? Hatred for Iran?

Originally posted by CREAM
Way to generalize all the people of Iran with your thread title. I have a good friend who has family in Iran and they do not hate Jews. I really hope war can be avoided.

I remember the Iranian green movement, and the post on this forum,

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by concernedcitizen519
I call B.S. this is nothing more than propaganda from a biased website. If it was credible it would be all over the net but I can't seem to find anything mentioning this. If it was credible the Green Movement or ANYONE opposing the harsh government would have come forth and would be bragging about this all over CNN saying "Look what these people are doing!" the U.S. would love to get all that negative attention to Iran. So for now I'm not really buying this.

Ya, you could be right. As I stated before, this just came out this morning and I can’t find it anywhere else either.

So you believe this is Israeli propaganda for what? An attack on Iran? Hatred for Iran?

In my opinion, both. The war with Iran has been prophesied for Centuries, it's way bigger than any of us could imagine because of the major role Iran plays in the Middle East. The powers that be seem dead set on igniting the flame that will reign chaos for whatever reasons they have, it's only a matter of time before it all goes KABOOM. This is part of the physiological game they're playing to get us to hate Iran so then they can say "See, you wanted it, these are bad people!" but it's only a handful of those people that wish to bring harm upon others. The majority of Iranians just want peace, like any one of us, they don't want to be bothered with the nonsense that the West spews out, they just want to live their lives. People talk about the government being hardline, which they are, but I believe the government is so hardline there because they feel very threatened that their way of life will become history just like the others in the past. They don't REALLY want to fight it out because they KNOW that would be the end of them.

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by seabag

 

Look, its EASY to take one group of people and say: 'They're evil!!!' I wish things were that simple in life.

And I wish you would have looked up those verses better within the context of the Quran. Because now you're going to look pretty ignorant.

I don’t feel ignorant at all. You obviously feel passionately about your faith and I respect that. However, there are hundreds of examples that demonstrate Islam is not a peaceful religion. The most damning evidence is the absolute lack of Muslim Americans to come forward and condemn the actions of radicals. American Muslims remain virtually silent, which is very telling.

Of course there is also this!!

18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years. (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).

Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by threatening to kill anyone who leaves. This is according to the example set by Muhammad.

The Qur'an never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred
of non-Muslims more than 500 times.

Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.

Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.

Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.

Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.

Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands.

Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah. None of these other religions are at war with each other

link

That all jews be killed and all infidels convert or die has allways been mainstream Islamic end-times belief - something which is mandatory for all muslims to ascribe to!

And the whole anti 'Zionist' farce has allways been understood by muslims as jihad against the jews.

The left merely helped them dress it up as a humanitarian cause for the useless idiots of the West.

It is not as though any of this has been kept a secret - or is not completely obvious!

reply to post by seabag


When you read propaganda, you're letting people brainwash you you know.

Just the fact that I'm taking the time to post here should tell you Muslims have been denouncing terrorism since the moment it started on American soil in 9/11. Don't make me fish for news links now, because they are out there. They may not show on your Fox News channel or any other 'patriotic, beer drinking lets take guns and shoot anyone who dares to flinch at us' channels.

I cannot speak for those who have lost family members at the hands of American soldiers in the Middle East tho. I cannot fathom the psychology of people who might have lost family members in some bizarre raid somewhere. As it is humans have been known to react differently to a lot of things.

Just the fact that the US is a powerful country with a military to boast, is enough to gain hatred from those who suffer under its actions. Right or wrong is a matter of debate. You need to be aware of this. If you're an American, you should now that historically the US was the one to use a nuclear weapon for the first time in human history, and for what? as a retaliation. Americans live comfortably knowing it was 'just'. And history is bound to repeat itself. But perhaps this time, it wont leave so many people feeling 'comfortable' about it.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by seabag

 

Yes there are groups who hate Jews etc and want to kill them probably. I haven't met any members personally but there are a lot of crazy people out there.

But you haven't studied the nature of the beast enough have you ?

I have. The majority of this 'hatred' shown by extreme groups is not religious in nature. Its purely political.The Quran does warn Muslims against Jews, simply because Jews were generally known to break their promises. For example, they would get into a tribal pact and not keep it. Such were their ways back in the early days of Islam, and the situation warranted warning. But the Quran does not order Muslims to hunt or hate Jews. There is no hatred in the Quran. There are simply warnings. In fact, Muslims who take Sharia education are told of the ways the Prophet Muhammad was infinitely generous to a certain Jewish neighbor of his. Even when the lady was known to dump rubbish and feces at his door as a sign of her utter hatred, it is told that when she fell ill, he was the first to visit her and wish her well.

Now, let me go a little further and enlighten you a bit. Instead of reading conspiracy theory articles online, try to read up on the history of the area when you have time. The extreme fundamentalist groups like Al-Qaeda want one thing only: the fall of the 'American/Jew Empire'. They firmly believe that this Empire has been manipulating and using their people and their resources. They also believe that this Empire is the very essence of Dajjal (the equivalent of Anti-Christ in Islam). And they will go to extreme lengths to fight them.

As a Muslim woman, I will never, ever support the lengths at which they go to make a point. They have probably caused more harm to the Muslims living abroad then any American/Jew conspirator.

But I also expect people to educate themselves and not mix apples and pears the way you mixed Iran with Palestine.

These two are different issues.

edit on 3-12-2011 by nusnus because: (no reason given)

Nice try but your response was condescending and inaccurate. Your post was nothing more than pro-Muslim disinformation. Here’s some history for you from a VERY old book. There is no hatred in the Quran?? Let’s see:

Qur’an 21:44 Do they see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome.

Qur’an 4.89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Qur’an 5:51 “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”

Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who say; ‘God is the Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.”

Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”

Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”Qur’an 9:123 “murder them and treat them harshly”

Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

link

No hatred, huh? Look again!

Lol, your deluding yourself if you think The Qur’an is any more violent, sickening and gobbledegook than the christian bible. Personally I think they're both hogwash

Originally posted by concernedcitizen519

In my opinion, both. The war with Iran has been prophesied for Centuries, it's way bigger than any of us could imagine because of the major role Iran plays in the Middle East. The powers that be seem dead set on igniting the flame that will reign chaos for whatever reasons they have, it's only a matter of time before it all goes KABOOM. This is part of the physiological game they're playing to get us to hate Iran so then they can say "See, you wanted it, these are bad people!" but it's only a handful of those people that wish to bring harm upon others. The majority of Iranians just want peace, like any one of us, they don't want to be bothered with the nonsense that the West spews out, they just want to live their lives. People talk about the government being hardline, which they are, but I believe the government is so hardline there because they feel very threatened that their way of life will become history just like the others in the past. They don't REALLY want to fight it out because they KNOW that would be the end of them.

I agree that war seems inevitable. I disagree though that Iran’s hardliners don’t want war. I think they are inciting war by their actions throughout the middle-east. They’ve been fighting a proxy war with the U.S. in Iraq for years, they’ve been supplying Hamas and other terrorist groups, their never ending pursuit of nuclear weapons, their meddling in Egypt’s government, their support of the hardliners in Syria, etc, etc…

IMO Iran is provoking an all out conflict because they are religious zealots who believe they are ushering in the end times.

Unfortunately I think Netanyahu might fall into that category as well.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by concernedcitizen519

In my opinion, both. The war with Iran has been prophesied for Centuries, it's way bigger than any of us could imagine because of the major role Iran plays in the Middle East. The powers that be seem dead set on igniting the flame that will reign chaos for whatever reasons they have, it's only a matter of time before it all goes KABOOM. This is part of the physiological game they're playing to get us to hate Iran so then they can say "See, you wanted it, these are bad people!" but it's only a handful of those people that wish to bring harm upon others. The majority of Iranians just want peace, like any one of us, they don't want to be bothered with the nonsense that the West spews out, they just want to live their lives. People talk about the government being hardline, which they are, but I believe the government is so hardline there because they feel very threatened that their way of life will become history just like the others in the past. They don't REALLY want to fight it out because they KNOW that would be the end of them.

I agree that war seems inevitable. I disagree though that Iran’s hardliners don’t want war. I think they are inciting war by their actions throughout the middle-east. They’ve been fighting a proxy war with the U.S. in Iraq for years, they’ve been supplying Hamas and other terrorist groups, their never ending pursuit of nuclear weapons, their meddling in Egypt’s government, their support of the hardliners in Syria, etc, etc…

IMO Iran is provoking an all out conflict because they are religious zealots who believe they are ushering in the end times.

Unfortunately I think Netanyahu might fall into that category as well.

I too agree with you to an extant, maybe they (the hardliners) are religious zealots who don't care if they die but I do believe that everything they've done that is deemed "terrorist worthy" has been done only in response for something someone else has done. True, Iran is using Hamas and all that as a proxy against the U.S., that's their Middle Finger to America for surrounding them (Iran). Nuclear weapons? Maybe, it sure seems like they're heading that way, or could if they wanted to, but again I personally believe that the programs exists as their deterrent to not be attacked or invaded, not for offensive use.

reply to post by nusnus

When you read propaganda, you're letting people brainwash you you know. Just the fact that I'm taking the time to post here should tell you Muslims have been denouncing terrorism since the moment it started on American soil in 9/11. Don't make me fish for news links now, because they are out there.

By "speak out" I mean as a whole…not random individuals. They remained virtually silent after 9/11 until they felt the pressure from outraged American citizens.

They may not show on your Fox News channel or any other 'patriotic, beer drinking lets take guns and shoot anyone who dares to flinch at us' channels.

Now that wasn’t very nice. Did I quote FOXNews? DEBKA is an Israeli publication! I don’t think Budweiser is Kosher!

I cannot speak for those who have lost family members at the hands of American soldiers in the Middle East tho. I cannot fathom the psychology of people who might have lost family members in some bizarre raid somewhere. As it is humans have been known to react differently to a lot of things. Just the fact that the US is a powerful country with a military to boast, is enough to gain hatred from those who suffer under its actions. Right or wrong is a matter of debate. You need to be aware of this. If you're an American, you should now that historically the US was the one to use a nuclear weapon for the first time in human history, and for what? as a retaliation. Americans live comfortably knowing it was 'just'. And history is bound to repeat itself. But perhaps this time, it wont leave so many people feeling 'comfortable' about it.

Hating America is common in parts of the world. I really could care less who doesn’t like America. As I previously pointed out, there have been 18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years. People can cry about all of America’s so-called atrocities but the fact is that people have been killed in the name of Islam throughout history. America has only been around for @ 230+ years. We'd have a lot of killing to do to catch up to Islam (if that was the goal...which it most certainly isn't).

reply to post by seabag


Oh Seabag, I wish you would stop posting lies about Islam so I could stop responding to you. LOL

As it is, you are forcing me to bring up history into this now.

Seabag, the number of people you speak of, have not died in the name of Islam.

The modern ones were killed by terrorists, with political agendas.

As for historical events, Muslims have never truly seen war as a form of religious zealotry. It was purely conquest for more land. It was never done under Gods name because God never ordered the Prophet to go into other peoples lands and take it over. You wont be able to find any verses that support this. There was however support for war in the face of atrocity and prosecution. The reason being human rights. Human rights allows a person to defend themselves in the face of prosecution.

If your post was single handedly about a particular country, I wouldn't even bother posting this. But when you bring what you know as truth, which is a blatant lie according to my information, I have to respond.

Also, I'm not passionate about my religion. I just think you need a major correction in the religion department.

And if you think my posts are condescending, so be it. Id rather be condescending than ignorant or racist, like the way you post things about Iran and Palestine.

reply to post by seabag

No, I don’t have any other source for this other than DEBKA, and they are obviously pro Israel. That doesn’t mean it’s not true but it raises speculation. It could very well be propaganda to garner more support from the West.

Rumoured to be run by MOSSAD.

And you know who they are!

reply to post by nusnus

Oh Seabag, I wish you would stop posting lies about Islam so I could stop responding to you. LOL

I haven't posted any lies. And you can stop posting any time!

Seabag, the number of people you speak of, have not died in the name of Islam. The modern ones were killed by terrorists, with political agendas.

Correction – the modern ones were killed by ISLAMIC TERRORISTS.

As for historical events, Muslims have never truly seen war as a form of religious zealotry. It was purely conquest for more land. It was never done under Gods name because God never ordered the Prophet to go into other peoples lands and take it over. You wont be able to find any verses that support this.

Oh really? I already did! Remember this?

Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”Qur’an 9:123 “murder them and treat them harshly”

Also, I'm not passionate about my religion. I just think you need a major correction in the religion department.

So you’re not that passionate about your religion but you’re passionate about trying to kick my rear in this thread? Got it!!

And if you think my posts are condescending, so be it. Id rather be condescending than ignorant or racist, like the way you post things about Iran and Palestine

For the record, the fact that you keep calling everything I post “propaganda” doesn’t make it so….sorry!

By the way, my OP is about Iran’s hatred for and desire to kill Jews around the world, not just in Israel as we’re all accustomed to hearing. The leaders in Iran are Islamic religious zealots in my opinion. The only reason I brought up Palestine is to show that Iran has used the Palestinian movement to promote anti-Semitism around the world. Based on reports in the MSM and posts on ATS I’d have to say they’ve succeeded.