Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!

My only reply to the OP is....

Which religion is he a copy from if not Pagan ones.....?

Sorry, as far as I am concerned all of this is one great myth followed by another from a set of times when story telling was the main entertainment. There is no proof that Jesus lived in the way it was described in the bible, there's no proof of the miracles or the nature of the plagues, the ark and all the other stories.

There may have been a person called Jesus that had strong faith but what followed I feel was just creations of story makers to pass on with every story maker wishing to be 'in on it' so spreading and continuing the myth.

I'm not insulting your belief, just saying where I and many others stand.

reply to post by ironsavior


Please list any direct references made by a contemporary of Jesus.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Sorry I don't count you tube videos made by Christians as proof.....
Not bothering with this thread cos at the end of the day I don't believe any of it so...

well toddle off them ... I don't waste my time with unbelievers, not worth the effort or energy, much better to focus on positive like minded people

Those who truly walk a path of goodness and love should not be feeling any anger or disapproval of other beliefs but should listen and study the similarity with all religions........... for all are one.

I think the op may be taking zeitgeist(sp?) a bit out of context. I don't think it was trying to say jesus was a direct copy of per-existing pagan belief systems, bur rather a sort of picking and choosing of popular religious themes. Sort of like "hey, gods born to unconventional means are popular, lets do something like that!" And..."a good deity shout die and be reborn somehow. Lets throw in something about that as well."

Originally posted by colbe

Hello,
Do you know why the dogma Mary is "ever virgin?" Because it is true, the first
Christians would know and and pass the Truth onto us.

We're human, God's creation. He isn't limited but divine. Read the revelation given Mary of Agreda in the early 17th century, an excerpt from the Mystical City of God. It has Church approval.

The Resurrection

...The excellence of these gifts in the Resurrection were far beyond the glory of his Transfiguration or that manifested on other occasions of the kind men mentioned in this history. For on these occasions He received it transitorily and for special purposes, while now He received it in plenitude and forever. Through impassibility his body became invincible to all created power, since no power can ever move or change Him. By subtility the gross and earthly matter was so purified, that it could now penetrate other matter like a pure spirit. Accordingly He penetrated through the rocks of the sepulchre without removing or displacing them, as He had issued forth from the womb of his most blessed Mother. Agility so freed Him from the weight and slowness of matter, that it exceeded the agility of the immaterial angels, while He himself could move about more quickly than they, as shown in his apparitions to the Apostles and on other occasions. ...

The prophetic which is part of God's revelation confirms Mary is ever virgin. Literally~!

Mary "being first born" was presented in the Temple. Her parents made a vow of her virginity. God respected this vow.

"Now, the Protoevangelium of James (7-8), and the writing entitled "De nativit. Mariae" (7-8), [43] state that Joachim and Anna, faithful to a vow they had made, presented the child Mary in the Temple when she was three years old; that the child herself mounted the Temple steps, and that she made her vow of virginity on this occasion."

Bumping this up for Truth.

Why are there so many atheists? The world is near to the end of a period of time. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

How will you make it through what's coming? All by your lonesome. There is a
remedy, pray, ask God. Forget all this mocking and denial.

Originally posted by dreamfox1
Those who truly walk a path of goodness and love should not be feeling any anger or disapproval of other beliefs but should listen and study the similarity with all religions........... for all are one.

"for all are one" is total New Age nonsense. There are many "religions" and
only one faith.

reply to post by colbe


Exactly what i was going to hear and exactly why all are doomed.

Even i am as well

Originally posted by shepseskaf
There is not a single contemporaneous confirmation of Jesus' life. Not one. And, yes, there were chroniclers who paid close attention to the major and minor prophets of the time. He is NOT among those who were written about.

In short, there is no first-hand account from an eyewitness at the time when he was supposed to exist -- a person who said, in essence, "I saw Jesus on this date, and he was engaged in this activity."

The few, very cryptic references all take place after his supposed death, and are all very suspect, in my view.


I`m with you on this one. Had i been alive back then and witnessed only ONE of the MANY of the miracles written of in the bible. I would make sure all Knew about it. Whether I had to learn to write, carve it in stone or pay someone else ro tell my story. I would want all to know of it for all time. We are no different today. If you witnessed someone walking on water you could convience your family and friends of what you saw. And it would spread like wild fire, and people would want it to be known .And are we to believe that 5000 people were fed by 2 fish and 5 barley loafs, and that story didn`t circulate to most there being fed, surely the story would have been told between each other during or right after the meal. And if they knew don`t you think so many would have been so AMAZED there would be written records of it EVERYWHERE!!!

Originally posted by Burgo1010

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Sorry I don't count you tube videos made by Christians as proof.....
Not bothering with this thread cos at the end of the day I don't believe any of it so...

well toddle off them ... I don't waste my time with unbelievers, not worth the effort or energy, much better to focus on positive like minded people

Yeah, in your faith trying to save a soul doesn`t count for much by your additude.

I dont know if it is still on youtube, as it was deleted quitea lot, it was a program about there being over a dozen predesesors to Christ, all being virgin births, all having twelve apostates, and other such likeneses to Chists history,
I think I'll try and find it.

"Jesus copies Pagan religions" is just liberal/communist propaganda to counter conservative/fascist propaganda that Jesus is the "only" path to Heaven.

Originally posted by alltogethernow

Originally posted by Burgo1010

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Sorry I don't count you tube videos made by Christians as proof.....
Not bothering with this thread cos at the end of the day I don't believe any of it so...

well toddle off them ... I don't waste my time with unbelievers, not worth the effort or energy, much better to focus on positive like minded people

Yeah, in your faith trying to save a soul doesn`t count for much by your additude.

I help humans and animals etc where & when I can, ex volunteer fire fighter, a respect for all life, it is not my job to save any ones soul ... heal thyself ... or do you need a you tube video to prove that?

Originally posted by Burgo1010

Originally posted by alltogethernow

Originally posted by Burgo1010

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Sorry I don't count you tube videos made by Christians as proof.....
Not bothering with this thread cos at the end of the day I don't believe any of it so...

well toddle off them ... I don't waste my time with unbelievers, not worth the effort or energy, much better to focus on positive like minded people

Yeah, in your faith trying to save a soul doesn`t count for much by your additude.

I help humans and animals etc where & when I can, ex volunteer fire fighter, a respect for all life, it is not my job to save any ones soul ... heal thyself ... or do you need a you tube video to prove that?

edit on 3/12/2011 by Burgo1010 because: (no reason given)

John 14:12

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.


I was just giving you a hard time for so easily writing off someone (being a but head:lol
But to be serious for a second, when I was younger i was unsure about christianity, Me and 2 of my friends went to talk to a group of "christians". As the conversation started they asked how long I had been a believer. I replied that I was there to be(for lack of a better term) enlightened. I`ll have you know they never spoke hardly 3 words to me after that. I tell you, if I was as convinced as some "claim" to be about the bible. I would have jumped at the chance to enlighten someone if asked about what i believed. So when I see someone who claims to believe but shows no enthusiasm. It makes me laff

reply to post by shepseskaf


Abgar V the black or Abgarus V of Edessa (Syriac: ܐܒܠܪ ܚܡܝܫܝܐ ܐܘܟܡܐ‏; ʼAbgar Ḥamšōyō ʼAw Kawmō) BC - AD 7 and AD 13 - 50) was a historical Syriac ruler of the Syriac kingdom of Osroene, holding his capital at Edessa. (Compare to the region that was referred to as Armenian Mesopotamia[1]

"The legend of the mandylion as it is known today is the product of centuries of development. The first and earliest version involves a letter written by King Abgar of Edessa to Jesus, asking him to come cure him of an illness. It is found in the History of the Church (1.13.5-1.13.22) written by Eusebius of Caesarea who claimed that he had transcribed and translated the actual letter in the Syriac chancery documents of the king of Edessa. In this earliest account, Christ replies by letter, saying that when he had completed his earthly mission and ascended, he would send a disciple to heal Abgar (and does so). It is noteworthy that in this first account there is no mention of an image of Jesus. That was a later addition to the story.

In AD 384, a pilgrim from a convent in the Far West, Egeria, was given a personal tour by the Bishop of Edessa, who gave her many marvellous accounts of miracles that had saved Edessa from the Persians and put into her hands transcripts of the correspondence of Abgarus and Jesus, with embellishments. Part of her accounts of her travels, in letters to her sisterhood, survive. "She naïvely supposed that this version was more complete than the shorter letter which she had read in a translation at home, presumably one brought back to the Far West by an earlier pilgrim." Her escorted tour, accompanied by a translator, was thorough; the bishop is quoted: "Now let us go to the gate where the messenger Ananias came in with the letter of which I have been telling you."(Palmer). There was no mention of an image reported by Egeria, who spent three days inspecting every corner of Edessa and the environs.


Variegated images on the Shroud of Turin?

Linen in the first century, in the Middle East, was hank bleached. This meant that some yarn was whiter than other yarn. This resulted in variegated patterns as different hanks were fed into the loom. See: How the cloth was made and how the images formed.

Some of the bands of different shades of white (now yellowed and browned with age) are narrow and some are quite wide.

The variegation, or banding as it is sometimes called, is visual background noise and it alters the way we see things on the Shroud.

The face is gaunt, people often say. The nose is so narrow; and the eye sockets exceedingly deep; the hair falls too straight. True; but look carefully and you will see that the gaunt appearance is the result of dark vertical bands on each side of the face. There are faint, less perceptible bands on each side of the nose and a horizontal band across the eyes.

Special image enhancement software (Fourier transform filters) can be used to mathematically find these bands and minimize their effect. Notice how this filtering technique seems to change the shape of the face and nose and makes the eyes look more normal. The hair is less forward. It doesn't actually change the shape of the face; it merely minimizes the background noise and allows details to emerge.

It is most unlikely that the linen cloth used for the Shroud was produced in medieval Europe. Such cloth was field bleached after weaving. Medieval European linen was not hank-bleached. The woven cloth was soaked in hot lye solution, washed, soaked in sour milk and washed again. Following this treatment it was spread out in fields in the sun. This process eliminated variegation.

There is no doubt now that the carbon 14 test in 1988 were flawed. A paper in the peer-reviewed science journal Thermochimica Acta, in 2005, explains why. All indications are that the cloth is decidedly much older. Moreover, recent tests show that all vanillin has disappeared from the cloth's fibers, proving that the cloth is much older.

Peer-reviewed science journal articles, some as recent as the last two or three years, show beyond any doubt that the images on the Shroud are not paintings, proto-photographs or any other artistic method.

The images are wholly contained within a thin coating of starch fractions and saccharides like those found in soapwort: glucose, fucose, galactose, arabinose, xylose, rhamnose, and glucuronic acid. The images are formed by a selective browning of this coating.

Historical documents from Constantinople and Mesopotamian locales provide solid evidence that the Cloth of Edessa, traceable back to the sixth century and before, is the same cloth we now call the Shroud of Turin. This is supported by a mountain of forensic evidence.

The forensic pathology picture is clear. The image is of a man in rigor with puncture wounds, contusions, abrasions and blood marks that only a modern pathologist can comprehend. This is the image of a man who was scourged and crucified. Some of the fine pathological details are imperceptible to the unaided eye in the faintness and the negativity of the images. They become apparent only with help from modern image enhancement technologies.

The Shroud of Turin is certainly not a medieval fake relic. That much is clear from the evidence. All things considered, it is probably, at the very least, a burial cloth of a crucifixion victim.

If this is a burial wrapping -- and it is hard to imagine what else it might be -- we must confront a simple reality. Burial cloths do not survive tombs. Certainly, the only way that this burial cloth could exist is if it was separated from the body before decomposing flesh ravaged it. That would happen within just a few days. And it goes without saying that the tomb must have been open in order to retrieve the cloth.

And there is the startling, unexplained 3D encoding of the Shroud. and the peculiar variegated banding and its optical illusions.

Speaking of history . . .

Within the Hymn of the Pearl, (ca 50-300 CE) are these lines; the two images segment:

Suddenly,
I saw my image on my [burial a] garment
like in a mirror

Myself and myself through myself
[or myself facing outward and inward b]

As though divided, yet one likeness

Two images
but one likeness of the King [of kings c]

It is hard to imagine that these words do not describe the Shroud of Turin

Judism, Christianity & Islam are all bunk and this documentary proves it.

1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets


Ironic that biblical scholars and believers completely ignore evidence that doesn't fit in with their beliefs. Asherah the wife of God for one and Yahweh was subservient to her. So much for monotheism.

Asherah
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Burgo1010

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Sorry I don't count you tube videos made by Christians as proof.....
Not bothering with this thread cos at the end of the day I don't believe any of it so...

well toddle off them ... I don't waste my time with unbelievers, not worth the effort or energy, much better to focus on positive like minded people

lol but you wasted your time posting that comment
Also How very Christian of you? are you saying before you would feed a hungry person you would find out if they are Christian/Religious and if not you wouldnt waste your time with them pfft

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by colbe

Hello,
Do you know why the dogma Mary is "ever virgin?" Because it is true, the first
Christians would know and and pass the Truth onto us.

We're human, God's creation. He isn't limited but divine. Read the revelation given Mary of Agreda in the early 17th century, an excerpt from the Mystical City of God. It has Church approval.

The Resurrection

...The excellence of these gifts in the Resurrection were far beyond the glory of his Transfiguration or that manifested on other occasions of the kind men mentioned in this history. For on these occasions He received it transitorily and for special purposes, while now He received it in plenitude and forever. Through impassibility his body became invincible to all created power, since no power can ever move or change Him. By subtility the gross and earthly matter was so purified, that it could now penetrate other matter like a pure spirit. Accordingly He penetrated through the rocks of the sepulchre without removing or displacing them, as He had issued forth from the womb of his most blessed Mother. Agility so freed Him from the weight and slowness of matter, that it exceeded the agility of the immaterial angels, while He himself could move about more quickly than they, as shown in his apparitions to the Apostles and on other occasions. ...

The prophetic which is part of God's revelation confirms Mary is ever virgin. Literally~!

Mary "being first born" was presented in the Temple. Her parents made a vow of her virginity. God respected this vow.

"Now, the Protoevangelium of James (7-8), and the writing entitled "De nativit. Mariae" (7-8), [43] state that Joachim and Anna, faithful to a vow they had made, presented the child Mary in the Temple when she was three years old; that the child herself mounted the Temple steps, and that she made her vow of virginity on this occasion."

Bumping this up for Truth.

Why are there so many atheists? The world is near to the end of a period of time. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

How will you make it through what's coming? All by your lonesome. There is a
remedy, pray, ask God. Forget all this mocking and denial.

Because the church lost control of state and therefore lost the power to decide what was and wasn't approved thought. People question religion because unlike several hundred years ago most people today are educated and not so easy to fool.