Controversial Therapy for Pre-Teen Transgender Patient Raises Questions

reply to post by Annee

They do with adult consent. Kind of like ear piercing.

How about facial tattoos?

reply to post by BriggsBU

The difference is that male hormones cause irreparable changes to the body that make it much more difficult for a male to transition to a female. The deep voice and masculine skeletal changes can be prevented through use of puberty blocking drugs so that if the child does decide to transition to become a female, they can develop essentially as a female would have developed. This is not the first time this has been done and those that have gone this route and transitioned are almost indistinguishable from those born female.

I appreciate that you answered my question. For some reason the answer made it worse for me. If the kid is always allowed to be a girl, and never experiences being a boy, how will he know to make an informed decision. Also, if he is really a she (inside), why would it matter that his new female self had a lower voice and differing bone structure? I've seen some manly looking women that were still very feminine. Kind of a bad lesson to teach a kid already grappling with serious issues.

Originally posted by Frontkjemper

Originally posted by Annee
They're fine - - - society just needs to evolve.

Being sexually confused isn't "being fine". Try again. They need help, either one way or another so they can figure out who they are. But my little brother wanted to be a woman when he grew up. We didn't think he had identity issues, just him being a kid thinking he'd grow into a woman. But when you get parents who don't have enough IQ combined to open up a door, you get idiotic things like "oh they're a woman in a mans body" or vice versa. It's as simple as that.

Also, ever think that maybe it's societies fault that these children are "confused"? Maybe it's society that's so messed up that it's messing up our kids.

Some are women trapped in men's bodies and changing the outer gives them a sane life for the first time. And you can't judge that, only they can. Its very serious and real what this does to the psyche.

I'm very close to what Annee's views on this, with the exception that while some do know early,not all do and I really think its a better decision as an adult, though the avoidance of problems can happen at early age, such as hair. But, its irreversible and should not be handled quickly.

Further there is quite a difference between a child who is gay, bi or the wrong sex, some just like to dress up and pretend a bit, who know this, ones who discover this as their homones kick in, but these categories are not all the same. Yet if this runs in the family it could fall into any of these.

He needs his hormones really. He needs to become his genetic self first.

Originally posted by billy197300

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by billy197300
REALLY? You think it is the childs decision, at age 11?

Absolutely!

If you had a 11 year old and they decided they were going to start making child porn films

I'm sorry if you are ignorant in regards to these children.

This has nothing to do with porn and having sex.

I have nothing more to say to you until you are more informed.

Modern society... *sigh*. I was born in the wrong era

I liked when things were more simple. When a man was a Man and a woman was a Woman. Call me old-fashioned...

Did people always want to change sexes throughout history? Has the desire grown over time or...? I'd imagine that it has grown somewhat, if you think about all the goodies that corporations have put into all the food, water and plastics

Originally posted by Unity_99
. . . with the exception that while some do know early, not all do and I really think its a better decision as an adult, though the avoidance of problems can happen at early age, such as hair.

We're talking only about delaying the physical attributes of males - - such as the Adam's Apple - facial hair - etc.

Do you really think an 11 year old boy "who doesn't know" would even be thinking about this?

No child can make a decision like this without adult support and consent.

None of these families walk into a clinic and say "Hey my boy thinks he's a girl - - give him hormone blockers".

I'm sure there is a whole process including psychological evaluation.

Originally posted by lllNanoAugmentedlll
Modern society... *sigh*. I was born in the wrong era

I liked when things were more simple. When a man was a Man and a woman was a Woman. Call me old-fashioned...

Did people always want to change sexes throughout history? Has the desire grown over time or...? I'd imagine that it has grown somewhat, if you think about all the goodies that corporations have put into all the food, water and plastics

Jewish people probably wanted to celebrate their religious holidays in public schools too. Why does a government that has separation of Church and State - - have an official Christian holiday?

Yes - - these gender differences have always been a natural occurrence in humans (and other mammals). They were forced to live on the fringes of society and develop their own culture.

Now that society and equal rights has evolved - - some what - - these gender variant people - - can emerge without persecution.

I was just reading about this and came across your thread. I find it disgusting and completely agree with you. The kid is 11 for #s sake. I don't give a damn if the parents are gay blah blah blah. It's still WRONG. The kid is not old enough to know better. It's like they're forcing it. When this kid is old enough to decide for himself,more power to him. Until then,the parents need to back off and quit forcing it.I don't believe for one second that he decided he wanted to do this.

reply to post by freakjive


I wonder how many pro-male and pro-masculine conversations generally were held around the boy and at the dinner table while the boy grew up.

Yes, I did just say that!

reply to post by Annee


Annee I like you. I don't think we have ever agreed in the same thread, but I really like you. You won my respect rather quickly by sticking to your guns and never resorting to the mudslinging I so often have.

This is a good point:

Do you really think an 11 year old boy "who doesn't know" would even be thinking about this?

That certainly gave me pause. When I was 11 the only things I was worried about were my puppy, BB gun and chores. I think you have an excellent point. Why would a child so young be so hell bent on having people recognize him as a girl? To be honest, the subject creeps me out and I will freely admit I don't get it.

I am concerned that the child may have been groomed into believing he was a girl. I am certainly not going to blame that on having a lesbian couple as mothers though.

I am concerned that some people in this day and age are so dead set against societal norms, that in their attempt to not condition a child to choose a gender, they would end up promoting the opposite gender.

I am also concerned that a child in this situation is being taught the wrong thing; that how they were born is somehow not right. I certainly wish I was 2 inches taller. I wish I was a genius. I wish I had been born musically gifted. Those things are not me though. My parents taught me to love me for who I am. In my opinion, drugging your body into believing it is female is ignoring who you are.

This is why lesbians should not be allowed to raise children, especially boys. I imagine inside this child's mind, soul and psyche is a kalidescope of impressions, feelings, images, messages and experiences that have him so twisted up and confused about his identity, he would need the next 30 years to unravel it. He should not be maimed before he has the chance to comprehend what has been done to him. It's bad enough his father was stolen from him, (yes stolen, because he DOES have a father. Everyone does. The 'sperm donor' is his FATHER, like to or not. He was robbed of that relationship. (And yes I know children from normal relationships often grow up without their fathers, but in those cases it is not done to them deliberately and with premeditation. It is usually the result of a death or a break up.

And if it's not bad enough that he was deprived of his father, he was raised by two women who probably hate men. Yes, I know it's a stereotype, but I've seen it - seen lesbian mothers in supermarkets livid with rage because their son was acting like a boy.

It's so evil to do this to children. Children are not toys. They're humans with needs of their own that deserve respect. Lesbians and homosexuals should be allowed to raise dogs and cats. Period. Children need mothers and fathers.

reply to post by Hillarie

This is why lesbians should not be allowed to raise children, especially boys. I imagine inside this child's mind, soul and psyche is a kalidescope of impressions, feelings, images, messages and experiences that have him so twisted up and confused about his identity, he would need the next 30 years to unravel it.

Bull. One of my buddies has two Moms, no Dad and is the manliest SOB you will ever meet. His Moms are wonderful parents, always were too. Don't lump everyone together.

The 'sperm donor' is his FATHER, like to or not. He was robbed of that relationship. (And yes I know children from normal relationships often grow up without their fathers, but in those cases it is not done to them deliberately and with premeditation. It is usually the result of a death or a break up.

And here I always thought a sperm donor WASNT a father. A father isn't a title earned because of your ability to ejaculate.

And if it's not bad enough that he was deprived of his father, he was raised by two women who probably hate men. Yes, I know it's a stereotype, but I've seen it - seen lesbian mothers in supermarkets livid with rage because their son was acting like a boy.

Well if they hate men why adopt/raise a boy? Stereotype indeed.

It's so evil to do this to children. Children are not toys. They're humans with needs of their own that deserve respect. Lesbians and homosexuals should be allowed to raise dogs and cats. Period. Children need mothers and fathers.

Lesbians and gay men ARE mothers and fathers. Go talk to some kids with gay parents. I have a feeling they feel blessed to be in a loving home, and don't give a shi about their parents sexual orientation.

This has nothing to do with the child wanting to be gay. The child wants to change the nature of his existence, (which I personally believe should be a banned anyways) your damn right it has to do with the parents being lesbian. They have been egging him on to think this way, no doubt from his experience of having to watch them express their love for each other every day. If the boy had a father, this would most likely be an issue. Maybe he would be gay, but he would still be a boy and become a man.

Whatever, my personal opinion is the parents should be arrested for child abuse for brain washing him into thinking this is the way he should be. Five years in prison ought to do it, they can have all the woman on woman relations there.

IFor instance, if they are always talking about why they are two mommys and slandering the male race and expressing their disgust for man with the kid in earshot, or directly to the boy, it would completely skew his vision on the natural order of things. I am of absolute certainty the couple's bias against men over this boys short lifetime has more than damaged and confused this boy to the point of what he is saying now. Remember that children want to grow up to be like their parents, and a boy who's role models are two anti-man women just has no chance.

Its messed up too because I have a friend who grew up with lesbian parents, and we had to toughen him up when we were little because he was acting too girly. Had it not been for us in the neighborhood, I can almost be certain my buddy would probably have went the route of this boy.

kids going to change its mind few years down the road like all kids do about everything.

guess who it will blame? parents.

guess who it will sue? parents / doctor

reply to post by Domo1


Some ancient civilizations had social structures where the Father was actually the Brother of the Woman having the child, and the Male who got her pregnant had no claim to the child whatsoever. This was a structure where women were more powerful than Men.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by billy197300

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by billy197300
REALLY? You think it is the childs decision, at age 11?

Absolutely!

If you had a 11 year old and they decided they were going to start making child porn films

I'm sorry if you are ignorant in regards to these children.

This has nothing to do with porn and having sex.

I have nothing more to say to you until you are more informed.

Sexuality isn't about sex? That IS ALL it is about. What the hell color is the sky in that make believe world you live in? What the hell is sexuality about if not SEX? You are the ignorant one, who is not informed or even logical.

reply to post by billy197300


Dude this creeps me out too but comparing a child confused about sexual identity to making kiddie porn is a bit absurd. There are better arguments to be had.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by Annee

 

Annee I like you. I don't think we have ever agreed in the same thread, but I really like you. You won my respect rather quickly by sticking to your guns and never resorting to the mudslinging I so often have.

Thank you. I do try to make straight forward statements without personal emotion.

I'm 65. Raised my own two daughters - one who was ADD back in 1968. Helped raise my 18 year old grandson (who's dad chose drugs over him) who was very hyper - but unlike his mother was not ADD. Knowledge knows the difference. Stood up to his private school and said "deal with it" - - NO MEDS! Now raising 11 year old granddaughter and almost 4 year old grandson who's dad died of Cancer before he was a month old (so mom can work) . Also my mom had polio when I was 5 and I grew up with a "club/group" of people with varied disabilities.

I took an interest in LGBT issues 20 years ago. I read and follow everything that comes to my attention. Including gender-varied children. There have also been TV documentaries/presentations on these issues and the camps for these children.

I came into this discussion with real knowledge.

I take this very seriously. Emotional jabs without real knowledge/information is detrimental to the progression and welfare of those that fall into the gender questionable group. Children/Adolescents/Adults.

EDIT: I've experienced the walls of intolerance in many areas - - and watched them come down over the years. Many years ago there was a TV show: "Queen for a Day". My mom was one of the semi finalists. But when it came down to reality - - the producers refused to allow someone on crutches and a full length brace to be on the show. They did not want to offend their audience (really!).

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by billy197300

 

Dude this creeps me out too but comparing a child confused about sexual identity to making kiddie porn is a bit absurd. There are better arguments to be had.

My point being, how can a child that knows nothing of sex.....at all, even know what sexual identity is? We are talking about an 11 year old here, not a horny teenager. They don't, therefore they can't be confused about it and it is impossible for them to make an informed decision about it. UNLESS there is some really screwed up adult putting those ideas in his head for their own sick ass purposes. All of this is a direct result of parenting, not the child. Please someone explain how it is possible to make a decision on sexuality while being completely ignorant about sex?

Does he have any men in his daily life?

If not he could just be emulating his environment, kids want to fit in.