Question for those who say they are losing rights in the US

If i live in any state like New Jersey , which is a may issue state...i have lost my 2nd Amendment right. Even though it appears you may be issued a permit to carry a weapon, in practice this is NOT the case...New Jersey rarely issues carry permits to citizens. The second amendment states we have the right to BEAR arms... BEAR does not mean simply own...BEAR means to be equiped with.. In states like New Jersey, if you leave your home you can not equip yourself with arms. Therefore their state gun control law is unconstitutional...and a loss of my rights.

reply to post by Xcathdra


None. Atleast I haven't. I go to work each day. I'm free to do whatever I choose.Whether it's taking my dog and daughter to the park or going and getting wasted with my buddies. Neither I nor anyone I know have 'tptb' breathing down my neck. I do what I want,when I want. Any amercian who thinks they've lost any rights should go live somewhere else for a while. I'll glady buy your plane ticket out.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
I have seen this comment used quite a bit by people lately and I am curious.

Exactly what rights have American citizens lost?
When did they lose those rights?

Im not looking for a fight or anything, but am curious as to what people are seeing in regards to this topic.

edit on 15-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: spelling

Hi. Let's ask some Native Americans...

Colombus Day?

MISSION STATEMENT

United Native America was formed in 1993 as a nation wide grass roots movement to bring about a federal national holiday for Native Americans. The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma fully supports this issue with resolution 91-93. United Native America resolution 1-1 calls on the federal government to stop using our tax dollars to pay for Columbus Day.

Columbus does not rate a federal tax paid holiday in this country. We are standing up against the racial exclusion of Native Americans in our society to include these industries, national television stations, movie industries, national sports industries, national news media and music industries. Bringing about these changes have to take place before America can say it represents all its people equally.

The American Indians helped give birth to this country and helped form the government we have today, this is the true beginning history of America. This contribution and many more are noted in the American Indian heritage month of November resolution passed each year by the United States Senate and signed by the president, please join us in the struggle in the spirit of Crazy Horse, Tecumseh and countless others to live in peace on our land.

and, and.

plus.

The internal watchdog of the Justice Department has found 34 new credible civil rights and civil liberties violations under the anti-terrorism USA Patriot Act, according to a report released Monday.

The report, released by the Justice Department's inspector general office, found the violations from its regular six-month survey of the antiterror law.

"This report shows there are more victims of John Ashcroft's war on the Constitution," said Rep. John Conyers, D-Michigan. "The attorney general appears on television nearly every week claiming to protect us, while he simultaneously dismantles our civil liberties and civil rights. Will the Justice Department ever admit that it has gone too far?"

articles.cnn.com...
Patriot Act. . . .


you need look no farther for our rights being stripped. Personal privacy is gone thanks to wonderful organizations such as FACEBOOK selling information. . .

articles.cnn.com...

www.helium.com...

www.sethbarnes.com...

www.independent.org...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Look at it this way, an American citizen who was not proven to be a enemy combatant at the time was assassinated recently by the American president. If the federal government sees you as enough of a threat they can take you out. Rights raped.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Hi Xcathdra, As you may or may not know, I tend to know where you stand and are going with things like this thread. It's obvious for some of us who walk that same fine line for a living currently or have in the past.

While I know full and clear what the purposes of this thread are for the most part. It's a (bait in my opinion) thread to gauge how well people understand "Individual rights" in lawful and legal terms. Most do not get it. Terms like right being taken or lost and freedoms and liberties are a blurry consensus for most Americans abroad.

I think no less of anyone who misuses or misinterprets these things. They still have validity in there sentiments and it's still and epidemic concern among many Americans and it should be for you on both sides of the spectrum when standing on the front lines at home like you do professionally.

I in no way mean to imply or assume anything in this thread but I wanted to state my pros and cons for you making such a thread just the same.

To the op of this thread. I'll play your game. I haven't lost any rights to speak of. You asked the incorrect question though. What an intelligent person would have asked was "have your rights ever been violated?" Violations of rights are being perpetrated every day in this country! So, no rights have been lost, just severely violated! There will be no debate on my response to your ill conceived thread. And remember......surrender is not an option. I live by that code.

The government does not give out any rights - has no authority to do so.....you can do whatever the hell you wish. One chooses to limit themselves to be part of a stable society.

This thread is a fallacy.

Our rights as American citizens are INNUMERABLE.

The Ninth Amendment- The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Thus it is true that though a right of the people may not be enumerated in the Constitution, it still exists as a right not to be infringed upon.

If the citizenry of the U.S.A. feel a right is being infringed upon by their government, whether specified in any document or not... then IT IS!

Originally posted by Xcathdra
I have seen this comment used quite a bit by people lately and I am curious.

Exactly what rights have American citizens lost?
When did they lose those rights?

Im not looking for a fight or anything, but am curious as to what people are seeing in regards to this topic.

edit on 15-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: spelling

Well I have a question for you have you read the patriot act? If not maybe you should instead of posting threads on ATS.



And once you have read the patriot act think to yourself has this taken away any of my rights?

reply to post by Xcathdra


Did you just wake up from a coma? Rip Van Winkle is that you?

I have to ask or you are def and blind, perhaps you don't get a news paper or TV or?

en.wikipedia.org...

The USA PATRIOT Act (commonly known as the "Patriot Act") is an Act of the U.S. Congress that was signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001. The title of the act is a ten letter acronym (USA PATRIOT) that stands for: Uniting (and) Strengthening America (by) Providing Appropriate Tools Required (to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001.[1] The act, a response to the terrorist attacks of September 11th, dramatically reduced restrictions on law enforcement agencies' ability to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial, and other records; eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expanded the Secretary of the Treasury’s authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and broadened the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism-related acts. The act also expanded the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA PATRIOT Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied. On May 26, 2011, President Barack Obama signed a four-year extension of three key provisions in the USA PATRIOT Act: [2] roving wiretaps, searches of business records (the "library records provision"), and conducting surveillance of "lone wolves" — individuals suspected of terrorist-related activities not linked to terrorist groups

The joy of being groped and molested and exposing our naked body's as well


I can add on the never ending list but I will just let you just marinate with this, let it soak in a little.

The title of the thread should be: man wakes from 100 year nap has question

reply to post by Xcathdra


I feel like our rights to privacy have been lost, especially with the FBI agents all over place tapping our phones.

Originally posted by nightstalker78
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

None. Atleast I haven't. I go to work each day. I'm free to do whatever I choose.Whether it's taking my dog and daughter to the park or going and getting wasted with my buddies. Neither I nor anyone I know have 'tptb' breathing down my neck. I do what I want,when I want. Any amercian who thinks they've lost any rights should go live somewhere else for a while. I'll glady buy your plane ticket out.

Yeah it's all fun and games until you do what you want "something moral" like expose the unjust slaughter of Iraqi civilians then you are held indefinitely in a 6x6 box and tortured for it like Bradley Manning

Yes We Can

reply to post by Unvarnished


You mean like all those strange clicks and then the echo ? Yeah tell me about it. Im always saying "hello agents want to hear me have phone sex with my lady" then the clicking and echo stops for some reason.

Seriously im not joking

you can't lose something you never had.

With each new law passed you lose a right and/or some freedom.
This is how I've looked at this issue and it usually holds up.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
I have seen this comment used quite a bit by people lately and I am curious.

Exactly what rights have American citizens lost?
When did they lose those rights?

Im not looking for a fight or anything, but am curious as to what people are seeing in regards to this topic.

edit on 15-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: spelling

Right to privacy...via the Patriot Act...now no need for a warrant to tap your line, bug your house, video tape you home with hidden cameras etc.

reply to post by Xcathdra




Greetings all,
After reading through this entire thread, this is my opinion. I believe your contention is that the majority of Americans do not understand how their government works. I would agree with that for the most part. We, as citizens, have failed miserably by not being engaged in our government. But all the blame cannot be levied upon the voting population alone. Some of the responsibility falls upon our elected officials as well. For anyone who has studied our founders at all, we know that the intention was for our representatives to be chosen from among us. They should be made up of people from all walks of life; they should serve the term and then resume the life they were living prior to being elected.

For many reasons, human nature, laziness, ego, power trip or whatever most don't leave their office willingly. So then the responsibility falls back to the voter. On the surface, it is a simple system that should work, but it's not so simple. The problem is, an elected official (or party) entrenches itself. This is done in a number of ways. Just as an example I used to live in a county in NY that was run by a party machine for many, many years. I did some serious research into the size of the local government and found that nearly 25% or 1 in 4 of the working population worked for the government in some capacity. Then there is the pandering and corruption to solidify another voting block. Since the percentage of eligible voters who actually votes rarely exceeds 50%, they don't have to convince too many people.

Back to your what rights have been taken away question. We have not lost any "rights" as per a right being removed. What we have lost are liberties through legislation. Bills and laws are passed that infringe upon our rights. When people complain, it is these infringements they are complaining about. Because so many people don't understand how our government really works they don't see where these laws originate.

Just for a quick example, an insurance company lobbies for a mandatory seatbelt law or a helmet law or a smoking ban. This is the way most bills come about, politicians getting wined and dined into supporting a bill that will benefit some company that has spent millions to make that happen so they can then make more millions. It is naive to think that some congressmen are lying in bed tonight thinking about a bill to benefit the people. I know there are exceptions, but exceptions are what they are.

Things are changing though. What we are witnessing now is a revolution of sorts. The tea party was the beginning and OWS is a continuation of the same. I realize they are different but the catalyst is the same, people are fed up with a system that is not working. The great thing about all of this is these groups, and others to come, will be voting blocks and they will be heard, or at least I hope they will be heard. I do wish they would target the real problems. An educated voting population would be our politician’s worst nightmare.

Originally posted by UnholyBones
With each new law passed you lose a right and/or some freedom.
This is how I've looked at this issue and it usually holds up.

Legislation is not law, and at best, merely evidence of law. Legislation is no more law than the map is the territory or the word is the thing defined or a picture of Angelina Jolie is actually Angelina Jolie.

As long as we are willing to equate legislation with law, we will continue to have legislatures believing that every act of legislation that comes down the pike is law. Even when a court strikes that legislation down for being unlawful. Take note of the outrage by much of Congress and the POTUS over the SCOTUS's ruling in Citizen's United. Congress ignored the prohibition placed upon them by the First Amendment and stomped and cried and whined like a child when the Supreme Court rightfully struck it down.

If it is law, it is rooted in the protection of rights. If it fails to do this, it is not law.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by gwydionblack
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Individual rights are my rights to do WHATEVER THE HELL I WANT if you want to get technical. You sound like you believe rights are given to us by government, but that is wrong. Rights are inherent in us from birth, not because someone says they are, but because they simply are. When an entity seeks to regulate, control, or take away those birth given "rights" then they are "taking them away" and we are "losing" them.

This is exactly what he and other "what rights have you lost?" people believe.

The only rights that exist are granted by government. Should government repeal, regulate and re-frame these "rights" they still exist so you havent lost them. "Right" come with caveats, limitations, and applicable fees yet they are still "rights."

It's the fundamental divide between liberty and tyranny. This way tyrants can still defend "rights" as defined by their tyranny.

I'm all for the cause, but it's too many chiefs and not enough Indians. We aren't all leaders and visionaries. Pick a side and et in line.