Meta Analysis Potentially Demonstrating the Existence of 2012 Disinfo Agents

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Deetermined

 

So, Stereo, everyone's starting to realize that they can't rely on "truth" to come from government or science. Scientists will try to debunk all of their theories, just as you have, and they aren't buying it. They know that ancient civilizations relied more on God than we do, because they had more of a need to. So, when the Bible tells them to be looking for great earthquakes and signs from the heavens, that's exactly what they're going to do. The Bible says that life as we know it will come to an end and their spirits feel it. There is no "logical" or worldly explanation for that. I think the last Bible verse I posted (20) says it all, don't you?

This thread is intended to allow people to identify the 2012 disinfo agents and to give some reasoning for that.

For example, here you claim that I debunk all of their theories. Maybe I did or I did not. The issue here is really sorts of theories I debunked, or attacked, or whatever.

As to ancient civilizations and god I believe they were more in tune to gods. Isn't it possible that the religious issues had more to deal with a lack of knowledge of the world rather than anything else. As people learn more they move away from gods controlling the world to gods directing their spirituality and morality. At one point in time there was a simpler dichotomy of the sacred world and the non-sacred or profane world. A wall around the temple or the door to the temple or the rise to an elevated platform formed a barrier between the two.

These verses from one of the gospels of the new testament mentions events that can be detected. Suppose our quest is to detect great earthquakes. Can't we rely on science to do the detection. The same for these other statements of pestilence famine and signs from heaven? To that end I am not sure. The problem is the vagueness of the claims. What is a great sign from heaven? Is it a comet? Is it an impact? Is it an extraordinarily beautiful sunset?

My problem is that the bible is a terrible record of the world as we know it. Starting in genesis there are 2 creation myths. We know they are separate and different since they have the origin of life in different orders. Then there is the flood and today there is only evidence against a global flood. Take exodus. The archaeological record says no exodus in so many ways. With all of these major failures is there any reason to believe what is written by Luke probably 60 or 70 or more years after the death of Jesus?

What I do see in the bible is an important collection of life lessons. These are lessons that are possibly eternal. they apply to us and into the foreseeable future. As far as the history and prophecy go I don't buy into it since the history seems to be wrong.

Yes, I believe there are disinfo agents. Anything discussing corruption or deception from our government or the end of the world via some source that our government may know about would be reason to try and shut down any "rumors". Not sure how you would go about detecting who's who though. There are a lot of people doing research on the internet trying to find the "truth", and with so many available sources, it's hard to tell.

I too believe that ancient civilizations were more in tune to God and I think people are trying to find their way back there because they "feel" the need to. Their spirits are talking to them to prepare them for what's to come.

I'm not sure I understand what the 2 creation myths are that you talk about in the Bible. As for the archaeological record, it's imperfect, God isn't. Luke was inspired by God, archaeology isn't. God will only allow archaeologists to dig up the truth when he's ready for man to know what it is. For now, God wants us to practice faith.

Tell me again what part of the history of the Bible is wrong. Please share more.

Don't flatter yourself with the disinfo agent thing.

The government doesn't give 2 #'s about whether you believe there's a conspiracy or not. They're not worried about anyone on this board panicing, let alone blowing the proverbial whistle. Have at it though. Knock yourself out with your inflated importance.

Your disinfo agents are just informed folks peddling common sense and actual facts. The nerve.

Originally posted by ColAngus
Don't flatter yourself with the disinfo agent thing.

The government doesn't give 2 #'s about whether you believe there's a conspiracy or not. They're not worried about anyone on this board panicing, let alone blowing the proverbial whistle. Have at it though. Knock yourself out with your inflated importance.

Your disinfo agents are just informed folks peddling common sense and actual facts. The nerve.

As for the government, there are too many reports of Facebook and Twitter interfering with accounts that are promoting the "Occupy Wall Street" protests. I do believe that they are trying to control information at least in that area. However, I don't believe Stereo understands why so many people are rejecting traditional science right now and searching for new answers.

reply to post by Deetermined

I'm not sure I understand what the 2 creation myths are that you talk about in the Bible. As for the archaeological record, it's imperfect, God isn't. Luke was inspired by God, archaeology isn't. God will only allow archaeologists to dig up the truth when he's ready for man to know what it is. For now, God wants us to practice faith.

Tell me again what part of the history of the Bible is wrong. Please share more.

Creation in Genesis. There are 2 stories there. That's fairly obvious. Are they the same or a recap is the issue?
In myth 1 we have people made after plants. In myth 2 we have man made before plants. Obviously they are different myths.

The archaeological record is interesting because it does not support the bible. Consider exodus.
1. Egypt never has a large population of Hebrew slaves
2. The bible itself never mentions the pyramids
3. Egypt never suffers a large economic loss from the loss of all of the slaves as claimed by the bible
4. Egypt never suffers a large military power loss as claimed by the bible
5. There is no evidence of a large number of people living in the desert as claimed by the bible
6. There is no archaeological evidence for the cities of Canaan being sieged by an aggressor, rather evidence for internal insurrection

So when people look for the things described in the bible they do not find them.

I believe that only evidence outside of the bible for the house of David is a stela discovered in 1998 that mentions someone winning a war over a king of the house of David. Yes, the archaeological record is sparse. Should so much potential evidence be missing from a search for exodus? I don't believe so and neither do most archaeologists. Only the people trying to fudge the evidence see support. It simply isn't there. The evidence suggests that the historical claims in the bible were changed to make the stories more interesting such as being slaves of Egypt instead of being slaves wherever they actually were.

reply to post by Deetermined

As for the government, there are too many reports of Facebook and Twitter interfering with accounts that are promoting the "Occupy Wall Street" protests. I do believe that they are trying to control information at least in that area. However, I don't believe Stereo understands why so many people are rejecting traditional science right now and searching for new answers.

There have always been rebellions against innovation. I believe most is based on sloth. It is actually nontrivial to learn something new and fascinating. People want the easy button. The easy button sometimes begins with signing up for hoaxes.

reply to post by stereologist


Let's also not forget the lack of geological evidence for the Great Flood. We could also cover how it would be impossible to fit two of every animal on Noah's Ark.

reply to post by Xcalibur254




Yea RIGHT!

reply to post by Angelicdefender2012


So you don't believe the person who created the April Fool's joke when they say it is an April Fool's joke in the very post where they made the April Fool's joke? This seems to be becoming a bigger and bigger problem where people willfully reject the primary sources of a claim because it ruins their theory.

reply to post by stereologist


I'm not sure I've ever heard of man being created after land, unless you're referring to the fact that the earth was in existence but was formless, empty, dark and covered in water.

Day 1 = Light
Day 2 = Separation of Water from the Sky
Day 3 = Land
Day 4 = Separation of Day and Night
Day 5 = Living Creatures
Day 6 = Man
Day 7 = Rest

reply to post by Deetermined


I did not say land I stated plants. Your list of days is from myth 1.

1:11 plants day 3
1:26 man day 6

In chapter 2 the events are reversed with man made first.

In chapter 1 man and woman are created at the same time
In chapter 2 man is made and then woman made

In chapter 1 animals are made before man
In chapter 2 animals are made after man

Clearly the stories present incompatible orders, i.e. there are 2 different creation myths.

reply to post by ColAngus


You have really hit the nail on the (aluminum foil covered) head, Colonel. Why would any agency or entity waste resources, time and energy developing and posting "disinfo" on this site (or others like it)? Even the most astonishing revelation by anyone here concerning a cover-up, foretelling the future, or some widespread amazing conspiracy would go un-noticed by the media, the powers that be, and an overwhelming majority of just plain people.

A brief glimpse at the titles of the forums here alone tells anyone that the posters are just plain a little loony and only post here because they are amongst "thier own kind".

However, this site is interesting (and I say this because of the tired challenges that will now be made will state"Why are you looking at a site like this if you hate it so much?!") exactly because it is a look at a group of people and their thoughts that are very much in the minority but have great imaginations. The ability of folks to self-delude and then trumpet that delusion to their own special group is a great thing to observe and marvel at.

I appreciate ATS and sites like it for what they are; entertainment and a great way to observe human behaviors outside the norm. What is funny is that the group here, while insisting that no one should conform to anything, immediately then demands that everyone posting must indeed conform or be ridiculed. To comment thatalmost all people are not "sheeple", or that the mass conspiracies they see just can't really exist, or that the famous "TPTB" are not actually monitoring this stuff (at all) or even more importantly, are really NOT concerned one iota about the information here - is blasphemy!

"Oh my god - I am not that important? - NOOOOOOOOO!"

Of course, given my handle - MAYBE I am just just spreading a little bit of disinfo at the bidding of my evil numerlogical masters!

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Deetermined

 

I did not say land I stated plants. Your list of days is from myth 1.

1:11 plants day 3
1:26 man day 6

In chapter 2 the events are reversed with man made first.

In chapter 1 man and woman are created at the same time
In chapter 2 man is made and then woman made

In chapter 1 animals are made before man
In chapter 2 animals are made after man

Clearly the stories present incompatible orders, i.e. there are 2 different creation myths.

Chapter 2 obviously starts out with a brief recap of Chapter 1 before going in to detail. As you will notice, Chapter 2 verses 4 thru 5 are a detailed account of what existed in Chapter 1 verses 1 thru 2. They both are referring back to when the "heavens and the earth" were created before he put anything on the earth.

As for man and woman, Chapter 1 focuses on the fact that God created man and woman from his own image. It's not until Chapter 2 verse 7 that detail is given as to how God created man and verses 21 thru 22 that it goes into detail as to how he created woman.

As for the animals, Chapter 2 verse 19 stated that God "had formed" the animals, as in the past. The Bible is only going back and recapping the creation of the animals because it leads into the story of God bringing the animals to Adam in order for Adam to name them all. Adam names all of the animals before God took one of his "ribs" to create woman.

So to answer your questions in summary, parts of Chapter 2 recap with more detail the events that took place in Chapter 1.

As for archaeological proof of the Exodus from Egypt, I'm not much of a text book historian, but I did find this link from the "Institute for Bible and Scientific Studies" that might help:

Biblical Archaeology: Evidence of the Exodus from Egypt

www.bibleandscience.com...

reply to post by Deetermined


The usual answer is that chapter 2 is details concerning chapter 1. But the order is different. If the order were the same then we might consider this to be adding details, but that is not the case.

If I were to state that I went outside and filled the bird feeders and then it began to rain; then I returned to my house and painted a room then that is a story.

If I claimed that it rained and so I painted a room; later I went outside and filled the birdfeeders then I'd have a similar but different story.

Notice that in creation myth 1 man and woman are made together. 1:27
Notice that in creation myth 2 man is made, then animals, and then woman. 2:18-22

The bible offers 2 similar, but different creation stories.

reply to post by Deetermined


The Merneptah stele does nothing other than show that Israel was defeated in battle with Egypt. Thus it marks a point in time in which we know Israel exists. Going down the list of items notice that there is nothing showing:
1. large number of Hebrew slaves in Egypt
2. the pyramids are not mentioned in the bible
3. no loss of economic might or military might by Egypt
4. etc.

You go down the readings and nothing there is providing support for exodus.

A ways down you run into this comment.

A date earlier than 1481 BC is needed for the Exodus.

Go back up and see that the Merneptah stele is from 1208BC. You might ask yourself why anything above was listed? In the conclusion it suggests that there is nothing here other than trying to fix a possible date for an event that seems to be missing from the archaeological record.

You see the same sort of thing being done with Noah's flood. There is no geological evidence for a global flood yet you bump into all sorts of people trying to decide which pharaoh to drown as they bandy about dates.

You obviously skipped through all of the information without reading it thoroughly. There is an explanation for everything you mentioned in the link and you're choosing to overlook it or you're not reading it at all. For example, the article explains at least twice how the dates for the Exodus were changed based on previous theories, they didn't try to make it fit. You're trying to deceive anyone else from reading it. Are you sure you're not one of those disinfo agents?

I can't explain your inability to read the Bible and understand it. There are MANY repeats in the Bible. Some of the same stories are told in different books as well. I obviously can't help you with that.

I have only 2 things to say to this thread:

1. Pretty ironic that you would start it Stereologist given you are one of the ones often accused.

2. Where's your evidence that all of these claims are false? I'd like peer reviewed papers proving that each of the claims you mentioned are false.

reply to post by Cecilofs


Unlike goofy claims such as lens flares that are demonstrably false the claims here cannot be proved one way or the other. I have been asked many times if I work for the government. I do not comment. Here is a thread where people can do more than make idle claims about people being disinfo agents. Don't just label someone. Give a reason for the label.

reply to post by Deetermined

You obviously skipped through all of the information without reading it thoroughly. There is an explanation for everything you mentioned in the link and you're choosing to overlook it or you're not reading it at all. For example, the article explains at least twice how the dates for the Exodus were changed based on previous theories, they didn't try to make it fit. You're trying to deceive anyone else from reading it. Are you sure you're not one of those disinfo agents?

The dates are only 1 issue. They are not the important issues. There is no evidence that exodus ever happened.

Dates have been bandied about for all sorts of biblical claims. Picking a date for an event that has no evidence is hardly showing that the event existed.

I can't explain your inability to read the Bible and understand it. There are MANY repeats in the Bible. Some of the same stories are told in different books as well. I obviously can't help you with that.

There are lots of different interpretations of the bible. Are you now trying to provide an alternative interpretation of exodus and the flood to fake your way past the failure of these events and others in the bible?

No matter what date is chosen there is no time in which Egypt had a large Hebrew slave population. Picking a date does not change that fact.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Deetermined

 

You obviously skipped through all of the information without reading it thoroughly. There is an explanation for everything you mentioned in the link and you're choosing to overlook it or you're not reading it at all. For example, the article explains at least twice how the dates for the Exodus were changed based on previous theories, they didn't try to make it fit. You're trying to deceive anyone else from reading it. Are you sure you're not one of those disinfo agents?

The dates are only 1 issue. They are not the important issues. There is no evidence that exodus ever happened.

Dates have been bandied about for all sorts of biblical claims. Picking a date for an event that has no evidence is hardly showing that the event existed.

I can't explain your inability to read the Bible and understand it. There are MANY repeats in the Bible. Some of the same stories are told in different books as well. I obviously can't help you with that.

There are lots of different interpretations of the bible. Are you now trying to provide an alternative interpretation of exodus and the flood to fake your way past the failure of these events and others in the bible?

No matter what date is chosen there is no time in which Egypt had a large Hebrew slave population. Picking a date does not change that fact.

Once again, you've proven that you haven't read the linked article. Secondly, my mention of your inability to understand what you read in the Bible was based on your incoherent argument for Genesis after I explained it to you, and yet you still chose to disregard it. I can only gather that you either have no understanding of what's written or you have a problem in understanding others' communication.