Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

Hi Antar - yes, that's what I mean - they're danged either way.

Yes..unfortunately they have been danged either way for many things throughout this case as well as this thread.

and there are those who have made a large effort in "danging" either way.. that will now try to appear like they are concerned about them..

I find that odd..

At any rate.. My biggest wish is that these parents , and their friends and families find out what has happened to their baby girl, because they will be going through hell everyday until they know.. and they have been through enough already..

Wow we've already passed her birthday and her brother's birthday. Amazing how time has flown.

I can't help thinking about my first post here and how it's always stayed with me.

I so hope we're not looking at another tragedy as Casey Anthony. How sad it is that's the first thing that comes to mind - the mother or father is at fault and corrupt - instead of an immediate wish to offer sympathy.

Anyone here on ATS in that area that can give us some updates???

Prayers to family and friends but mostly that little baby girl. Let's all hope for a safe quick recovery of Lisa Irwin.

I still hope, as I have from day one, we're not looking at another C.A case here. Terrible how that's the first thing we think of now in today's society. As we have today - with the little boy gone missing in the same way as Lisa, and now him being found dead - and it's far to easy to jump to the conclusion of a possible serial killer.

How tragic.

So keep up the updates everyone and I hope you all are still praying - as I am and many of us are - and have been from day one, for the family, and for little Lisa and he police who are doing all they can with what little they've been given to find this little girl.

peace

reply to post by silo13


I entered this thread to try and stop people from bashing on the Irwin's before all the evidence was presented.. and I was bashed by some members for not "seeing the obvious" , and ridiculed and my motherhood attacked...none of those posts taken down I might add.

There are those who are showing their true colors by trying to do some serious "damage control" for what they have posted.. and now seemingly pretending they have never been ignorant enough to blame anybody..

I have been called a narcissist..a mother with no heart... yet those posts stay up..

I take accountability for what I have said, not like some on here...and I don't go whining to the mods.. when my feelings have been hurt..

Some can't seem to handle the truth of their own actions..and yet blame others for actions they are far more guilty of.

Some need to take accountability for what they have said.. and the kind of special treatment they think they deserve..it's nauseating to see.

Originally posted by silo13
I still hope, as I have from day one, we're not looking at another C.A case here. Terrible how that's the first thing we think of now in today's society. As we have today - with the little boy gone missing in the same way as Lisa, and now him being found dead - and it's far to easy to jump to the conclusion of a possible serial killer.

How tragic.

I agree with that Silo. Unfortunately for me it was the Susan Smith case that turned the tide of thinking what mothers are and are not capable of. I still do not think anyone killed Lisa intentionally, but history has shown it does happen.

OiO

reply to post by gabby2011


I think also that not knowing is the truest form of curse for a family, in one respect you would want to simply reboot your soul, to just die. But you cannot out of loyalty to the other children left behind, and for one day the hope that the Baby will be returned and in need of you.

reply to post by OneisOne

I agree with that Silo. Unfortunately for me it was the Susan Smith case that turned the tide of thinking what mothers are and are not capable of. I still do not think anyone killed Lisa intentionally, but history has shown it does happen.

It's really tough that - especially when Lisa's mother has changed her story 6 or more times now and still will not sit down with the police separate from Jeremy. It makes it very tough - thanks to not only her own negligence and inconsistencies, but like you said, living in a 'Susan Smith/Anthony' world.

Lately I'm finding some peace in knowing time is on Lisa's side. Someone's going to 'slip up' - or 'talk - or as time facilitates - the truth comes out. So, now comes the hard part of waiting.

Take care - peace

reply to post by antar

I think also that not knowing is the truest form of curse for a family, in one respect you would want to simply reboot your soul, to just die. But you cannot out of loyalty to the other children left behind, and for one day the hope that the Baby will be returned and in need of you.

I can't imagine living in that kind of hell. But you're right, loving, caring parents know no other way of thinking, no other way of being, can't imagine any other life than to go on day after day and night after night hoping and praying their child is still alive.

That's just what parents do. It's the blessing/curse of truly loving your child - knowing no matter what price you pay, the pain you go through, you just keep up the faith - that your child is still out there somewhere alive.

That's what we can all hope for Lisa. It tough, I know. But what other rational loving caring compassionate unselfish choice is there? The unthinkable - rathering your child is dead so you can sleep well at night? Nope.

Love and Light to Lisa!

peace

For anyone interested they're doing a (I believe live) conference at 2pm regarding Tyler Dasher, what his autopsy showed, and the charges against his mother. Here's one of the live links that will carry it...
Live Feed

I've found a few new links regarding Lisa...first one from Ron Rugen...the PI from Kansas. Mainly just his thoughts on his blog. A few bits and pieces in this blog that we haven't heard about yet (but with no verification other than this guys word...so grain of salt as usual)

The Baby Lisa Case: More Information, More Questions

The more information that comes out about the Lisa Irwin missing baby case, the more questions that come up. And I mean on all sides of the argument. There are a lot of questions I have this morning that I would like to have the answers to so this could all in some way make sense.

A video showing parents moving back home
Lisa Irwin's Parents Move Back Home

Follow up with lawyer:
Baby Lisa's Parents Come Home, Lawyer Talks

reply to post by gabby2011


I think the most LIKELY scenario is that Lisa' s parents, at least her mom , is involved. I don't swear that's what happened. I don't ' just know she did it'. I think it's the strongest possibility. Historically it's what usually ends up happening with these cases. I would say my current mind is divided probably close to 50% mom did it and/or with dad's help . Maybe 25% that one of the neighbors/family/group of 8 acquaintances did it and anther 25% that a complete stranger did it. I don't think its' bashing to think mom did it. But I do know where you're coming from as deb's endured a lot of name calling etc. I initially thought for sure it was her, probably 90%. But as time goes by the more info or LACK of info that we get, the more I'm open to the other possibilities. Now I would say overall that's not too bad. I woudl say if I were a member of the KCPD and allowed a full 50% of my mind to consider suspects OTHER THAN DEB, that would be pretty good.
But I am leaning towards Davids line of thinking that KCPD has tunnel vision on this. They have to investigate the parents, they have TO. But if they are doing it at the exclusion of everyone else, then that's not fair. When you only look one direction, you'd better hope its the RIGHT direction, KCPD. Until we know what happened to baby Lisa, you cannot discount the other leads. So i hope if Kcpd is tunnel visioned on the Family then that is where the answers are because it will turn up Lisa.


And agreed with Silo, kudos the St Louis area PD for quickly finding baby Tyler

reply to post by schmae

But as time goes by the more info or LACK of info that we get, the more I'm open to the other possibilities.

And the more time goes on and the less information we get I can't help but think the parents are hiding something that's more than relevant. I'm not talking murder or baby selling. I just can't see the reason for anyone to stay so quiet if they've got nothing to hide.

I know you've said they're 'simple folk' relying heavily on their counsel and you've given me some insight into that situation that lets me agree with you. But as time goes by? Wouldn't the 'simple folk' being in 'awe' of the 'big city lawyer' begin to wear off at some point? And all this time - no Lisa? I mean, if they are innocent I can (almost) understand they'd follow the lawyers advice, but at some point don't you think they'd just say - following Tacopina's advice is NOT getting our baby back - let's just go to the police despite him?

I dunno, I just can't get over their continued silence.

Tell me you have some great ideas why they refuse to be interviewed separately!

peace

reply to post by schmae

But I am leaning towards Davids line of thinking that KCPD has tunnel vision on this. They have to investigate the parents, they have TO. But if they are doing it at the exclusion of everyone else, then that's not fair. When you only look one direction, you'd better hope its the RIGHT direction, KCPD. Until we know what happened to baby Lisa, you cannot discount the other leads. So i hope if Kcpd is tunnel visioned on the Family then that is where the answers are because it will turn up Lisa.

Yes.. lets hope that they have done everything in their power to investigate all possibilities.. and have some very good info and reasoning for appearing to let certain people just disappear out of the picture.

Yes the parents have to be looked at..but at a time like this you also have to consider what kind of stress you are putting people through that are going through a very traumatic time, as well as what the best methods are to extract a confession from a parent in a scenario such as this.

Baby Lisa is still missing...and she should still be the strong focus of an investigating team.. one that is working all angles diligently ..with hope that they can find some new leads.. other clues..

reply to post by silo13

That's what we can all hope for Lisa. It tough, I know. But what other rational loving caring compassionate unselfish choice is there? The unthinkable - rathering your child is dead so you can sleep well at night? Nope.

I'm sorry.. but what you see as unthinkable I see as compassion and empathy.

I would rather see a child in heaven with loving spirits... than live decades of being abused and tortured at the hands of twisted minds..and made to be a robotic mind controlled slave dealing drugs and sex for the wicked..

Its about knowing the child is sleeping well at night..and living without the pain that shatters the soul...not about what makes me sleep better at night.

You call it whatever you want.. but I don't see death as the ultimate terrible thing for an innocent child.. but I do see much pain and horror for an innocent child who has been abducted for the purposes of the twisted...and the damage to a soul over many decades.

The death of little Tyler Dasher and the arrest and confession of his mother for his murder is EXACTLY why police must first RULE OUT parental involvement in these cases. Most of the time it IS the parent. That's a stat you can take to the bank and that is why the cops have spent so much and why most of us, me included, have been pretty convinced a parent is involved.
Thirty years ago parental involvement would be almost the last thing anyone would suspect, but the nation is raising a bunch of selfish, greedy, uncaring idiots who have no business parenting.
I'm super upset today and to Deb, if you are 100 % innocent, I BEG of your fogiveness , but if you are GUILTY of doing anything to your baby , may you never sleep a night again !

Hi folks. Back from my holiday.

Well, who'd have thought this thread would have gone on so long? I'm very sorry to see we're no further forward in finding out if poor little baby Irwin is alive or dead but I'm glad to see the tide has changed for the better regarding her parents. We're out of the gutter and looking more on the brighter side and I'm sure that'll help and not hinder the outcome. Silage especially has shown much more compassion for them in recent posts. Well done, I knew you'd come around. No more "baby with the creepy eyes" talk, I hope,

And I'd like to apologise for calling someone a naughty name, and say special thanks to them for editing the nasty comment that caused my outburst in the first place. I'm guessing that poster was female and can understand how a missing baby can bring out some passionate postings in a thread.


I wish it was over with but I like to keep hoping that positive thinking could bring the case to a positive conclusion. It's like Schrodinger's cat locked in his box with his bottle of poison. Is Lisa Irwin alive or dead? When does she become one or the other? At the minute she is both and all us conscious observers just might be responsible for what happens next.

If the case drags on and on though, like the Maddie McCann one has, I'm sure as Gabby has already said that ANY closure would be better than none at all for mum & dad. But let's stick to them positive waves and hope she's home and healthy very soon.

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011

 

But I am leaning towards Davids line of thinking that KCPD has tunnel vision on this. They have to investigate the parents, they have TO. But if they are doing it at the exclusion of everyone else, then that's not fair.  When you only look one direction, you'd better hope its the RIGHT direction, KCPD. Until we know what happened to baby Lisa, you cannot discount the other leads. So i hope if Kcpd is tunnel visioned on the Family then that is where the answers are because it will turn up Lisa. 


And agreed with Silo, kudos the St Louis area PD for quickly finding baby Tyler

 

What do you hear in this?

"You can speculate on (whether) she was taken and abducted and whatever, but you concentrate on what is probable, what most likely happened here, and see where that takes you," Bernard said.  Read more: www.kmbc.com...

That is an acknowledgement by a lead  investigator that KCPD is NOT following where the case leads, but rather concentrating (focusing their effort) on the most probable, (what they believe happen). When you acknowledge a willingness to focus on the most probable, you are simultaneously acknowledging a willingness to ignore less probable things for a time. Dane comes to mind, as just one example. It is most probable that the parents did it, so KCPD ignores the connection to Dane when Dane first surfaces. Now KCPD decides to go back once again to pursue Dane, but Dane has had ample time to flee...this is the mindset of one who has limited resources, and is willing to roll the dice! What evidence has been lost, compromised, and destroyed, because someone made the choice not to pursue now? We can go back to the beginning and wonder where we might be now, if the choice had not been made to check sewers, and landfills during those precious first 48 hours that can never be recovered! 

reply to post by wigit


Welcome back wigit.. and I agree.. lets hope this has a happy outcome soon..

Originally posted by Dav1d



What do you hear in this?

"You can speculate on (whether) she was taken and abducted and whatever, but you concentrate on what is probable, what most likely happened here, and see where that takes you," Bernard said.  Read more: www.kmbc.com...

That sounds like lazy policing, if he means that exactly how it reads then it's quite unforgivable. And I wish he wouldn't say he thinks the baby is dead. Don't these folk think the parents might hear that stuff?

Originally posted by Dav1d
What do you hear in this?

"You can speculate on (whether) she was taken and abducted and whatever, but you concentrate on what is probable, what most likely happened here, and see where that takes you," Bernard said.  Read more: www.kmbc.com...

That is an acknowledgement by a lead  investigator that KCPD is NOT following where the case leads, but rather concentrating (focusing their effort) on the most probable, (what they believe happen). When you acknowledge a willingness to focus on the most probable, you are simultaneously acknowledging a willingness to ignore less probable things for a time. Dane comes to mind, as just one example. It is most probable that the parents did it, so KCPD ignores the connection to Dane when Dane first surfaces. Now KCPD decides to go back once again to pursue Dane, but Dane has had ample time to flee...this is the mindset of one who has limited resources, and is willing to roll the dice! What evidence has been lost, compromised, and destroyed, because someone made the choice not to pursue now? We can go back to the beginning and wonder where we might be now, if the choice had not been made to check sewers, and landfills during those precious first 48 hours that can never be recovered! 

While I appreciate the point you are making David, that was not spoken by a lead investigator on this case.

From your link:

A recently retired Kansas City police officer knows what investigators are facing. As a sergeant in the department's homicide unit, Dave Bernard dealt with a major case of his own.

Bernard retired from the Kansas City Police Department in September, just days before Lisa Irwin vanished. He doesn't have inside information on the case, but he said he knows from experience how police and FBI agents are approaching the case.

Like I said, I understand your point, but he has not been involved with this case.
OiO

Originally posted by schmae
The death of little Tyler Dasher and the arrest and confession of his mother for his murder is EXACTLY why police must first RULE OUT parental involvement in these cases.

Sadly even though this sounds good it is a fallacy! There is NO meaningful way to exclude the parents until you actually KNOW what happen to Lisa and when.

Most of the time it IS the parent.

So let's say for purpose of argument that 95% of the time it is a parent. Do we automatically take all parents in missing kid cases and hang them on the assumption they did it? Do we say the taxpayers money by assuming the child is dead?

That's a stat you can take to the bank and that is why the cops have spent so much and why most of us, me included, have been pretty convinced a parent is involved.
Thirty years ago parental involvement would be almost the last thing anyone would suspect, but the nation is raising a bunch of selfish, greedy, uncaring idiots who have no business parenting.
I'm super upset today and to Deb, if you are 100 % innocent, I BEG of your fogiveness , but if you are GUILTY of doing anything to your baby , may you never sleep a night again !

Stats can be manipulated, people can be manipulated, the average joe when looked in the eye and told you are going to prision, your only choice is the rest of your mesirable life in a hellhole, or a few years in a not so bad place, will take the not so bad place. The goverment can sway the stats. The goverment when it wishes to prove a point has unlimited resources.

reply to post by Dav1d


David, I did not say , imply or even think that we HANG the parents every time. This is you putting words into my mouth. Parents do it most of the time which is why parents must be looked at . If you think the stats are false, that's fine. Just look at the last 10 years how many missing children were found to be parental involvement. Thats your own memory. Trust it if you won't trust the stats.