Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

Originally posted by Human_Alien
I'm reading other forums in an attempt to 'catch up' on this case but the more I read the less I know.
But I gotta tell you, some of the theories I am reading really makes sense (even when they contradict the previous ones I've read).
This is the one I like best:
(this is not mine)




The baby was sold and the abduction story is the cover story. The Irwins were desperate for money, figured they could always have "another" and didn't want to deal with legal adoption and family/friends' criticism.

This is a popular theory, but one I find incredibly flawed.
Many babies are taken each year, yet not all of them continue to make the news day after day.
The Irwins would need to be incrediblely stupid to believe they could go on TV, and beg for their child's return and NOT lower that child's value. I find it unlikely that someone willing to "buy" a child, would be so foolish as to support the "seller" in making a public spectical out of their newly acquired child. If you just bought a child, would you really want your child's picture plastered all over the Internet and TV? As long as Lisa is missing, the Irwins will be view with suspicion do you actually believe they could receive a large amount of unexplained cash, in the next few months and not be question about the source of it? Do you truly think a "buyer" is going to be unaware that the goverment tracks large money transfers? The Local Police and the FBI are now involved, I'd suggest that any sigificant transfer of money to the Irwins will result in the source being checked out.

The "benefactor" is someone who is protecting the "buyer" and the "seller" (the Irwins).

Just what do you believe this baby is worth? There is a $100,000.00 reward, how generous do you believe the Irwin's are, are you suggesting they would be willing to give away 10% 20%, 30% of Lisa's value?

The 100,000 Dollar reward assures that the people involved get information and tips first.

Real quick what is the number to get the tip?

The legal fees are paid for the Irwins to assure that they do not speak to police alone, break down and confess.

Fees at the tune of $750.00 an hour? So you are in effect accusing a famous Lawyer, of a crime? Well technically multiple crimes as he/they are officers of the court??

So - the date is set to turn over the baby to the "buyer" and fake an abduction.
The mother gets good and drunk so that she can deal with what she's doing.

And the fact that she is good and drunk just slips her mind? Remember this did not emerge at first...

It is arranged that the father is working so that he has an alibi.
The baby is put to bed early, later her clothes are removed so that she leaves without any clothing that could tie her to the Irwins.
Someone close to the Irwins takes the baby around midnight and walks down the street with her, along the way dumping the clothes and setting them on fire (false lead).

So you've got the Irwins involved, the buyer, the donor, the Lawyers, the person who takes Lisa, and what yet another person planting false leads? Or the actual person with Lisa, wandering around calling attention to themselves and hoping they don't get caught with Lisa? That is an awful lot of people to keep a seceret for the next twenty to thirty years, people with the potential to blackmail....

Now just how much does it actually cost to buy a surrogate mother, and implant her? My guess is significantly less than what you have spent....

It maybe a nice theory, but it doesn't hold up, in my opinion...

And you have a baby you just paid $200,000.00 plus for going out into the night air, naked for a long walk, risking her coming down with a cold. And your going to show up at a doctor, with a ten month old girl child, that you just acquired? One a doctor knows he didn't deliver, and can't get birth records for?

A child that leaves without any clothing, but her clothing is burned by the guy carrying her around.... Trying to be seen?

reply to post by Human_Alien

kidnapping a child, especially a boy (where you can't 'rape' him) and finding him dead the next day, to me shows someone who did not care for this child or had revenge for a family member.

I really wish I didn't have to post this but when needs arise... Baby boys can in fact be raped. It's better for you just to believe the fact and in this case DON'T look for confirmation. You will not like that you find.

I'd agree finding the baby dead in the woods (if in fact it's him I've not read on much more to find out if it is the missing boy or another child) - anyway, finding him dead in the woods would lead someone to believe there might have been some revenge issues - but against children. I can't see clear to someone murdering an infant for revenge against the family - but you never know.

peace

reply to post by schmae

Supposing there is a serial abductor ........and cops KNOW and they thought Hmmm, the baby will be in the woods? I know Im grasping. But you see what I mean? Look for Lisa there , no luck. Immediately look for baby boy there and he's there.
These 2 have to be connected.

When you put it like that is surely makes it seem so doesn't it. I can't imagine the police would 'know' something like this and not alert the public to take extra special care of their infants - but - you never know. That's the problem - you just never know. Something that just came to mind also - I want to go back and read why there's a new police chief - why the previous Chief left. I'm just thinking out loud here, it might be nothing more than his/her retirement.

peace

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by schmae

 

Supposing there is a serial abductor ........and cops KNOW and they thought Hmmm, the baby will be in the woods? I know Im grasping. But you see what I mean? Look for Lisa there , no luck. Immediately look for baby boy there and he's there.
These 2 have to be connected.

When you put it like that is surely makes it seem so doesn't it. I can't imagine the police would 'know' something like this and not alert the public to take extra special care of their infants - but - you never know. That's the problem - you just never know. Something that just came to mind also - I want to go back and read why there's a new police chief - why the previous Chief left. I'm just thinking out loud here, it might be nothing more than his/her retirement.

peace

It has been reported this boy was found NOT by the police, but rather by a couple walking their dog. Where he was, was NOT in the woods, but on the edge of the woods... In effect he could be seen from the road...

Video here:

Lisa's parents (family) move back home.

Video at link

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Lisa Irwin’s parents are moving back to their Kansas City home in the Northland, their New York-based lawyer said Tuesday.

The move, confirmed by attorney Joe Tacopina, comes seven weeks after the now-1-year-old girl disappeared.

Tacopina said the family is trying to regain a sense of normalcy for the other two children

I remember a while back the ‘Brad-Wins’ saying they were moving out for good. Can you blame them? I’ve a feeling the custody case for Blake has something to do with their decision to go back home. Best thing for the boys though. I would hope.

On the other hand I hope someone is giving those boys some real psychological support. They know their sister ‘disappeared’ from her bed? I hope they’re not living in fear some ‘boogeyman’ is going to come snatch them up some night. Poor kids. Can’t win either way, living in a new home or returning to this one.

Police said Tuesday they are still in talks with Lisa’s parents to set up separate interviews with them, something that has not been done since Oct. 8.

Last Friday, John Picerno, the local attorney also representing Lisa’s parents, said they have remained open to answering investigators’ questions, but they would not “let our clients be subjected to interrogation techniques.”

Investigators also want to bring in Lisa’s half-brothers to collect DNA samples. The boys were interviewed last week for the first time since the day Lisa disappeared.

Police have not publicly named a suspect, but Picerno said last week investigators told Lisa’s parents they consider them suspects, and are specifically focused on Lisa’s mother, Deborah Bradley.

I wish they'd just do the separate interviews and get it over with! If your innocent - clear yourselves and let's focus on LISA!

peace

Originally posted by silo13

I remember a while back the ‘Brad-Wins’ saying they were moving out for good.

Do the family refer to themselves as the 'Brad-Wins'? As far as I can remember this is a mocking name that came from a hostile reporter.

Originally posted by silo13

I wish they'd just do the separate interviews and get it over with! If your innocent - clear yourselves and let's focus on LISA!

It is not possible to 'clear yourself' in an interview with a hostile police officer. What could they say that they have not already said? The only thing that can happen is that they get more confused and make more statements that can be twisted around as 'changing the story again'. Their legal representation is totally in the right here. They have said what they know. If the police have any evidence that they are guilty they should charge them.

reply to post by labyrinth101

Thanks for your opinion. As for 'Brad-Win'? I started using it ages ago here in the thread and do so with no insult intended at all. I didn't realize journalists have done so with scorn. What a shame.

As for the 'hostile' police? I'd be interested (besides the unfounded obvious bias and mockery pointed at the police here in this thread) why you (seem to) believe the police are 'hostile' - and if you have anything to back it up this belief with other than opinion? I'm truly curious.

What could they say that they have not already said?

Obviously, the police, who's job it is to solve this case - believe there's a great deal more to be said or they - obviously - wouldn't still be trying for separate interviews. If these parents are innocent they should have no hesitation - at all. And their lawyers? It's not their child that's missing. The 'Brad-Wins' should be doing all they can for their daughter - lawyers be hanged.

peace

Omg omg omg...........new development???????? not sure..but is it possible we have a serial baby killer?!


www.dailymail.co.uk...

Baby Tyler...stolen from his crib...after 10:30pm....witnesses say they saw a man walking down the street with a baby wrapped in a blanket. He was found killed in the woods several hours later.

Everyone...this is in St. Louis Mo! only 4 hours from where baby Lisa was taken.

reply to post by Nkinga

Thank you Nkinga, we've been on pins and needles waiting to see if there are any possible similarities.
Thank you and welcome to the thread.
peace

reply to post by silo13

Obviously, the police, who's job it is to solve this case - believe there's a great deal more to be said or they - obviously - wouldn't still be trying for separate interviews.

Obviously the police are beating a dead horse here..and if they really cared about Lisa they would have been following other leads..and still doing so with persistence.

The Irwins have told them everything they know..and because of the tactics the police have used with them, its their own fault that the Irwin's don't want to be interviewed separately.

I wouldn't take kindly to police lying to me about what my spouse has said.. and causing trouble in my relationship, when I am aching for them to go find the "real" abductors. To the Irwins it could very well seem like more time spent hashing over things they've already told them, being lied to and trapped...all for nothing when they know they are innocent.

The police are responsible for the Irwins not talking separately...not the Irwin's..

The police are responsible for baby Lisa not being found... not the Irwin's.

Parallels between Affton and KC baby disappearances

This is an all video report.

Though it's hard to ignore the parallels the police are saying a connection is unlikely.



Praying for peace for these parents - all of them.

peace

Baby Lisa Case Familiar For KCPD Veteran

Six weeks after Lisa Irwin vanished from her home on Lister Avenue in Kansas City, investigators have followed thousands of leads in their search for the missing baby.

A recently retired Kansas City police officer knows what investigators are facing. As a sergeant in the department's homicide unit, Dave Bernard dealt with a major case of his own.

"I know what they're going through and believe me, I feel for them," Bernard said.

Bernard was the lead investigator in the Precious Doe murder case. The case, which began with the discovery of a headless child's body in 2001, remained unsolved for four years until the girl was identified as Erica Green and her parents were held responsible.

They don’t give up easy do they! Kudos to the KCPD!

Any mature soundly reasoning adult would have to agree the responsible party for Lisa’s disappearance is the only one to blame for Lisa to having tragically 'gone missing.''

Even I who believes Lisa's mother was negligent can't place blame on her shoulders for Lisa's disappearance - unless that is she was directly involved of course - but we don't know that.

My point? It's nothing but pure ignorance and an absolutely travesty to blame anyone else - especially the police.

The police are not mind readers, they don’t have the power of God, they can’t stop crimes BEFORE they happen - sometimes - but not always.

But. They can solve the crimes given the right amount of information, the willingness of all parties involved to do all they can - willingly - and to capitulate to the wishes of the police - and of course - time.

Given the track record of the KCPD? They don’t give up. I hope that puts the fear of God/Justice into the guilty party or parties. If you're out there - they will find you. You will pay.

Even though the Lisa Irwin case appears to have hit a wall, Bernard said that time can also be an ally.

"With time passing, relationships deteriorate and maybe people start talking and saying things, so there's always hope that the case is going to be solved," he said.

Irwin's family attorneys have said too much investigative focus has been placed on Lisa's parents, but Bernard said he's convinced the investigators are looking at everything and prioritizing leads based on the most likely scenarios.

Exactly. The ‘Brad’Wins’ have only been together for a little over two years. A lot can happen from here on out. Jeremy may loose his son. The stress over that alone is a killer. So yeah, a lot can crumble. Two years is nothing compared to a lifetime. Time is on Lisa’s side, if not to find her alive (and I pray she is found alive) then for justice to be served. We just have to be patient, let the police do what they need to do, and keep our hopes and prayers alive.

peace

I think the connection between the 2 cases may be this : whoever wanted to kill or accidentally killed baby Tyler may have thought they could provoke a 'serial baby killer' mentality ( i thought so myself) because of the baby Lisa case. They thought they were safe from suspicion because everyone would think or assume that the same person had taken and /or killed both babies.
It's so sad and guys,,,yesterday when I saw the video of the baby by himself under the sheet by the tree and the all the cops walked off and left him there, i was SO MAD. So mad that they would leave him alone.

reply to post by silo13


Agreed to let the police do what they do, provided they are diligently following all directions and not ONLY the parents are beign looked at . But I think the cracking of this case is going to come from someone opening up and telling what they know. Someone besides the abductor and/or parents KNOWS. It might be one of the 'flophouse' dwellers, might be the neighbor or the brother, etc. Someone KNOWS what happened. Once that person decides to come clean, tehy will find Lisa .

I saw on the news this morning where the parents were returning to their home for the first time since BL disappeared.

Also they stated that the parents are filing for temporary custody of their son and to have if nothing else changes to the visitation rights. If they are granted it will show that the system knows more about this case than they have let on at least as far as the connection between the parents and Little Lisa's abduction.

reply to post by silo13


I also saw this this morning, the authorities and detectives do not see a connection and have at least one suspect in custody. Weird that the Mom claims she put the baby down at midnight and then overslept! This baby was found one mile from their home by some early morning walkers.

Very very sad. It was down below freezing last night with windchill's even worse.

reply to post by silo13


OOps sorry I did not see this, but as a parent wouldn't you be afraid to return back to the home your child was abducted from? And to even consider bringing home one of the other children before the case is solved and the murder or abductor caught, I couldn't do it, no way.

This could not be good mentally for either parent and would be very detrimental to the surviving siblings. No way man.

The baby found in the woods was identified as definitely being Tyler Daniel Dasher. This morning the police have taken the mother in custody but as of yet she's not charged with any formal crime. Here's the link. I will try not to jump to conclusions but if indeed she had anything to do with this I just question why....why...there are so many resources available....she lived with her mom, she wasn't alone...she seems to have lots of friends to support her. As last resort give the baby up....I personally know so many people waiting to adopt babies RIP Tyler you were taken too early...

New details in the death of Tyler Dasher

Affton, Mo (KSDK) - A person named Shelby Dasher, which also happens to be the same name as the mother of Tyler Dasher, was booked on a 24-hour hold at 2:00 a.m. Wednesday at the county jail, according to a St. Louis County jail supervisor. Shelby Dasher has not been named a suspect in the death of Tyler and has not been charged with a crime.

Michelle

reply to post by antar

OOps sorry I did not see this, but as a parent wouldn't you be afraid to return back to the home your child was abducted from? And to even consider bringing home one of the other children before the case is solved and the murder or abductor caught, I couldn't do it, no way.

This could not be good mentally for either parent and would be very detrimental to the surviving siblings. No way man.

Hi Antar - yes, that's what I mean - they're danged either way. They don't go back and it's not good for the boys who need stability. They do go back and they're all plagued by pain and fear. It's just horrible. I'd hoped they could stay away for their won good. On the other hand. Wow, there's just too many 'other hands' in this case!
I guess all we can do is keep wishing and hoping the best for all as I'm sure you're doing Antar along with me and others.

peace