It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Obamas 3 years of Classwarfare has Paid Off

page: 5
34
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:40 PM
link   
reply to post by randomname
 


Why do you want others to support you instead of supporting yourself? Why do you want to live on government handouts instead of earning your own? You do know that most of the wealthy in this country are first generation? Why does anyone owe you anything?

If you think Obama cares, you have been tricked. While he has you running around hating people to divert your attention, he goes along his merry way feathering his own nest. He knows that many are so blinded by ideology he can get away with it, just like all the others from both parties have done.

The government spending, vote buying and special interest rewarding is out of control in both Parties. There simply is no difference. For instance Obama had complete control for two years and the Democrats could have done as they wished. What did they do? The same things that Bush did.

What you should be screaming for is opportunity and for government to get out of the way instead of wanting more government, don't you think? There is no difference between the drunk on a corner with a sign and a person who's only goal in life is to live of handouts, taken from other people by force.




posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:55 PM
link   
reply to post by Blaine91555
 





Look at this tax the rich thing. Any extra taxes are simply added to the cost of goods and services and always have been. It's all a game. Those who provide the goods and services have to make a profit to survive and they actually have no choice but to base pricing on their costs.



Yes, exactly, thank you very much. It defies understanding when ppl complain so bitterly about the corporations which produce the things we all need and use daily, and also don't realize how much the hidden taxes affect the poor when the cost is passed on to them. The devalauation of the dollar is a hidden tax that gets passed on to the poor even as they receive govt subsidies.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by Blaine91555

What you should be screaming for is opportunity and for government to get out of the way instead of wanting more government, don't you think?


But you and your political allies are screaming to let wall street and banks create the deregulatory loop holes
which lead to this situation.

So if it creates jobs fine, if it creates jobs and subsequently the means to destroy America's economy further,
hell no!

The corporation use exactly what you are advocating for as a way to screw Americans.

The blind lack of consideration you and other Plutocrats show makes me oppose you and your
thoughtless agenda.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Blaine91555
 





Look at this tax the rich thing. Any extra taxes are simply added to the cost of goods and services and always have been. It's all a game. Those who provide the goods and services have to make a profit to survive and they actually have no choice but to base pricing on their costs.



Yes, exactly, thank you very much. It defies understanding when ppl complain so bitterly about the corporations which produce the things we all need and use daily, and also don't realize how much the hidden taxes affect the poor when the cost is passed on to them. The devalauation of the dollar is a hidden tax that gets passed on to the poor even as they receive govt subsidies.


But then, I thought that the poor doesn't pay any taxes?

What gives?

Double speak?



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by Blaine91555

What you should be screaming for is opportunity and for government to get out of the way instead of wanting more government, don't you think?


But you and your political allies are screaming to let wall street and banks create the deregulatory loop holes
which lead to this situation.

So if it creates jobs fine, if it creates jobs and subsequently the means to destroy America's economy further,
hell no!

The corporation use exactly what you are advocating for as a way to screw Americans.

The blind lack of consideration you and other Plutocrats show makes me oppose you and your
thoughtless agenda.


Well, you know what? I'd love it if you would call Bill Gates up and tell him to stop sending sterilant laced vaccines to third world countries. And when you do that, please tell him you have renounced all Windows based applications and are boycotting all MS products from now till eternity.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Blaine91555
 





Look at this tax the rich thing. Any extra taxes are simply added to the cost of goods and services and always have been. It's all a game. Those who provide the goods and services have to make a profit to survive and they actually have no choice but to base pricing on their costs.



Yes, exactly, thank you very much. It defies understanding when ppl complain so bitterly about the corporations which produce the things we all need and use daily, and also don't realize how much the hidden taxes affect the poor when the cost is passed on to them. The devalauation of the dollar is a hidden tax that gets passed on to the poor even as they receive govt subsidies.


Because it's not true.
Tax incidence depends on elasticity of demand and elasticity of supply.
And thats for excise Taxes
Income taxes make this whole game impossible, because you do not know for sure how many widgets you will sell in a given year, and the tax comes after the fact.
If a company can charge a higher price without affecting demand, it is already doing it (Or has a fool for a CEO)
You could argue that demand is very inelastic for necessities, but on the other hand supply is very elastic (Not many entry barriers to baking a few loafs of bread)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by narwahl

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Blaine91555
 





Look at this tax the rich thing. Any extra taxes are simply added to the cost of goods and services and always have been. It's all a game. Those who provide the goods and services have to make a profit to survive and they actually have no choice but to base pricing on their costs.



Yes, exactly, thank you very much. It defies understanding when ppl complain so bitterly about the corporations which produce the things we all need and use daily, and also don't realize how much the hidden taxes affect the poor when the cost is passed on to them. The devalauation of the dollar is a hidden tax that gets passed on to the poor even as they receive govt subsidies.


Because it's not true.
Tax incidence depends on elasticity of demand and elasticity of supply.
And thats for excise Taxes
Income taxes make this whole game impossible, because you do not know for sure how many widgets you will sell in a given year, and the tax comes after the fact.
If a company can charge a higher price without affecting demand, it is already doing it (Or has a fool for a CEO)
You could argue that demand is very inelastic for necessities, but on the other hand supply is very elastic (Not many entry barriers to baking a few loafs of bread)


Income tax and sales tax are different things. The govt takes taxes on products at POS and also at the point of corporate gains. Both of which make the price of product go up, so what's your point with all the razzle dazzle?
You want to talk about elasticity? How about taxes at the gas pump? How elastic is oil demand? Yes people drive less when the prices are up, but does it stop people from going to work? Does it stop trucks from delivering product to stores?
Are you arguing that businesses cant know how many widgets they will need or govt cant know? If you said Govt I would definitely agree. Govt cant and doesnt know what is necessary for individual businesses to run, and that's why centralized planning in the USSR FAILED and don't try and convince me it will work better here!



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:20 PM
link   
It's good to see people starting to understand this isn't a genuine revolution. What better way to bring down "the system"(capitalism) than to use the people, make them demand it. That's why Obama is pushing so hard to get people to demand his socialist jobs bill. That's why anonymous only talks about "the bankers". That's why 'Inside Job'(which only targets the specific corporations not the people) won an Academy award. That's why Al Jazeera just released a n expensive production similar to 'Inside Job' on again, just the corporations.

Star Wars III


"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause"

And after this really ramps up and people start boycotting these banks and corporations in mass they'll collapse alright, right along with what's left our economy after they've spent quite some time making it dependant on them. And while everything's in chaos because everything's 2000% more expensive the executives and big shareholders who's corporations collapsed will still be just fine with their many houses, and cars, their trophy wife, and massive account not in Euro, USD or any other 'democratic' debt slave countries.

Useful idiots.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:25 PM
link   
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Yes:
Gas prices: Inelastic demand, inelastic supply
Taxes get passed on to a high degree.
Of course this makes substitutes more viable.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by BlackStar99
It's good to see people starting to understand this isn't a genuine revolution. What better way to bring down "the system"(capitalism) than to use the people, make them demand it. That's why Obama is pushing so hard to get people to demand his socialist jobs bill. That's why anonymous only talks about "the bankers". That's why 'Inside Job'(which only targets the specific corporations not the people) won an Academy award. That's why Al Jazeera just released a n expensive production similar to 'Inside Job' on again, just the corporations.

Star Wars III


"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause"

And after this really ramps up and people start boycotting these banks and corporations in mass they'll collapse alright, right along with what's left our economy after they've spent quite some time making it dependant on them. And while everything's in chaos because everything's 2000% more expensive the executives and big shareholders who's corporations collapsed will still be just fine with their many houses, and cars, their trophy wife, and massive account not in Euro, USD or any other 'democratic' debt slave countries.

Useful idiots.


It is neat to see that some many, who claim to be in favor of liberty are busy here defending the
very institutions that buy and subvert liberty with impunity.

Protect thine master!



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:35 PM
link   
reply to post by mastahunta
 





If any government destroys our liberty, Broden replied, "we have a right... to get rid of it by any means necessary."

From your link, the week.com.

The Tea Party manifesto is:
1. Like American forefathers, we believe we are accountable ot a sovereign God (Creator) who grants us unalienable rights to life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
2. Like America's forefathers, we believe the Constitution strictly limits the power of the federal government and uniquely recognizes and protects those unalienable individual rights.

Broden is correct.

On another note, the successful became successful because many are imaginative and focused. Even if the social ideologists get their way, the successful will default to what they do best and survive just fine.

I'm don't advocate corruption but forcing anyone to "do the right thing" doesn't work and never will.

This direct line of division (grouping) and narrow minded focus isn't the only way to deal with the problematic but when everyone is in an uproar and no one is truly listening, nothing will ever be agreed upon. Which is exactly the way those in power want it.
This class welfare is simply an excuse to be rude and to wallow in the mud with the pigs. It's all about labels/division and testing the patience of others.
This is all about flirting with a desire to riot, to embrace chaos. The masters are calling for it and it's working.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, lol, class warfare is going to solve anything.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by Blaine91555

What you should be screaming for is opportunity and for government to get out of the way instead of wanting more government, don't you think?


But you and your political allies are screaming to let wall street and banks create the deregulatory loop holes
which lead to this situation.

So if it creates jobs fine, if it creates jobs and subsequently the means to destroy America's economy further,
hell no!

The corporation use exactly what you are advocating for as a way to screw Americans.

The blind lack of consideration you and other Plutocrats show makes me oppose you and your
thoughtless agenda.


Well, you know what? I'd love it if you would call Bill Gates up and tell him to stop sending sterilant laced vaccines to third world countries. And when you do that, please tell him you have renounced all Windows based applications and are boycotting all MS products from now till eternity.


Such an absolutist...

You are just as fringe as any commie could ever hope to be.

Being for ETHICS and against corruption is not the same as opposing the existence of
corporations. Corporatists cannot make the distinction, just like communists.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by mastahunta

It is neat to see that some many, who claim to be in favor of liberty are busy here defending the
very institutions that buy and subvert liberty with impunity.

Protect thine master!


It's lame to see the same talking point over and over and over again because somehow, when someone points out the forces behind this, it automatically means we support the banks and big corps.

I thought it was common knowledge here that they have funded/organized both sides of various conflicts for a long time.
edit on 3-10-2011 by BlackStar99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by Blaine91555

What you should be screaming for is opportunity and for government to get out of the way instead of wanting more government, don't you think?


But you and your political allies are screaming to let wall street and banks create the deregulatory loop holes
which lead to this situation.

So if it creates jobs fine, if it creates jobs and subsequently the means to destroy America's economy further,
hell no!

The corporation use exactly what you are advocating for as a way to screw Americans.

The blind lack of consideration you and other Plutocrats show makes me oppose you and your
thoughtless agenda.


Expecting people to do their share and earn their own way is a thoughtless agenda, while living off handouts is a good agenda?

You misunderstand in the first place. I'm neither a Democrat or Republican and I look at the work of both Parties as equally bad. You're allowing yourself to be manipulated is what I see. Why? Surely you can see there is no difference between when a Republican is President and when a Democrat is President?

The problem is not the rich or the corporations. It's the government no matter which Party is in power. To get elected they have to buy votes, repay supporters and special interest groups and it's reached the point it is breaking our backs. I came from poverty and after decades of 60 and 80 hour weeks from both my Wife and I, what stands in my way of going further is the government. I started a small business that is still making it no thanks to them. I earn less than a Union Worker for the government. I earn less than a Postman does. I work harder, far more hours and sacrificed a lot to do what I do while they suck me dry. How is that right and why are you for it?

I say focus on where they do not want you to focus. When these political hacks divert your attention its for a reason. They have everyone arguing and hating each other over fake ideologies they put in your head and carefully nurtured to control you. Look at what they do, not what they say.

The bad guys in business are there and always will be, just like the bad guys in government are always there. The answer though is not to destroy the honest hardworking people who are just trying to build something and take their money and give to people less motivated who are takers. All they have to do is say "big business" and people instantly hate. The old Pavlovian Dog trick works and works well. We are conditioned to hate each other to keep us from uniting. Sadly too many are gullible and easily led to the slaughter as they steal the fruits of our hard work.

I watched an interview the other day where Obama supporting rich people were ranting in favor of they should pay more. When asked if they overpaid their taxes they both sidestepped the issue with some nonsense like I give to charity, or just me paying more won't help. Point is they are in on it. Take some time and research Imelt who often accompanies the Obama's. Check out all the jobs he moved overseas. He brags about 15,000 jobs he created in the US and does not mention the tens if not hundreds of thousands he has moved outside the US. He also paid zero taxes. What does Obama do, he keeps him on as a chief advisory. Like I said, its what they do, not what they say.

Ask yourself why after decades of talking about a better tax system, Congress never does anything?

Of course businesses take advantage of tax loopholes and so would their critics in the same position. Why is it that the so called Party of the People is now the richest per capita while still hating the other Party for being rich according to them. Many if not most of the richest on Earth are Democrats or Socialists. Look at the great lengths people like Soros have gone to, to keep us at each others throats. They are in fact all the same. Divide and control never fails to work.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by mastahunta
 





If any government destroys our liberty, Broden replied, "we have a right... to get rid of it by any means necessary."

From your link, the week.com.

The Tea Party manifesto is:
1. Like American forefathers, we believe we are accountable ot a sovereign God (Creator) who grants us unalienable rights to life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
2. Like America's forefathers, we believe the Constitution strictly limits the power of the federal government and uniquely recognizes and protects those unalienable individual rights.

Broden is correct.


I am sure he is correct about a lot of things, calling for violence is not correct IMO.



On another note, the successful became successful because many are imaginative and focused. Even if the social ideologists get their way, the successful will default to what they do best and survive just fine.


See, you are putting yourself between the same powers that systematically engineered theft and the destruction
of the capital driven economic system here. Can't you accept that some business practices are beyond the
Ethical standards of America?



I'm don't advocate corruption but forcing anyone to "do the right thing" doesn't work and never will.


The depression born regulation worked fine until lovers of "liberty" started systematically dismantling it from
inside the government a decade ago.



This direct line of division (grouping) and narrow minded focus isn't the only way to deal with the problematic but when everyone is in an uproar and no one is truly listening, nothing will ever be agreed upon. Which is exactly the way those in power want it.


Well calling people who have to pay for Wall Streets corruption, communists is not gonna make
communication any better is it?




This class welfare is simply an excuse to be rude and to wallow in the mud with the pigs. It's all about labels/division and testing the patience of others.
This is all about flirting with a desire to riot, to embrace chaos. The masters are calling for it and it's working.


The masters are calling for an end to the democratic process in policy making, the masters want the opportunity
to create the law which governs America. The privatization of law and the ability to have direct representation.



There is more than one way to skin a cat, lol, class warfare is going to solve anything.



Again, it's not gonna get less class warfarey if people keep calling angry tax payers communists.














posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:48 PM
link   
reply to post by BlackStar99
 


Yes, thank you. Soros has already collapsed other currencies and economies, now he is working on the US currency. But it's not just Soros, it's all the Elite, the World Bank, the IMF, and all these big players in Bilderberg, with their lil "basket of currencies".



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 04:52 PM
link   
reply to post by mastahunta
 





of the capital driven economic system here. Can't you accept that some business practices are beyond the


So, that is some kind of reason to attack all corporations and businesses as evil? This is the common attack on Capitalism typical of marxist communists. It is their MO. That is not to say that corporations which abuse power should not be held accountable. I am glad Enron was held accountable for their criminal behavior, but it's not a reason to abandon Capitalism.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 05:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by mastahunta

It is neat to see that some many, who claim to be in favor of liberty are busy here defending the
very institutions that buy and subvert liberty with impunity.

Protect thine master!


It's lame to see the same talking point over and over and over again because somehow, when someone points out the forces behind this, it automatically means we support the banks and big corps.

I thought it was common knowledge here that they have funded/organized both sides of various conflicts for a long time.
edit on 3-10-2011 by BlackStar99 because: (no reason given)


You keep hearing it from us because it is the truth.

You and your political crew here, demonize and marginalize the angry tax payers who are expressing
their natural right to express their conscience. So what you crew does is create the street level
push back and protection for the elites and their institution. You might not support the big corps,
but you sure do the good work for them, you are more valuable than any PR firm could ever be.

I know all the Tea Parties on this very thread were constantly championing the validity of their
sentiment, dispute the fact that America's largest corporatists and news network were both
funding and coordinating the efforts of the Tea Party. But now that the shoe is on the other
foot, they pickup and dust off the same argument they were fighting against.

In the end, the economic powers that fund the politicians and the framework for corruption
NEED your voices, my voice threatens their scheme, because I value ethics over business.
If a business defies concept of ethics and if it's practices defy the spirit of
law, I don't care how big and elite the operation is. Again, this crew doesn't even care to examine,
the only goal is to obstruct and leave the power structure and corruption in place.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 05:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by BlackStar99
 


Yes, thank you. Soros has already collapsed other currencies and economies, now he is working on the US currency. But it's not just Soros, it's all the Elite, the World Bank, the IMF, and all these big players in Bilderberg, with their lil "basket of currencies".


See man, this is where you sound stupid (sorry to say)

You are saying that the banks are intentionally undermining their largest finical vehicle (the banks)
so that they destroy the biggest and best money making system in history??? You are protecting
the banks, so that the elites who own the banks and us banks to crash economies, are thwarted
by ensuring that their practices are left in place...???

I mean that is so anti logical, stupid is the only word that comes to mind-

You are taking the position of protecting them overtly,

YOU:

"Don't attack the BANKS COMMIE!"

YOU:

"THE banks are controlled by an evil cabal!"

YOU:

"Save the banks from the commies, the commies who also own the banks...!!!"

I mean it is so tortured and asinine, it is sub intelligent



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 05:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by BlackStar99

Originally posted by mastahunta

It is neat to see that some many, who claim to be in favor of liberty are busy here defending the
very institutions that buy and subvert liberty with impunity.

Protect thine master!


It's lame to see the same talking point over and over and over again because somehow, when someone points out the forces behind this, it automatically means we support the banks and big corps.

I thought it was common knowledge here that they have funded/organized both sides of various conflicts for a long time.
edit on 3-10-2011 by BlackStar99 because: (no reason given)


You keep hearing it from us because it is the truth.

You and your political crew here, demonize and marginalize the angry tax payers who are expressing
their natural right to express their conscience. So what you crew does is create the street level
push back and protection for the elites and their institution. You might not support the big corps,
but you sure do the good work for them, you are more valuable than any PR firm could ever be.

I know all the Tea Parties on this very thread were constantly championing the validity of their
sentiment, dispute the fact that America's largest corporatists and news network were both
funding and coordinating the efforts of the Tea Party. But now that the shoe is on the other
foot, they pickup and dust off the same argument they were fighting against.

In the end, the economic powers that fund the politicians and the framework for corruption
NEED your voices, my voice threatens their scheme, because I value ethics over business.
If a business defies concept of ethics and if it's practices defy the spirit of
law, I don't care how big and elite the operation is. Again, this crew doesn't even care to examine,
the only goal is to obstruct and leave the power structure and corruption in place.


The difference here is, the Tea Partiers are genuinely interested in smaller govt, less spending, less taxes, and basically getting govt out of our faces, in reclaiming our liberties, while the protesters at Wall Street seem entirely focused on finance and corporations(read Capitalism) and so many have expressed collectivist views, here and on the street, and parrot the demands of the Democrat Party. There is a difference.



new topics

top topics



 
34
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join