What is truth? Searching for reason and logic in a world dominated by faith

Greetings my fallow users. Last night I asked a few users how their faith is true and correct. I did not get the answer I wanted. What I would like to know how is your faith and/or religion true? How many people have been given tracts, asked by people of different faiths (Christian, JW's, Mormons, Muslims) about what they believe in and how they consider a different alternative in life, and so on. To me no religion is correct over the other religions. It's just a matter of faith. But what I'm looking for is evidence to support your views. Say you're a Jew, Christian or even a Muslim. We get a discussion about Moses. How can you prove to me Moses is a historic figure and evidence to support the life of Moses. Another example would be Jesus. A testimony doesn't offer me proof or cheery picking a verse from a holy book will not convince me that this figure was prophesied. That's not proof of evidence. Again I ask for evidence for proof of your beliefs.

Why do you care?

reply to post by graphuto


Why don't you care? There are many people who ask many questions of life's greatest mysteries. Why are we here, what is the origin of mankind and the universe, and so on. To me religion is outdated when it comes to the modern world. Ideas about evolution, reason, and logic need to be promoted while fables, tales of hell, and ridiculousness from various religions needs to be shunned.

My faith is in the Sun: I am Native american/white.
We believe in that which we can see.
The sun warms our home, provides the means to produce food, gives us light. our ansestors believed in sun gods and somehow we when from sun worshipper to some dude. the egyptians worshiped the sun, hopis these people are often looked over but the hold the best stories past down the generations unfortunately most of these people had another religion forced upon them. its extremely sad. I personally believe that if they want to believe in something else more power to them we were graced with will. religion i believe is just to control ones will.

reply to post by MissCoyote


I see! I have been studying astrology and how various religions and cultures used astrology and elements to describe origins of the world and how everything works.

reply to post by WhatsHappenin666


Well to me it sounds like you're looking for solid physical proof that so and so exists. With religion you will not find that as it's based on a belief system.

Today we see science stating that the mayans were highly advanced but we look at todays people and omg for some reason we have been dumbed down. Why? can't we have elioquint minds to.....working together to explore the unknown to advance our species. like in another thread human4life states that the bible is just a history book lets keep it that way. so its a history with some fantasy tales' maybe. I just don't understand our ansestors watched "watchers" the stars for years calculating the best seasons for growing certain foods we have been looking up since the beginning of time (which is different then time back then). so maybe our answer to religion is up.

Religion is guidance towards truth. Truth here being defined as a unity or wholeness of all things; everything "clicking" together and making sense; reality.

Faith is a necessary part of religion because, just as with having a goal, it is very helpful to believe that you can achieve that goal, or in this case, that closeness or oneness with the All Supreme Deity...whether that be God, Allah, Enlightenment, whatever path you choose.

You don't accept faith as an end all. You don't just say, "I have faith and this is truth". You have faith that the truth exists and that you can find it.

reply to post by MissCoyote

human4life states that the bible is just a history book lets keep it that way. so its a history with some fantasy tales' maybe.

Where's the proof? Where is the proof for Noah's ark and the flood? Where is the proof for Abraham to Moses; the exodus of the Israelis from Egypt, where is the proof for Jesus and his life as stated in the Christian bible or the Qur'an? How can it be a history book if there is no evidence supporting the bible or the quran?

Enough evidence exist about the proof of Jesus and Moses actual existence as historical figures, enough that would be held up in a court of law (several eye wittiness accounts to their existence) there are also facts in the bible that until recently had been thought to be false but proven to be true (names of rulers and places)

The bible as a historic account (throw out all the spiritual side) has been used to verify locations and events in Jewish history, Jewish historaians outside of the bible have also recounted people and events, one that mentions Jesus is Josephus.

So as actual people there is proof they existed, the question is if what is written about them 100 percent accurate or not.

Yet you ask for reason and logic, which implies you think that faith in religion is not inline with that? You are not aware of your own presuppositional biases and “myside blindness.” There is no such thing as a bias-free position. It is irrational to think that the evolutionary materialist view (which I am assuming you hold) is the only valid one when it starts with the fundamental assumption that there can be allowed no non-material explanation for the Universe.

Science simply knows to little to rule out the fudamental formations of our reallity to support a wholly a material only view of the start of the universe, one day we might be able to, or we might be surprised by a non-material begining.

reply to post by benrl


There share all the evidence with me and other users. This what I'm asking for in this thread.

The bible as a historic account (throw out all the spiritual side) has been used to verify locations and events in Jewish history, Jewish historaians outside of the bible have also recounted people and events, one that mentions Jesus is Josephus.

I have found this to refute your comment. Do you agree with my source? Can you counter?

Josephus Flavius, the Jewish historian, lived as the earliest non-Christian who mentions a Jesus. Although many scholars think that Josephus' short accounts of Jesus (in Antiquities) came from interpolations perpetrated by a later Church father (most likely, Eusebius), Josephus' birth in 37 C.E. (well after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus), puts him out of range of an eyewitness account. Moreover, he wrote Antiquities in 93 C.E., after the first gospels got written! Therefore, even if his accounts about Jesus came from his hand, his information could only serve as hearsay.

Source

reply to post by WhatsHappenin666


The Smithsonian Department of Anthropology

(referring to history not spiritual teachings.) “Much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories. These Biblical records can be and are used as are other ancient documents in archeological work. For the most part, historical events described took place and the peoples cited really existed. This is not to say that names of all peoples and places mentioned can be identified today, or that every event as reported in the historical books happened exactly as stated.”

This is just my opinion, and nothing but my own opinion. Everyone has a right to believe in what they choose. The Bible, if taken for historical fact has some merit, but people need to keep in mind it was written by man.

There are great points to every religion, so no ONE religion is one I can follow. What I know for me is that God/higher power/Nature, whatever you want to call him is inside of me and I can feel that- I really don't need people knocking on my door and telling me I am going to hell because I believe that Jesus was just a man, just as the Mormons have their own at a much later date.

History is history. I choose to learn from it, lead my life the best I can with the people that I care about in my world, help those I can.

Live, Laugh, Love.

reply to post by benrl


That doesn't help me believe the bible is a historical document. Anyone can make a statement but they need to back it up with evidence and sources. Not saying these people existed. I would like to experience something that will allow me to see that what they say is true.

reply to post by WhatsHappenin666


there is controversy around the account that is true, but you asked for reference outside the holy books which in it self is not a logical exclusion as they have been verified by multiple sources more so than other books in antiquity by the sheer number of matching versions found.

So you start your search for logic and reason by dumping examples from a book even archaeological digs have used to help find ancient locations...

we don't know okay. theres too much controversy behind the bible but to RESPECT the beliefs of some people.....whom DO believe in the edited RUBBISH in the bible I stated it as a historical document. its older than dirt okay it has history. my grandmothers birth certificate is a historical doc. she's dead okay she was a part of history.

I don't think anyone is going to be able to give you the answer you're asking for. I don't know of any proof to back up anyone's spiritual journey or anyone's spirit itself for that matter. People can offer their experiences and possibly even some evidence to support why they believe a specific way but noone can give proof in any scientific sense.

reply to post by kite74


I agree with you. But it's time to either put up or shut up and stop following myths that are not true. If there is no evidence for any forum of Jesus life then to me Jesus is a myth.

we have no reason to believe he is real where are his remains? we have remains of king tut but no remains of jesus like i said i don't believe in that type of religion I believe what I see. I can look at the sun and see that it shines I can look at ron paul and see that he's an intelligent little old man.

I Live.

That is the truth.

With Love,

Your Brother