Kerry is Calling for Rumsfeld to Resign

Originally posted by EastCoastKidIn a time of war, you go AWOL for over thirty days, you are declared a deserter. Bush went missing from his Alabama National Guard unit from 1972-1973. What is not clear about that?

Bush was never declared UA, much less declared a deserter. If these allegations were true, then someone would have filed charges and he would have had to answer to those charges. That's the kicker. Under no circumstances did Bush disappear with no intention of returning. Even if he had been declared a deserter, the charges would have never stuck.

The records needed to prove where he was have been lost. That's not so unusual. Nearly my entire medical record from my wounds in Vietnam were lost, except for enough to verify the hospitalization. This stuff happens.

And another thing is that this story has completely disappeared everywhere except here. I served during Vietnam. I saw a lot of Marines go over the hill for a lot of reasons. If anyone goes AWOL for over 30 days, they are declared a deserter and the FBI starts looking for them. It is a serious charge. No one skates.

Now, upon return, the burden of proof for desertion is so high that even leaving a pair of shoes in your wall locker is enough to prove an intent to return.

So, the Deserter charge is just reckless. Every other lesser charge might hold water, but there is no record of there having been charges filed. Even in the absence of everything else, there would have been a legal paper trail.

This story is idiotic to say the least. Give it up.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by wraith30Correct me if I am wrong but is not desertion defined as AWOL more than 30 days with intention of not returning?

That's pretty close. And that's the reason the allegation of Desertion is so inaccurate. It may be that Bush missed a drill, but it is also clear he filed the appropriate paperwork for his transfer to Alabama and that he met his obligation for his duty, regardless of any other shortcomings.

Frankly, I'd believe that Bush was a gold-brick. But, by no definition, is he a deserter.

sorry for my lack of military lingo.... "gold Brick' ???

Wraith

Originally posted by American Mad Man
it's clear to me that Bush, despite his flaws, will do what is best for the USA.

Best for the USA or best for himself? I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be rude it's just that I believe both Bush and Kerry are in this for the power more than what best for America. I know Bush is an oil man because of his connections to Halliburton. He's going after the middle east because of the oil.

Now leaders like Hitler have shown us that when you have the power you can decieve the people in making them follow you. I believe both Bush and Kerry are doing the same. It's easy to be decieved. That's why hitler is a perfect example.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Can you say naive? You obviously don't much about the ways of cronyism.

It has nothing to do with naivet�, it has to do with you not knowing what you are talking about, and spreading every anti-Bush snippet you come across on every crack-pot web site as being the absolute truth. As such, you have zero credibility. Everything is a conspiracy to you, and if you can�t find something to crow about on one of your bogus web sites, you just make something up�


Sorry, just the way it is�live with it.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
Those of you who claim to know the UCMJ should do some research before you make such preposterous claims, especially when they have been debunked as so much trash so many times.


You stand corrected.

Dude, cut back on the coffee. I simply asked becasue I was unsure of what defined somone as a deserter.

sheesh, Bite my head off why don't-ya

people need to learn to relax.

Wraith

Affirmative Reaction,

It seems that you are getting as addicted to political forum as everybody else around here.

By the way this is a conspiracy forum so what is wrong with that.

Originally posted by wraith30
[sorry for my lack of military lingo.... "gold Brick' ???

I had to go back to WWII to get this term. There are more recent and more profane terms, but I think "goof-off" will suffice here.

But, let us bear in mind that Bush was an active duty fighter pilot for two years. It is is assertion that his climbing the list for the NG was because a lot of individuals declined the service because of this requirement.

While waiting lists were long, during the wait, some were drafted, some chose to enlist in other branches of the service and what have you. Simply because of the stringent requirements for fighter pilot duty, anyone who volunteered for such duty would have gone above those who could be eliminated from that duty.

This whole thing is just hogwash.

Scream it all day long, from the rooftops if you like. It won't change the fact that Bush DESERTED. He got away with it because of who his father is. You folks are in such denial, its almost funny.

Originally posted by wraith30

Dude, cut back on the coffee. I simply asked becasue I was unsure of what defined somone as a deserter.

sheesh, Bite my head off why don't-ya

people need to learn to relax.

Wraith

You simply got in the way of others such as ECK who claim to know what they are talking about, post trash, and expect everyone to believe it just because they say it is so....that does not sit well with me. No offense was intended to you personally.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
OOOOOOO, BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!

As long as we are talking about the lesser of 2 evils, it's clear to me that Bush, despite his flaws, will do what is best for the USA. Kerry will do what is best for his next election - as his many flip flop statements clearly show - and that my friends, is NOT who should be leading the most powerfull entity the world has ever known.

ok.. you too.. try decaf....

If you want to talk about flip floping Bush is not exactly the go to guy for staying on solid desicions. And those policies he does stay on are not exaclty the wisest.

What is worse.. somone who changes his mind in light of new information or somone who stands his ground despite new information?

wraith

I don't know where you're getting your info from, but it's very inaccurate. Please, source it. I'd love to know whose filling your head with this BS.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Scream it all day long, from the rooftops if you like. It won't change the fact that Bush DESERTED. He got away with it because of who his father is. You folks are in such denial, its almost funny.

You can scream the lie from the rooftops if you like. This charge does not hold water.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Scream it all day long, from the rooftops if you like. It won't change the fact that Bush DESERTED. He got away with it because of who his father is. You folks are in such denial, its almost funny.

Hey, take your own advice. Problem for you is, it's already been debunked, which makes you continue to look foolish every time you say it.

Remember what it says on the home page?

DENY IGNORANCE!

Continuing to post things that are proven to be untrue is truly ignorance.

Let's get back to the subject of this thread. Enough distraction.

Rumsfeld should've resigned a LONG time ago. Who remembers the Somalia debacle back in '93? After those soldiers died (a handful by comparison to what's going on now), the Republicans (me included) wanted then Sec. Defense Les Aspin's head on a platter for f**king up so bad. Clinton responded swiftly and fired Aspin. That's accountability. Something the Bush administration knows nothing about.

Originally posted by marg6043
Affirmative Reaction,

It seems that you are getting as addicted to political forum as everybody else around here.

By the way this is a conspiracy forum so what is wrong with that.

No addiction, I just like to laugh at all the trash that some people actually post and believe some times.

When obvious and proven lies are posted as truth, that's when conspiracy meets idiocy...

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction


You simply got in the way of others such as ECK who claim to know what they are talking about, post trash, and expect everyone to believe it just because they say it is so....that does not sit well with me. No offense was intended to you personally.

Thats fine, just consider what you say when you are quoting somone. When you use the Quote function then it is assumed that anything said in your post is directed to them. Unless you make a direct referance to somone else like this.

Grady, thanks for the explination of Gold Brick.

Don't want to get into post ediquet but that is simply how it is.

All, the thing is, theroys will abount untill Bush is willing to release his full military records. Why are they simply not released?

Wraith

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I don't know where you're getting your info from, but it's very inaccurate. Please, source it. I'd love to know whose filling your head with this BS.

I would love to see the source on Bush being a deserter as you claim.
You been spouting that for two pages and have zero proof.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Rumsfeld should've resigned a LONG time ago. Who remembers the Somalia debacle back in '93? After those soldiers died (a handful by comparison to what's going on now), the Republicans (me included) wanted then Sec. Defense Les Aspin's head on a platter for f**king up so bad.

You keep that up and nobody would ever want to do the job. Let's face it. As much as we all like to be perfect...we have all learned from our mistakes, correct?

Not every decision goes perfectly, despite what Kerry "arm-chair quarterback" wants to brainwash into thinking.

Here is a way to solve the issue for once and all.

Just get us a copy of Bush's other than honorable or bad conduct discharge. Surely someone who actually deserted would not have been able to get the honorabel discharge that Bush got.

Short or that, all we are left with is misguided Dems whining, and I am getting sick of hearing them.

Message from Affermative

I'll send this to you here, as I don't air my dirty laundry in public, but do NOT presume to lecture me on posting etiquette. Your question, after several other posts you made, could EASILY be construed as fishing. You need to get a thicker skin....

You should have posted this here. I correct your posting etiquette becasue you seem to lack it.

If you actulay do read my prior quotes you will find that I either make a specific point, make a smart455 comment, offer an parable or example situation trying to show a point, or and for some reason it is usualy Grady I do this to.. but to ask questions involving military proceedure and or rules.I know there are likly a number of people that could answer the same questions such as ECK but Grady posted somethign a while back where he listed off a mass of military code which, in my eyes, marked him as somone who remembers all the minor ins and outs of how things are run.

You also should not flatter yourself that you can get under my skin. In order for you to do that I would have to care about you. And to be compleatly honest I could read about your painfull horrific death in the papper and think nothing more on it than .. "Wow.. sucks to be him." as I proceed to realy enjoy my morning coffee.

Sorry if that seems harsh but often the truth is.

Wraith