Need ATS help...simple question: Where did the BIG BANG happen???

reply to post by rhinoceros


Cool video. I stumbled upon another very interesting video called "what is the Universe expanding into". It seems to be made by the same guy, it covers topics very relevant to this discussion. This has proven to be a very enlightening discussion.

reply to post by shaneR


Well, I don't know but over the years I have come to understand that before the big bang, everything you see now, was so condensed that it was all just one single point. Something happened that apparently caused a big bang and the universe started expanding.

I believe it is the theory of relativity that says it can only expand so much... That eventually it will stop expanding and shrink back down to that single point which to me suggests the possibility that the universe " happens" over and over for ever...

What causes the big bang or what is outside of the universe.... Is just beyond me.

Of course, please do not take my word for 100% truth. I am very tired and am just trying to remember stuff that I have heard long ago.

So please do your own research as well.

Originally posted by The Baby Seal Club

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by shaneR

 

If each atom is mostly space, and everything is made of atoms, why can't I walk through walls?

It's quite simple really. Each atom may be mostly empty space but the particles which make it up move around so fast the atom appears to be a much more compact/dense unit than it actually is. Now bunch trillions of atoms together into a piece of sizable matter and it's virtually impossible to tell it's made up from little atoms which are mostly empty space.

edit on 14-9-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

Ummm...no. You can't walk through walls because of the electro-magnetic force. The polarity of your hands and the walls are like two magnets that repel each other. If you could literally reverse the polarity of the atoms in your body then you would be able to walk through walls (of course you will have sunk through the floor first).

Certain forces probably do play a role in the "solidity" of an object, but what I said is true. Think about if you had a box full of ping-pong balls all sorted in such a way that they had very little room to move around. The box is mostly empty space but passing a solid object through the box wont be extremely easy. I guess gluing the ping-pong balls together would work even better (it's also a lot like electro-magnetic forces in this experiment). It works even better when the ping-pong balls are replaced with extremely tiny atoms that have electrons whizzing around them at unfathomable speeds.

reply to post by shaneR


shaneR,
In classical big bang theory there is no spot where it happened. A spot refers to a place, and a place must have dimension (x,y). The big bang theory says there was nothing in the beginning just a singularity. That means no space, no dimension, no time, etc.; absolute nothing.

The human mind cannot comprehend absolute nothing. For example, close your eyes and picture absolutely nothing. What you probably did is picture absolute blackness in a 2 dimensional frame. But in absolute nothing even black does not exist or the 2 dimensions. That is why the big bang occurred nowhere and everywhere as someone earlier in the thread suggested.

reply to post by The Baby Seal Club


hi TBSC, and thanks for your input on this...

just a question...

U said:

The big bang theory says there was nothing in the beginning just a singularity.

nothing = NOTHING... a singularity is SOMETHING, no matter how small...

help !

and it was SOMEWHERE........????????

reply to post by The Baby Seal Club

shaneR,
In classical big bang theory there is no spot where it happened. A spot refers to a place, and a place must have dimension (x,y). The big bang theory says there was nothing in the beginning just a singularity. That means no space, no dimension, no time, etc.; absolute nothing.

Yeah, that is exactly correctly. We cannot see outside of our Universe. In fact, from what I have learnt so far from Wikipedia and these videos, it seems like we can't even see the edge of the Universe, and because of the rapid expansion we will probably never be able to see the edge. I think they call it "infinitely flat" essentially for this reason. The flat part is what confuses me. I don't think they mean "flat", as in 2D flat, but more like a squashed sphere I guess. That post on the last page about the universe being wedged between two "extra-dimensional membranes" could be a viable explanation.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Chaoticorder, please check out the video with Richard Feynman on the elcetro-magnetic force. He explains that it is the the magnetic force that doesn't allow us to go through objects.

www.youtube.com...

Go to about the 4:15 mark to hear the actual comment.

reply to post by shaneR


[Quote] but i am having issues with INFINITY...( no beginning or end = infinity, right?)

and i obviously find it hard to comprehend the possibility of "infinity"...

What I find difficult to understand is how can a believer of an eternal deity be unable to comprehend the infinite. How is it justifiable in your head that an infinite always existing deity is perfectly viable without question or evidence for such and yet an infinite existence without a beginning is hard to understand when you know existence does indeed exist for a fact?

[Quote] and, if the universe was infinite, wouldnt it be static? eg: can an infinite universe actually "grow"...

We know existence exists, we also know things change within existence. There are different phases of matter, different combinations of fundamental bits of matter that comprise other forms of matter that interact with existence in different ways. There is no evidence of existence growing, but plenty of evidence that it changes.

[Quote] also ...how can anything exist, that isnt first created ?

Yet you are comfortable with the blind belief answer of a deity concieved of a mere 2000 years ago by an offshoot religious sect that is known to have incorporated various stories from surrounding religions and violent conquest to become todays most popular belief. As I posed the question before, I will again. Can God exist if the existence he existed within had never existed? If heaven existed eternally, then how can it be hard to accept that our existence has existed eternally? If things require a beginning or a force of creation, then how does god exist at all? If god could have always existed, then why can not existence when you know for a fact that existence exists?

[Quote] but of course there is the issue of : nothing can be created or destroyed, only transformed...

Exactly. Knowing this to be true, why do you believe existence had a beginning?

[Quote] i am very interested in this topic, not trying to bring in GOD, ( i have already said i believe), and i know U just end up at the same place...( where did GOD come from)...

but i am happier there, than with " we came from a big bang, and then MUD that came to life..."

I only bring god into my posts out of necessity in an attempt to prove a point to you, seeing as you believe in something to exist without evidence and have disbelief in existence having always existed when the evidence for existence is your gery existence and tht existence even exists at all nor could not exist if it had not existed at any point.

Another member raised another valid point as well. Time does not exist.

So again:

Existence exists and things change within existence. We can only observe our local bubble of existence and how things behave within that bubble. We can't deny the evidence for this. So how can you disblieve it has always been here and yet blindly believe in a man made religious doctrine without evidence that it's "truths" are even true at all?

reply to post by shaneR

No shaneR, because you're thinking of a singularity as a physical object like a speck of dust. That's not what a singularity is but happens to be the best way to describe it for the human mind to comprehend. A singularity is not governed by the known laws of physics for example.

I don't know how much you know about physics but you might want to go look up gravitational singularity - here is the wiki page:en.wikipedia.org...
It does a decent job of giving a basic understanding of singularities while also showing the difficulty in conforming quantum mechanics with relativity with the big bang.

reply to post by shaneR


No problemo

Yep the constant temperature is quite logical if you think about it....imagine an balloon...and now inflate it...still the same balloon and properties except it's inflated Same thing applies to our universe and can be used in relation to what the B.B did.

reply to post by Astyanax


I should hope not.....

reply to post by Astyanax

reply to post by sirnex

What I find difficult to understand is how can a believer of an eternal deity be unable to comprehend the infinite. How is it justifiable in your head that an infinite always existing deity is perfectly viable without question or evidence for such and yet an infinite existence without a beginning is hard to understand when you know existence does indeed exist for a fact?

who are U quoting????

did i say any of that...???????????????????????

reply to post by shaneR


You said you believe in god. I am assuming this is the eternally existing judeic-christian god. Or do you believe i a god that has had a beginning/creation of itself?

There is a point to this, I'm just left wondering if you can grasp it yet.

reply to post by shaneR


You said you believe in god. I am assuming this is the eternally existing judeic-christian god. Or do you believe i a god that has had a beginning/creation of itself?

There is a point to this, I'm just left wondering if you can grasp it yet.

visualize yourself blowing up a balloon underwater. the air within the expanding balloon is our universe and the water around the balloon is the other dimension that our universe is expanding into and this other dimension is pressing and compressing our universe into a flat disc,as it expands outward in all directions...i thought of that analogy when i was like 15yrs old and many years later i still think that this is the answer,expressed in the easiest way that i can explain,the easiest way to visualize and understand what i mean...

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by The Baby Seal Club

 

shaneR,
In classical big bang theory there is no spot where it happened. A spot refers to a place, and a place must have dimension (x,y). The big bang theory says there was nothing in the beginning just a singularity. That means no space, no dimension, no time, etc.; absolute nothing.

Yeah, that is exactly correctly. We cannot see outside of our Universe. In fact, from what I have learnt so far from Wikipedia and these videos, it seems like we can't even see the edge of the Universe, and because of the rapid expansion we will probably never be able to see the edge. I think they call it "infinitely flat" essentially for this reason. The flat part is what confuses me. I don't think they mean "flat", as in 2D flat, but more like a squashed sphere I guess. That post on the last page about the universe being wedged between two "extra-dimensional membranes" could be a viable explanation.

The reason they call the universe flat, is because the curvature of the measured sphere is hardly measurable.
When you zoom in close on the measured sphere "Wmap" for instance, the wall of the sphere will look almost flat.

we don't even know what the universe really is. our limited senses do not allow us to see its true reality and thinking about it with our limited comprehension, we will never fully understand its actual nature...

reply to post by sirnex


u said this...

What I find difficult to understand is how can a believer of an eternal deity be unable to comprehend the infinite.

so, how many "non-believers" do u know that TRULY understand INFINITY?????
your point is moot...

u said:

you are comfortable with the blind belief answer of a deity concieved of a mere 2000 years ago by an offshoot religious sect that is known to have incorporated various stories from surrounding religions and violent conquest to become todays most popular belief.

how do know know what i think / believe... ?
i wasnt the one who first mentioned GOD,,,