Need ATS help...simple question: Where did the BIG BANG happen???

reply to post by spacevisitor


hi visitor,
thanks for your input,
and i agree...

if the universe is as big as i think it is,
there is plenty of room for more discoveries,
which do not make sense under our traditional thinking...

so theories get revised...

i am just a bit frustrated with the "map" of the universe,
and the inability to be able to just put a finger on it, and say, here it was...

not to mention the "standard model" of the universe,
and the requirements of so many "added variables..." that are needed too hold it together...

eg: cosmological constant, dark matter, dark energy, and some new dark stuff i heard about the other day...

thats all...

and my query, i fell, is still yet to be answered, satisfactorily...

where did the big bang happen...?

- in this universe OR outside of it...???

+ i know people have said it was "everywhere",
+that "everywhere" was just a tiny spot ( singularity)...

but that singularity was still EITHER in this universe ( if it existed before the singularity),
OR: the big bang ( singularity) happened "somewhere else",
and as a RESULT created the universe as we now know it...

IMHO

thanks again...

reply to post by akushla99


it now appears BLACK HOLEs are common...

small ones all over the place,

larger ones here and there...

and probably a " super" BLACK-HOLE ( or multiple ones) at the centre of MOST galaxies...

including our own MILKY WAY...

can U see it... NO...

but U can see evidence of it...

seeya...

reply to post by sirnex


hi Simex, and appreciate your reply...

and generally agree with your interesting theory...

but i am having issues with INFINITY...( no beginning or end = infinity, right?)

and i obviously find it hard to comprehend the possibility of "infinity"...

and, if the universe was infinite, wouldnt it be static?
eg: can an infinite universe actually "grow"...


also ...how can anything exist, that isnt first created ?

but of course there is the issue of :
nothing can be created or destroyed, only transformed...

sorry, just thinking aloud....

i am very interested in this topic, not trying to bring in GOD, ( i have already said i believe),
and i know U just end up at the same place...( where did GOD come from)...

but i am happier there, than with " we came from a big bang, and then MUD that came to life..."

seeya...

reply to post by Springheel Jack


hi Jack,

agree again,

and thinking of the same theory of "reverse plotting" to go back in time,,,

but even if the BIG BANG happened at a particular "point",
and blew outwards ( like a traditional explosion),

after 15 billion years, there have been many collisions,
including BIG ones early on,

+ that could have changed the trajectory of some matter
to possibly a complete reverse of the direction it was originally travelling...

IMHO...

seeya

reply to post by getreadyalready


thanks again Ready,
excellent post...

and agree entirely...

we over-rate our intelligence constantly,
and there is so much more out there...

right on, too, about the EXTRA dimensions... weird eh...totally WEIRD...IMHO....

and maybe "multiverses" as well????

just about anything is possible, technically....

also just gotta agree about time... very relative...but U can predict the future,
if U have enough information...

seeya

Originally posted by blocula
our universe exploded from out of another dimension.our reality was born from out of a white hole,which was connected on the other end to a black hole within another reality...

hmmmm...just as i was saying ^^^ >>> www.space.com...

Hallo A question that people ask...and scientifically speaking, the B.B occured anywhere and everywhere. It was a singularity and then expanded...so our big universe is that singularity therefore it occured everywhere.

What triggered off inflation/B.B? Well negative pressure I believe...

I made a thread on this: www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by shaneR


That is actually a very good question. Scientists can probably tell you where the Universe originated in relation to the known Universe, but not from a reference point outside of this Universe. It's a very complex thought to ponder, my mind doesn't do well when comprehending infinity.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Chicken and Egg.

It can be explained within the framework of evolution. It's more complicated than the simple "chicken or egg" puzzle.

Who made God?

Good question. It's another good paradox, but most people will simply refute this logic by claiming God has always existed; maybe time doesn't even exist in Gods realm.

What's half of zero, or half of infinity?

Why should it be possible to divide an abstract value made to describe the state of infinity?

If each atom is mostly space, and everything is made of atoms, why can't I walk through walls?

It's quite simple really. Each atom may be mostly empty space but the particles which make it up move around so fast the atom appears to be a much more compact/dense unit than it actually is. Now bunch trillions of atoms together into a piece of sizable matter and it's virtually impossible to tell it's made up from little atoms which are mostly empty space.

reply to post by shaneR

and my query, i fell, is still yet to be answered, satisfactorily...

where did the big bang happen...?

- in this universe OR outside of it...???

Well they say the Universe is expanding, so the simple answer to your question is: the original starting point is basically in the center of the Universe. I can't even comprehend how the start of the Universe could begin outside of the Universe?

Your questions are very hard to answer because they are really edging on the limit of scientific understanding. They say there could even be other universes out there, a multiverse if you will; like bubbles expanding in the sea of void. What lies between these Universes one may ask?

Does "space" only exist within the confines of a Universe...what unfathomable paradox awaits us at the edge of the known Universe? Is it even possible to reach something that's continuously accelerating at break neck speeds? Lastly, what would happen if the Universe collapsed in on it's self?

the chicken evolved from another animal...
humanity created god to explain the unexplainable and to justify our own barbarism...
a black hole can only contain so much matter,then it bursts forth its contents in the form of an exit point,a white hole and creates another universe...
they say there are millions, perhaps billions of black holes,so there are millions,perhaps billions of universes...

reply to post by shaneR

You obviously have no understanding of the big bang theory. I will give you a very simple breakdown of it:

All of the energy and matter that currently make up our universe used to be condensed into one small point of energy. This small point of energy expanded, and then some of the energy became matter, and thus you have the universe as we are currently seeing it.

The big bang was a massive expansion, not an explosion, that means that the point of the big bang would be everywhere that space is.

a "big bang" is the wrong term,its misleading,it should be called the "big expansion"...

reply to post by mamaloney

The big bang was a massive expansion, not an explosion, that means that the point of the big bang would be everywhere that space is.

Big Bang theory claims everything started as a singularity, a single point where everything in the Universe started expanding, so it was indeed very much like an explosion at the initial moments of the Big Bang. The place where everything begun expanding most definitely can be traced to a single point. As I said, that point is probably some where around the center of the Universe, since the Universe is a big expanding sphere.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

I meant to say that it was not an expansion from an external source, (as in no universe > universe) but an expansion of the universe. (Universe > Bigger universe)

reply to post by blocula

a black hole can only contain so much matter,then it bursts forth its contents in the form of an exit point,a white hole and creates another universe...

now where the heck did you hear that? Yes, a loose theory is that a blackhole could actually lead to another universe in the multiverse, but the rest of it is quite flawed.

A black hole doesn't destroy matter, you are correct there, energy can't be destroyed in physics, merely converted. Most people, wrongly, assume anything that goes into a black hole is lost forever, squished and pulled down to it's basic particles never to escape.

This is wrong, and I believe Hawking is the one who corrected that. A blackhole shoots massive jets of radiation outwards. The energy it "consumes" doesn't stay there forever, it's blasted back out into the universe.

We can't "see" a blackhole, because it's so dense and the gravity is so great, not even light can escape it (with the exception of the jets of radiation produced) BUT we can see it's affects on other objects. The first way we found them was watching the motions of starts and plotting their orbit. From this we could anticipate the amount of matter required to cause this orbit, and in some cases stars appeared to be orbiting nothing, but going at tremendous speed, because they are hurling around a black hole.

Another, more advanced method, is the fact that as gas gets closer to the event horizon of a black hole, it heats up because of the friction (particles being squished together as they rotate) and begins to glow intently bright. we can't ever hope to actually SEE the black hole itself, but we can see the brilliant light show provided by the gases, and the orbits of objects around it, to verify it is indeed there.

its what i have theorized for a long time and heres one of many links that back it up > www.space.com...

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by mamaloney

 

The big bang was a massive expansion, not an explosion, that means that the point of the big bang would be everywhere that space is.

Big Bang theory claims everything started as a singularity, a single point where everything in the Universe started expanding, so it was indeed very much like an explosion at the initial moments of the Big Bang. The place where everything begun expanding most definitely can be traced to a single point. As I said, that point is probably some where around the center of the Universe, since the Universe is a big expanding sphere.

Ok, so back to the original OP question. "Where" did that singularity exist?

And

Well they say the Universe is expanding, so the simple answer to your question is: the original starting point is basically in the center of the Universe. I can't even comprehend how the start of the Universe could begin outside of the Universe?

Many modern observations have tracked things moving towards one another, and things decelerating, so the theory of a massive "expansion" or "explosion" from a singular point is now called into question. There does not appear to be a central point, and if we assume the theory is correct, then it means there is also an outer limit to the expansion, so hypothetically, if we travelled faster than the explosion, what would we encounter at the edge?

Originally posted by mamaloney
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

An explosion requires a release of gases. Gases did not exist during the big bang.

edit on 14-9-2011 by mamaloney because: .

edit on 14-9-2011 by mamaloney because: .

I'm pretty sure a nuclear explosion doesn't need gases. They fire em off in space.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Ok, so back to the original OP question. "Where" did that singularity exist?

As I explained, "Scientists can probably tell you where the Universe originated in relation to the known Universe, but not from a reference point outside of this Universe." In order to plot where our Universe started we would need an overview of a large area surrounding our Universe...but I'm not even sure if we can quantize abstract "space" outside of a Universe.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Many modern observations have tracked things moving towards one another, and things decelerating, so the theory of a massive "expansion" or "explosion" from a singular point is now called into question. There does not appear to be a central point, and if we assume the theory is correct, then it means there is also an outer limit to the expansion, so hypothetically, if we travelled faster than the explosion, what would we encounter at the edge?

There is an overwhelming amount of data that clearly shows the Universe is expanding and the majority of things are moving away from one another. However I am not sure about the most recent studies, it is quite possible the Universe is starting to deflate, in line with something like the Big Bounce theory. And I have no idea what would happen at the edge, I posed the very same question.