I Am a Straight, Married Christian Male in Support of Gay Marriage

Originally posted by yes4141
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

That is not what I have said. I said that no matter how much you believe you know something there are always inevitable thoughts of doubt, this is especially true when it is something which is not physical/ theoretical/
without proof that you claim to know.

That the sky is blue is "experiential". It's not science. If you experience something, it is real to you. There's no doubt. We know things, not because of philosophy and debate, but because we've seen enough to know. I showed you the path that you could go looking if you wanted to find these things out for yourself. Anyone who goes looking will find these same things. You just don't want to go look for yourself. You want to be told what is, and given proof. But, there's no proof. There's only your experience. Your thoughts, your seeking, your discovery, your finding the same truth out for yourself. I tell you that if you walk down that road you will see the light at the end of the tunnel. You say, how is it you have no doubt? I say, because I've walked down the road myself, and others have walked down the same road, and we've all seen the same light. That's how I know you too will see the same light. The same way I know you see the "blue" sky when you look up.

Originally posted by sdcigarpig

Do you not understand the law as it is on the books? A wife can not be compelled to testify against her husband in a court of law. The civil union does not offer that protection what so ever. That means 2 men who are in a civil union, one can be compelled to testify against the other or face penalty under the law.

In all probability, that's because Christian men wrote the law, and the LORD of the Bible says that when a man and a woman are joined in marriage they "become one flesh". So, if the woman were to testify against her husband, she would be testifying against herself. And the law protects people from testifying against themselves.
So, as long as the woman still feels she is united with her husband, it would be ridiculous to force her to testify against him.

Two men "cannot become one flesh", no matter what they do.

Actually, in the future, they may be able to achieve something of the sort, when genetic engineering gets more advanced. But, right now, it is impossible.

Originally posted by DRAZIW

Originally posted by sdcigarpig

Do you not understand the law as it is on the books? A wife can not be compelled to testify against her husband in a court of law. The civil union does not offer that protection what so ever. That means 2 men who are in a civil union, one can be compelled to testify against the other or face penalty under the law.

In all probability, that's because Christian men wrote the law

*Brainblast*
I think I just found the anwser to this discussion!

We all have heard about/Know about the gay double standred right?
No? Ok well its pretty simple,

"Lesbians are ok, gays are Ew/LOL"

This is carried all throughout the united states and the world. If two lesbians are making out, a guys gonna be all like , Oh whatevs, and walk away. But if two GUYS are making out, suddenly homosexuality is gross and dangerous. This double standred is MOSTLY with guys, because woman tend to like homosexuals (Male or female) There is science to prove that homophobia is ingrained in male brains... In a sense.

No im not making this up

I forgot how to embed, so here is the link to the next part: www.helium.com...

"The study itself was very simple, a couple composed of two gay men would enter a bar which was not noted as being either gay friendly or gay hostile, and simply sit at the bar and follow a set pattern of behaviors. They would show some affection for one another, but never anything that went so far as actually kissing on the mouth. Their physical interaction was limited to holding hands, normal touching, hugging, and kisses on the check. Verbally however they were to carry on discussing the issues any couple would, with the exception of sex. The following day the process would be replicated by a lesbian couple and the results would be compared.
board is that the couple composed of two men were asked to leave the establishment nearly three times as often as the lesbian couple. The gay couple also generally noted more hostile comments and fewer defenders of their right to be in the establishment from both patrons and staff. The lesbian couples on the other hand noted being accepted far more often as measured by being included in discussions, diversionary activities such as billiards, darts, etc..., and that they were often the beneficiary of men buying or offering to buy them drinks."

I can relate this to ANOTHER study, more scientific with the same results.

Although i cant find a link (You can if you look hard enough) I remember my psyc teacher telling me about this in my junior year. In a study where men and woman where shown pictures of gay, lesbian, and straight porn, they found varying results between men a woman.

Woman: Reacted the same to all photos. This leads many to belive that the "Maternal instinct" Is for all humans, not just children. Woman love everyone and everything.

Men:
Gay Porn: Reacted with 3 main emotional responses on the brain scan, Fear, Anger, and Hate.
Lesbian porn: Guys reacted just as they did with straight porn, with erotic feelings and emotions. Scientist think that the male brain projects a subconsious image of THEM being one of the two lesbians in the scene, but they can not be sure.

Now, Back to

In all probability, that's because Christian men wrote the law

MEN wrote the law!! AND the bible!!! With our modren day science, we can now hypothisize that the reason this happened is because men wrote homophobia into the law.

I mean what other arguments make sense?

Homosexuality is Wrong: So is Lobbying
Homosexuality is Gross: So are toilets
Homosexuality is Unatural: Say that to the 10,000 Animals who do it.
Homosexuality is New Age %*$&#: Say that to rome
Homosexuality will Land you in hell: Does hell exist? I mean the bible only mentions it like twice Lol.

Originally posted by Daedal

Now Paul may have only used the term "sexually immoral",but clearly Paul did state what the churches stance was on homosexuality at the time and defined to the church what that terminology meant.So clearly Paul did speak of homosexuality but just didn't use direct words to imply it.

This was Paul's stance on homosexuality, and how he conducted the church to act. He also had similar stances on marriage itself:

1 Corinthians 7:8-9
But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

1 Corinthians 7:27-28
Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned

He never personally met Jesus alive. Paul met Him on the road after He had risen while he was on his way to persecute and put to death more Christ followers. Paul was struck blind and converted immediately, but he was not truly an apostle, and didn't travel and know Him like the 12 did. Paul was a Jew at heart, converted to Christ. He was raised on the Torah and Talmud, so he still had the old prejudices that he had to deal with.

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


The first one seems like it might be Out of contex lol

Originally posted by DRAZIW


What happens when the lust is allowed to increase unchecked? First the spirit lusts after the flesh. That causes the fall of man, into the physical world from the eternal spirit realm. Then man lusts after woman, again man falls another step. Then, man lusts after man, again he falls down some more. Then, man lusts after the animals, the sheep, the cows, the fowl. He falls further. Then, man is no longer content to just taste the flesh of others with his lower tongue, he desires to "eat the flesh of men", and becomes a cannibal. Human cannibalism is the final stage in the fall, in the physical world, just like the recent German cannibal

So...wait....

Premarital sex leads to....cannibalism? How would saying "I do" prevent that?

Originally posted by spw184
If two lesbians are making out, a guys gonna be all like , Oh whatevs, and walk away.

Walk away? Well I guess if they're uggos. But if they're good looking, I'm gonna watch!






Please be able to take a joke.

Originally posted by RedGod

Originally posted by spw184
If two lesbians are making out, a guys gonna be all like , Oh whatevs, and walk away.

Walk away? Well I guess if they're uggos. But if they're good looking, I'm gonna watch!






Please be able to take a joke.

Lol dont worry im not gonna be all like RAAAAH!! I can take a joke, as long as you make it look like a joke, which i hope 95% of the posts on this thread just failed at....

Originally posted by spw184
Homosexuality will Land you in hell: Does hell exist? I mean the bible only mentions it like twice Lol.

Actually hell is mentioned 53 times in the Bible Link

Originally posted by GNUFanx86

Originally posted by spw184
Homosexuality will Land you in hell: Does hell exist? I mean the bible only mentions it like twice Lol.

Actually hell is mentioned 53 times in the Bible Link

Luke 6:35-38;42
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." ... How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Matthew 18:21-35
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times." "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go. "But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened. "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

Yay for biblequoting game!

I "only" read the first 10 pages so I don't know if this was posted before but here is interesting article for the homophobes: The top five most common antigay arguments debunked.

Just to quote some interesting parts:

It’s long been suspected that homophobes have a greater chance of being repressed homosexuals themselves, and studies have confirmed this suspicion.

80% actually.

According to a 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl homosexuality has been observed in nearly 1500 species. A subsequent review of existing research in 2009 determined that homosexuality is nearly universal in the animal kingdom.

And according to a review by the Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience, evidence suggests sexual differentiation of the brain occurs in the womb, programming our gender identity as well as our sexual orientation.

I used to have a book that said that the Russians actually did experiments in the 50's or so in which they were able to make gay's by messing with the hormone levels in 1st semester pregnant women.

“All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective.

Considering that sexual orientation has a biological basis it’s hard to imagine how anyone could disagree with it. If god made everything then he would have had to make homosexuals as well. If it exists universally in the animal kingdom then it’s natural for them as well as humans since humans are just animals (primates) as well.

In short: they're born this way so just let them be.

As long as it's between condescending adults, who cares what people do.
Stop sticking your nose in other people's lives and dare to look at yourself for once.

P.s.: does anyone know when they're going to update the life guidebooks named "holy books"?
Life has changed a lot since they were written and a lot of it is outdated.

reply to post by Amanda81


lol yeah, like the part where it says like only 144,000 are going to go to heaven ._.

reply to post by spw184


I never said I wanted to get in a Bible quoting match. I just wanted to correct your incorrect information about how many times Hell is mentioned in the Bible. You said it was 2 when it is a far higher number at 53 references.

Judging by your previous posts and attitude your incorrect information was probably intentional.

reply to post by Amanda81


You never bothered to reference the study that says 80% of men that are against homosexuality are homosexual themselves.

Where is the study? Who did this study? Was the study able to be confirmed by other independent researchers?

Anyone can make up statistics on this site. We need more proof that just saying 80%

Originally posted by RedGod
So...wait....

Premarital sex leads to....cannibalism? How would saying "I do" prevent that?

Premarital sex between a man and a virgin woman is ok, according to the Old Testament, the woman becomes the man's wife, and he pays her father a fee, since he didn't ask permission to take her first. So, if you say "I do" before or after sex, all's well in God's Kingdom.


Every woman a man has sex with is his wife.

The act of sex itself, joins them, and they become one flesh. The "ceremony" of marriage, is just that, a ceremony. Actual marriage requires consummation. Whether the consummation occurs before or after doesn't matter.

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the
damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife;" -- Deuteronomy 22:28-29 KJV Bible

The cannibalism only occurs when the natural results of sex are prevented from materializing, so the sex partners don't suffer any consequences, allowing their lust to increase unchecked.

reply to post by DRAZIW

Yet by that sentiment, you would instill the Christian sentiment of Sharia in the United States of America, forcing everyone to adopt and follow a creed, even though they do not want such. We are a nation of laws, and can not be forced or expected to follow any religion or creed. Freedom of Religion is just that, we have the freedom to worship as we see fit, not as one person or government would dictate or impose on us.

The bible states a lot of things, yet you do not see anyone following those laws or rules, the sum 615 of them, nor should they.

Under that very argument, and it has been used before, interracial marriages were forbidden, and those who were not Christian of faith, well their marriages were null and void.

The real pain of it all for that very argument is that we are a nation of laws, not a nation of religion. While religion may have value when it comes to the individual, it does not have a place when it comes to the very laws that govern every one, or for the very rights of the individual. Now if you were to make laws that would allow for those who were gay not to, say pay taxes, then those who were gay may just decide not to persue the marriage issue, after all why should a gay person pay taxes, they don't have children, and there fore should not be expected to help educate such.

reply to post by DRAZIW

And yet, many people tend to forget one small passage in the new testament, the ultimate promise that trumps all of the laws in the bible, the one made by Jesus to St. Peter, stating: What every you hold true on Earth, I shall hold true in Heaven, and what every you forbid on earth, I shall forbid in heaven.

Pretty strong promise, and as the current state of the clergy in the Catholic church, after all the Catholic Priests are the representatives of the throne of St. Peter, commiting homosexual acts, that means that the argument about man and woman in the biblical sense has been over turned, every time a priest commits a homosexual act and is not defrocked or excommunicated, and thus it stands to reason that it is upheld in Heaven and by God.

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

And yet, many people tend to forget one small passage in the new testament, the ultimate promise that trumps all of the laws in the bible, the one made by Jesus to St. Peter, stating: What every you hold true on Earth, I shall hold true in Heaven, and what every you forbid on earth, I shall forbid in heaven.

Pretty strong promise, and as the current state of the clergy in the Catholic church, after all the Catholic Priests are the representatives of the throne of St. Peter, commiting homosexual acts, that means that the argument about man and woman in the biblical sense has been over turned, every time a priest commits a homosexual act and is not defrocked or excommunicated, and thus it stands to reason that it is upheld in Heaven and by God.

That is some pretty twisted logic there. Christ has a lot to say about that.

"But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea." -Matthew 18:6

" “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." -Matthew 7:15-20

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" -Matthew 7:21-23

Just because the Catholic Church practices abominations doesn't mean Christ approves of it, he rejects evil! The Bible also warned of people rejecting sound doctrine "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." -2 Timothy 4:3

"In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them." -Jude 1:8-10

"These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. " -Jude 1:12-13

You are grossly twisting scripture to make it sound like Christ approves of homosexuality and pedophilia. It's sick to think that. You are by far the worse blasphemer I have ever come across and you sir will answer to God on the Day of Judgment for corrupting the words of Christ!

reply to post by GNUFanx86


Actually it is Mathew 16:19, where that promise is made to St. Peter, by Jesus himself.

In short, it is simply stating, that what every is held true on earth, will be held true in heaven, and what ever is held as false on earth, will be held false in heaven.

This is a promise made, and ultimately, it goes back to the Catholic church, as non of the other Christian church’s were around at that time frame, and only the Catholic church has the throne of St. Peter, and followed him after the departure of Jesus.

I am not claiming to be a prophet, nor am I causing anyone to sin, nor anything else, it is just merely stating the facts, as they were written and spoken.

It is very ironic, with observation, one could say that even after the great schism of so long ago, the Christian church is still fractured in its belief and thought, not to mention actions. Everyone picks and chooses the passage that suites their belief to justify the ends, and yet no one actually follows through with the whole, thus diminishing it all.

People would pick the laws they would so choose to follow, yet ignore the rest, and fully ignore the message. Actions speak louder than words, and unfortunately those words ultimately are used to spur actions.

So why is it fair that people can use Leviticus as an excuse to condem one thing, but bring up the promise made by Jesus, and it is wrong?