I Am a Straight, Married Christian Male in Support of Gay Marriage

Originally posted by GNUFanx86
reply to post by Amanda81

 

You never bothered to reference the study that says 80% of men that are against homosexuality are homosexual themselves.

Where is the study? Who did this study? Was the study able to be confirmed by other independent researchers?

Anyone can make up statistics on this site. We need more proof that just saying 80%

If you had bothered to check the link, you would have read about the study.

But Here ya go: Most homophobes gay.
And here's the video about the study:
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

And yet, many people tend to forget one small passage in the new testament, the ultimate promise that trumps all of the laws in the bible, the one made by Jesus to St. Peter, stating: What every you hold true on Earth, I shall hold true in Heaven, and what every you forbid on earth, I shall forbid in heaven.

Pretty strong promise, and as the current state of the clergy in the Catholic church, after all the Catholic Priests are the representatives of the throne of St. Peter, commiting homosexual acts, that means that the argument about man and woman in the biblical sense has been over turned, every time a priest commits a homosexual act and is not defrocked or excommunicated, and thus it stands to reason that it is upheld in Heaven and by God.

But, there's no flesh in heaven. Homosexuality requires flesh. Neither is there any marriage between man and woman. Sorry, no sex there !

So It is written:

"Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children. And the second took her to wife, and he died childless. And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. Last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection."
-- Luke|20:28-36 KJV Bible

So, you have to interpret the verses in the right context.

reply to post by The Old American


How can you be a Christian who supports gay marriage? That is the acme of oxymoron. Your God says gay is incorrect yet you support it.... I am so overwhelmed by your insanity that I think you killed whatever was left of my sanity.

reply to post by Amanda81


ONE study doesn't prove anything. In science the experiment has to be replicated and conducted by other scientists to verify to see if it's true. There has to be other experiments done that reaches the same result for it to be true. It also needs to be peer reviewed.

By your logic people that are -phobic of anything secretly like it. So people that are arachnophobic really love spiders and people that are claustrophobic really like enclosed spaces. Do racists secretly want to be the race they hate too?

reply to post by DRAZIW


I have said that I respect those who have a religion because of subjective experience far more than those who have simply been told about it in one way or another.

I have never said that you need definitive proof for something to exist- you have simply assumed that. However, when something does not have definitive proof you cannot claim to KNOW it and will always have moments when you think "maybe this isn't true, maybe my experiences weren't as I perceived them".

I showed you the path that you could go looking if you wanted to find these things out for yourself. Anyone who goes looking will find these same things.

Again, such arrogance! I thought pride was a bad thing! Why then have isolated societies not found these things in the same way you have? Are they not able to find your 'truth' without the book and centuries of powerful men to tell you what and how that truth is?

You haven't had the decency to properly answer any tough questions in this 'conversation', simply used it to reassure yourself.


P.S. ^^^^ a few posts up you are actually lecturing someone because he got what was in heaven 'wrong' and you try to explain what it is actually like. Are you serious?? I'll be very gentle and say: What about the possibility that the text is incorrect? Or maybe even written by men who haven't been to such a place? Or maybe even used as a social construct so people abdicate responsibility because it doesn't matter that they are downtrodden, poverty-stricken and entirely oppressed because all will be right in the next world...

Originally posted by yes4141
What about the possibility that the text is incorrect? Or maybe even written by men who haven't been to such a place? Or maybe even used as a social construct so people abdicate responsibility because it doesn't matter that they are downtrodden, poverty-stricken and entirely oppressed because all will be right in the next world..

No one says you have to believe.

I said I know. But, you don't have to know anything.

You can dwell in self-doubt, if it suits you. I only said you can know if you want to. Like people can know 1+1=2 if they want, they only need to learn some arithmetic. Everything is not "doubtful". You may doubt that someone else knows things they claim they do. But, that doesn't stop them from knowing those things. You have right to doubt, until you know yourself. When you go to the doctor, he may tell you that you have X-disease. He knows more than you. But, he can also make a mistake. And a second doctor might tell you a different thing, he may say you don't have X-disease after all, but you have Y-disease. Both doctors may claim to know. But, who is right and who is wrong? You'll never know until you have the medical knowledge yourself.

You go find out, and you'll see. But, don't blame me for saying "I know." Because I do. And until you prove me wrong, you have no right to tell me that I should doubt my knowledge. If you have doubts, fine, but don't assume everybody has doubts too, or they must also doubt, since you can't see how they could possibly know right now.

I think you love doubt, because it lets you off the hook. If you can get everybody to accept your position that everything is doubtful, then all things must be acceptable. That lets you do whatever you want, and call it good.

Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by The Old American

 

Change your ways and ways of thinking or change your christian status; you can't have both better yet.. read the bible from cover to cover.................

That's what Im saying, to call yourself a Christian means that you agree with what God agrees with and disagree with what he disagrees with...

reply to post by DRAZIW

Yet you still cherry pick the verse, and biblical law to justify discriminating against one group. Funny how it always goes that way, yet is it not hypocritical of people to do that? Do you follow all of the 615 laws in the bible, as was written and stated by Moses, to guide to be living a righteous life? Mind you that the penalty for violating most of them is death, from eating the wrong thing, to wearing the wrong item of clothing, even having contact with women who are menstrating, is all considered to be against the lord in one fashion or another.

Ultimately the point is this: Marriage is no longer a religious ceremony, as it has not been such for years, and it is now in the hands of the state. As we are a nation of laws, and everyone is to be equal under the law, the religious argument that would be put out, is not admissable in either a court of law or in any context of the law, or it would result in a violation of the Church and State. Not every one is a Christian or follows those beliefs, just as not every one believes as you would or even anyone for that matter. There are alot of different denominations of Christian churches and there are some who would seek to allow gay people to wed in a religious fashion.

Really guys? You can't do it if the bible doesnt say, or does say that you can't?

stop doing this than:
DIVORCE & RE-MARRIAGE- we all knew that
LUST & ADULTERY- This includes and sex not for reproduction, or even just LOOKING.
PRIDE, GOSSIP, SPITE, PARENTAL DISOBEDIENCE, INVENTORS OF EVIL THINGS- So now, athletes, high schoolers, toddlers, teenagers, and gunsmiths are all going to hell too....
SWEARING - Boom, Im roasted
KEEPING COMPANY WITH SINNERS - Oshi-
PUBLIC DONATIONS TO CHARITY - Not joking!! You cant show that you donated, so any charity sponsers, most resturants, and telethons.. Sizzle
NUMEROLOGY, ASTROLOGY, OCCULT, SEANCES, MIND-READING, PALM-READING,
TELLING THE FUTURE - Well, everyone on ATS always is doing numerology and trying to tell the future so... Burn!Burn!
SHRIMP - EviiiL!!! no eating!

reply to post by GNUFanx86


It's not my fault that they haven't done any more experiments. I agree that they need to do experiments but I somehow doubt that a new experiment will show a extreme difference in results.
How often do you not hear that anti-gay men are caught in the bushes with another man or similar stories? Just type in the words "homophobic" and "gay" in Google and you'll come across some interesting posts.

Your assumption that 1 phobia is the same as another is wrong though, there are plenty of reasons why people have phobia's, most seem to be based on biological, chemical, cultural, and psychological origins or a mix of all 4 according to this link: PHOBIAS
When you look at the following quote I think that homophobia for most should get a more appropriate word because I doubt that so many people actually fear gay people.

A phobia is a persistent irrational fear that causes a person to feel extreme anxiety. When people have a phobic reaction to a situation, a condition, or a thing, they may experience sweating, increased heart rate, difficulty in breathing, and an overwhelming desire to run away. Sometimes they even fear that they are in imminent danger of dying.

Gayhater is a lot easier word and causes a lot less misunderstanding.

Here is a article by the way that may speak to you more then any scientific study (of which there are plenty) about suppressed emotions: Denial and repressed emotions.

On a side note: marriage predates the bible and everyone with common sense knows that the bible is based on stories. The History of Weddings – Tying the Knot through the Ages

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

Yet you still cherry pick the verse, and biblical law to justify discriminating against one group.

It is impossible to talk about everything at once. We have to pick out things to make points.

Funny how it always goes that way, yet is it not hypocritical of people to do that?

There is no place in the Bible that God says men with men is ok, etc.. So, there are no verses to pick out to support the alternative viewpoint. It always goes one way. There's no hypocrisy there.

Do you follow all of the 615 laws in the bible, as was written and stated by Moses, to guide to be living a righteous life?

I do not. I don't follow all the laws in the Bible. God gave me a brain to use. I only follow those laws that I can understand. If I can see the reason for the law, then I "may" follow it. Even if I know something is wrong, I may still do it. What I will not do, is call a wrong thing right !

The Lord of the Bible wrote laws, and he gave men the "choice" to obey or not to obey those laws. You have the freedom to disobey. But, you don't have the freedom to disobey and claim you're obeying at the same time.

Mind you that the penalty for violating most of them is death, from eating the wrong thing, to wearing the wrong item of clothing, even having contact with women who are menstrating, is all considered to be against the lord in one fashion or another.

It really depends on who is measuring out the penalty; God or men?

Ultimately the point is this: Marriage is no longer a religious ceremony, as it has not been such for years, and it is now in the hands of the state.

The essential problem is that "marriage" involves two separate things. One is the "civil union" aspect, the other is the "religious union" aspect. It's the confusion between the two that is causing all the problems.

The proper solution is to remove the word "mariage" from the civil laws, and replace it with a term that can be used "unambiguously" for all types of "unions". Not just gay unions, but platonic unions, and group unions, etc..there's much more to the issue than just gay marriage. Any group of people should be given the right to pledge their "love" to each other and live together, getting all the benefits of the state. But, this idea is not supported by any religion, so leave "marriage" for the type of unions that the religions offer.

Note that businesses have many types of "unions". There are "corporations", "partnerships", "proprietorships", "limited liability companies", "foundations", "trusts", etc..it would be "confusing" to use the same term for all these variations of business "unions".

The love "unions" should be treated the same way. Create an overall term like "love union", and then define each type that people say they want to form. Why use an "old term" like marriage, for a new concept, like "gay union" ?

Why destroy the old language, and introduce confusion, just to facilitate the new ideas?

As we are a nation of laws, and everyone is to be equal under the law, the religious argument that would be put out, is not admissible in either a court of law or in any context of the law, or it would result in a violation of the Church and State.

When men sit down and create a civil law, they do it according to what they think is right. The idea of what is right comes from their moral and ethical values, which in turn is "influenced" by their religion.

They don't actually put their religion into law. They only draw ideas from it. If the christian men really put their religion into the civil law, they would have allowed a man to marry as many women as he could support. After all, King Solomon had 800 wives. Why did the Christian men limit a man to one wife? There's no place in the bible where the Lord says a man must have one wife only. A woman is only allowed to have one husband, otherwise she is called a harlot in the bible. But, men have the freedom to take many wives with blessing.

Not every one is a Christian or follows those beliefs,

But all religions recognize marriage as the union between a man and one or more women. There's no religion that accepts gay marriages.

just as not every one believes as you would or even anyone for that matter. There are alot of different denominations of Christian churches and there are some who would seek to allow gay people to wed in a religious fashion.

A lot of people do things that are wrong. They are allowed to do wrong by the Lord. They are not allowed to call the wrong action right though. They are not allowed to change the words of the book.

Revelation 22:19 "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part..

Originally posted by DRAZIW
Premarital sex between a man and a virgin woman is ok, according to the Old Testament, the woman becomes the man's wife, and he pays her father a fee, since he didn't ask permission to take her first. So, if you say "I do" before or after sex, all's well in God's Kingdom.


Every woman a man has sex with is his wife.

The act of sex itself, joins them, and they become one flesh. The "ceremony" of marriage, is just that, a ceremony. Actual marriage requires consummation. Whether the consummation occurs before or after doesn't matter.

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the
damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife;" -- Deuteronomy 22:28-29 KJV Bible

The cannibalism only occurs when the natural results of sex are prevented from materializing, so the sex partners don't suffer any consequences, allowing their lust to increase unchecked.

You realize that the verse you quoted is about rape, right? Like, that's supposed to be the punishment for it.

So, let me see if I have this figured out. according to you, I can go around, rape a bunch of virgin girls, pay their fathers fifty bucks each, and take those girls as my wives who, of course, have to obey me fully and have very little in the way of rights.

However, if I have consensual sex with someone who isn't a virgin, or if my wives have sex with each other, then that will lead us to become so mad with lust that we will eventually be unable to control our selves and will consume the flesh of others.

That about the long and short of it?

Every woman a man has sex with is his wife.

I know a lot of women who are about to be really annoyed by this when I tell them they should be tending to my needs.

Originally posted by RedGod

You realize that the verse you quoted is about rape, right? Like, that's supposed to be the punishment for it.

It doesn't matter whether the woman consented or not.

In those days, it was the father's consent the man needed. A woman was like the 15 year old girls today. Her consent didn't count as consent.

So, let me see if I have this figured out. according to you, I can go around, rape a bunch of virgin girls, pay their fathers fifty bucks each, and take those girls as my wives who, of course, have to obey me fully and have very little in the way of rights.

Yes, but also realize that you could "never divorce" any of them either.

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." -- Deuteronomy 22:28-29 KJV Bible

So, you could create a nightmare for yourself. Imagine being forced to live with those women who you wronged, and they could do anything to you, but you have no right to get rid of any of them ! They don't have to obey you. The only reason a wife obeys her husband is because of the threat of divorce. He could divorce her, and remove his support, if she didn't do as he wishes. But, these women are given the power to do their will without worry of being divorced.

So, you better "LOVE" all of them. Because, if you don't you'd have created hell on earth for your self.

See, how just the LORD's law is?

However, if I have consensual sex with someone who isn't a virgin, or if my wives have sex with each other, then that will lead us to become so mad with lust that we will eventually be unable to control our selves and will consume the flesh of others.

That about the long and short of it?

You got it. Except, all the children that would result from those encounters with non-virgins must be prevented from coming into the world too, or at least you must be able to shirk your responsibility for looking after all the kids.

Every woman a man has sex with is his wife.

I know a lot of women who are about to be really annoyed by this when I tell them they should be tending to my needs.

Careful there, they might read the whole verse in the bible themselves and some may realize that it is you who has to tend to their needs for the rest of your natural life !

Originally posted by DRAZIW
It doesn't matter whether the woman consented or not.

In those days, it was the father's consent the man needed. A woman was like the 15 year old girls today. Her consent didn't count as consent.

And since god's word is immutable and unchanging, then her consent still doesn't matter, right? I mean, we should still be condemning homosexuals, so we should still be fine with rape.

Yes, but also realize that you could "never divorce" any of them either.

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." -- Deuteronomy 22:28-29 KJV Bible

So, you could create a nightmare for yourself. Imagine being forced to live with those women who you wronged, and they could do anything to you, but you have no right to get rid of any of them ! They don't have to obey you. The only reason a wife obeys her husband is because of the threat of divorce. He could divorce her, and remove his support, if she didn't do as he wishes. But, these women are given the power to do their will without worry of being divorced.

So, you better "LOVE" all of them. Because, if you don't you'd have created hell on earth for your self.

See, how just the LORD's law is?

Sure, I can't divorce them, but I can still beat them for being disobedient. Sure, it's not explicitly stated in the bible, from what I understand, but that's okay. As long as I repent after conditioning my wives for a little while and turning them into perfect little wives, everything is a-okay.

You got it. Except, all the children that would result from those encounters with non-virgins must be prevented from coming into the world too, or at least you must be able to shirk your responsibility for looking after all the kids.

Is that.....I'm supposed to shirk my responsibilities to my son because he was born to a non-virgin? Well that makes sense....

Looking at the above, I've come to two conclusions: 1) Your god, if "He" exists, is in fact evil. 2) The people who are attracted to this faith, and follow what is written, do so because they too are evil.

Originally posted by pa.Frost
reply to post by The Old American

 

How can you be a Christian who supports gay marriage? That is the acme of oxymoron. Your God says gay is incorrect yet you support it.... I am so overwhelmed by your insanity that I think you killed whatever was left of my sanity.

I can't help it. That's the way God made me.

/TOA

Originally posted by RedGod

And since god's word is immutable and unchanging, then her consent still doesn't matter, right? I mean, we should still be condemning homosexuals, so we should still be fine with rape.

You do understand that if the man did rape the woman, then the fact that he can never divorce her is "punishment" for him?

But, if she did love him, and consented, the two of them may be overjoyed at being wedded for life, against her father's wishes !!!

Do you see the justice?

Sure, I can't divorce them, but I can still beat them for being disobedient. Sure, it's not explicitly stated in the bible, from what I understand, but that's okay. As long as I repent after conditioning my wives for a little while and turning them into perfect little wives, everything is a-okay.

What's to stop her from beating you? Putting poison in your food? Tormenting you day and night with taunts and disrespect too? You're stuck with her.

Is that.....I'm supposed to shirk my responsibilities to my son because he was born to a non-virgin? Well that makes sense....

If you read that correctly, you'd notice that any kids that result as the fruit of your loins, you become responsible for. In fact, that's the basis for "child support" in the modern world. The modern society may not call the non-virgin your "wife", but still requires you to support any kids produced just as if she were your wife. So, now you've got the "obligations" without the benefits.

Looking at the above, I've come to two conclusions: 1) Your god, if "He" exists, is in fact evil.

Yes. Of course. God is both good and evil. He put the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" in the midst of the garden, remember?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. -- Isaiah 45:7 KJV Bible

That's why people "fear" the LORD. Who "fears" the good man?

Do you know anybody who is "afraid" of "Jesus"?

But, they fear his FATHER !

Imagine, a father who would send his own son, and then persecute him, and string him up on a cross!

2) The people who are attracted to this faith, and follow what is written, do so because they too are evil.

Well, man is both good and evil. Like God, who is both good and evil.

But, the whole object of the Bible is to tell man to focus on the GOOD and leave the EVIL to the LORD.

To me belongeth vengeance, and recompense; their .... Deuteronomy 32:35 KJV Bible

The homosexual may reject God now because evil doesn't like the light shone on their darkness but the day will come when they will stand before the Judgment Throne of God and answer to their sin and rejection of Jesus Christ.

Homosexuality is a lifestyle that leads to dead with rampant drug use, alcoholism, violence, and STDS/HIV/AIDS. It's a path that leads to death!

Please reject the darkness and embrace the saving light of Jesus Christ. He can free you from that sinful lifestyle! Don't chose Hell. God can free you!

Originally posted by GNUFanx86

Homosexuality is a lifestyle that leads to dead with rampant drug use, alcoholism, violence, and STDS/HIV/AIDS. It's a path that leads to death!

Im gay. I have a sexualy active boyfriend. Iv'e never tried drugs. I only drink occasionaly and am not in any extent of the imagination addicted. I have never been in a fight. I do not have any STDS. I am still alive.

Boom, Roasted.

reply to post by spw184


Hardly roasted. Studies have shown all those are higher in the homosexual community.

Alcohol & Drug abuse www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

www.teen-drug-abuse.org...

www.michaelshouse.com...

HIV/AIDS
www.avert.org...

www.cdc.gov...

www.lifesitenews.com...

Domestic Violence

www.narth.com...

www.salon.com...

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Looks like your arrogance is shot down. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean it's not a problem in the homosexual community. Those above articles prove that it is, you can't argue with facts.

Originally posted by GNUFanx86
reply to post by spw184

 

Hardly roasted. Studies have shown all those are higher in the homosexual community.

Alcohol & Drug abuse www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

www.teen-drug-abuse.org...

www.michaelshouse.com...

HIV/AIDS
www.avert.org...

www.cdc.gov...

www.lifesitenews.com...

Domestic Violence

www.narth.com...

www.salon.com...

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Looks like your arrogance is shot down. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean it's not a problem in the homosexual community. Those above articles prove that it is, you can't argue with facts.

edit on 13-9-2011 by GNUFanx86 because: (no reason given)

Well maybe if people like you wouldn't discriminate against us and tell us that we're going to burn in hell every day, than maybe we wouldn't drink and have violent behaviors. There is also a reason that homosexuals are more likely to commit suicide. Add up the facts bibleboy.

As far as hiv, yes that is a majority "gay" illness, however HETEROSEXUALS are the fastest growing group.