What Does Abortion Have To Do With Pro-Choice?

OMG mamaj..I can't believe you are saying that a woman should have child that was created through rape?...and that is your reasoning..well something bad happened ..now lets have something good happen? Right..a child born to a poor mother..who can't afford to feed it properly..and every time she looks at her child she sees the face of her rapist ,and relives the torment? What can possibly be good about this scenario..and quite frankly.. it will do nothing for a child's self esteem to find out it was a product of rape.. and his or hers father is a rapist.

reply to post by gabby2011


I NEVER said that "a woman" should have a child if it was created through rape! I said how I WOULD THINK and what I WOULD DO. Get it? Great!

Now that we are on the subject let me ask YOU....when does it become the childs right to live and not a choice for the mother? How old??

reply to post by marg6043




fire up, because they want us to lay down and be silent !!

Originally posted by MamaJ
Once the sperm meets the egg ......life begins. It begins to grow because it is ALIVE and right before the ninth week (about a month) the living "thing" has a head, arms, legs, and so on. Is that a person to you? Or is it still just a fetus who has no right to life? Just askin'.

TO ME, it's a person. As I have said, I believe that life begins at conception and I would not have an abortion (even in the circumstances or rape or incest) unless it threatened my life. When I was pregnant, that tiny thing in me was my baby and no one could tell me any different. TO ME, it's a little person. To another woman, it may not be. It's her choice to make and none of my business.

But in the eyes of the law, it is not a person. It is a fetus.

When I say only persons have rights, I'm speaking legally. The 14th Amendment says that all PERSONS BORN or naturalized in the US have certain rights. There is no protection for a 'life' that may reside within a PERSON'S body.
.

Originally posted by MamaJ

OMG mamaj..I can't believe you are saying that a woman should have child that was created through rape?...and that is your reasoning..well something bad happened ..now lets have something good happen? Right..a child born to a poor mother..who can't afford to feed it properly..and every time she looks at her child she sees the face of her rapist ,and relives the torment? What can possibly be good about this scenario..and quite frankly.. it will do nothing for a child's self esteem to find out it was a product of rape.. and his or hers father is a rapist.

reply to post by gabby2011

 

I NEVER said that "a woman" should have a child if it was created through rape! I said how I WOULD THINK and what I WOULD DO. Get it? Great!

Now that we are on the subject let me ask YOU....when does it become the childs right to live and not a choice for the mother? How old??

well you better speak then after your being raped ok ??? speaking in the wind is just for fools !!

I feel happy for you, ok ?? so let's speak now about the others that are NOT happy at al

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


We, or let me say I AM talking about the child. The right of the child. Once their is life growing inside you it is no longer about YOU, its now about WE. We because you now have another LIFE inside of you. When is the child old enough to be considered as a being to have a right to live? Just askin'.

Before I post, I want to make it clear that, while I am not strictly pro-choice, I wouldn't get in the way of (vote against) a woman getting an abortion. I believe abortion is wrong. I believe it is murder. I believe that, short of rape, or health issues, abortions should be illegal. But I won't vote for laws to make them illegal, because I believe in individual freedoms, and the natural consequences of making those choices. And couching it terms of "tissue" or "fetus" and "pro-choice" to make it hurt less and to help you sleep at night is infantile. Grow up and call a spade a spade.

There is obviously a pretty fundamental disconnect here with some people. There is only an illusion of choice. Women don't really have a "right to do whatever they want with their bodies". The state has granted you permission, not a right. The will of the people is strong, and with Roe v. Wade the people gave you that permission, and that permission could be taken away at any time.

So if you're for it make your arguments count. If you want to continue your permission to have an abortion, I suggest you take a look at the fetal homicide laws in your state and work with pro-choice groups to overturn them. If anyone takes a look at this like I have, your permission to abort a fetus is going to go bye-bye.

If you're against it, organize groups and put out literature showing that there is a double standard taking place. It's either murder all the time or it isn't.

And for goodness sake, quit with the "a man has no say in it!" A husband does absolutely have a say in it. As a man, and a husband, it is damned offensive to say that I would never have a say in terminating my wife's pregnancy. It is just as much his decision as it is a wife's. There are circumstances, of course, where a man does not; even a husband does not. But those cases are statistically low enough that they do not support a man never having a say in it.

/TOA

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


I never said I was NEVER RAPED. Your mouth runs waaaay too fast for me and I am beings as nice as I can be. I have the RIGHT to MY OWN opinion. Just because I do not agree with you or the others who are singing praises with you does not mean we do not have the right to our own opinion. Get over yourself already.

I SAID I never conceived a baby after being raped. Many women get raped when we are younger. AGain....get over it and move on! Life can be tragic and we can conjure up many excuses to do BS but at the end of the day..it is a choice. Whether right or wrong everyone has to live with what they have or have not done.

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


Be careful, is about over 200 web side of anti abortion groups that their job is to get into public boards like this one and get into abortion topics to control opinion.

If you post often on this type of topics you will learn to spot them. Remember you can not argue with a broken record because intelligent debate is not in their repertoire, you have seen that already in this thread.

My thing is politics.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

OK. Then it should be just fine without my body...

The fact that a fetus relies on the mother for sustenance doesn't change the fact that it is a genetically distinct human being. As for personhood, it can be debated whether consciousness is what makes someone 'alive' or not, but no one can deny that abortion robs an individual of their life. It seems like you have pure spite for fetuses because they are a 'nuisance' to you. Every human being started out as an embryo and went through the fetal. It's simply the early stages of life.

I'm not dictating their child's life! THEIR child's life is none of my business! THEIR choice is none of my business. And vice versa.

You misunderstood. What I was saying was that it IS men's business, because it's their children whose lives women are allowed to dictate.

A fetus doesn't have a right to life. Rights belong to PEOPLE. Of a pregnant woman (a person) and a fetus, whose rights are protected? The PERSON'S.

The life of the fetus should be protected. The fetus is not intentionally 'infringing' on anyone else's rights. Fetuses are helpless and need to have their lives protected- women, on the other hand are not helpless and had the right to either abstain from sex or be sterilized. You're basically saying women need to be protected from themselves.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with you when it comes to a woman having an abortion when rape or other extreme circumstances are involved. (ok, there's 1 here

) I really don't know why you have been pushing it so much because the answer is simply, most people agree with you there.

It's 2011 and yep, we're still talking about it. Maybe we're still talking about it because people still cannot in good conscience try to justify a mother terminating (under most circumstances it's because they are too young, financially unstable etc) her son/daughter's life because they made a "bad choice" and don't want to take responsibility for that choice. There are other alternatives EVEN when the mother has no means to financially take care of said son/daughter. Again, maybe we're still talking about it because it IS still an issue.

edit on 6-9-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

yes ok, 100 % ok, it's still a issue, but you - society - does VERY LITTLE TO REALLY HELP THOSE WOMEN IN DIFFICULTY !! they are left alone with their only choice !!
so, if you think " we have to help those women " well push your society to help them then !!
but, with the neo-cons and their neo-liberal system in USA wanting to diminish all kind of public help and other
measures to help the poor and etc .. I think your society does not want to help woman in despair !!
so what, the choice is simple but very difficult for every woman, everybody agrees !!

Originally posted by marg6043

Be careful, is about over 200 web side of anti abortion groups that their job is to get into public boards like this one and get into abortion topics to control opinion.

Are you implying that I am one of them?

Off the top of my head i'd say that this is my first abortion thread
just to be on the safe side I might say 2nd, i'm pretty sure it's my first though
been a member for quite some time now

Am I one of them?

And how do you learn to spot them?
After you "know" a person is one of them what confirmation do you receive that they are indeed one of them?

Originally posted by MamaJ

I feel happy for you, ok ?? so let's speak now about the others that are NOT happy at al

reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

We, or let me say I AM talking about the child. The right of the child. Once their is life growing inside you it is no longer about YOU, its now about WE. We because you now have another LIFE inside of you. When is the child old enough to be considered as a being to have a right to live? Just askin'.

and what about the right of the woman ?? doesn't she count in your eyes ?
thanks for your sympathy for the unborn, that is nice, but you also could have some sympathy with your sisters in despair no ?? oh I see, they are just woman ok ....

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by marg6043

Be careful, is about over 200 web side of anti abortion groups that their job is to get into public boards like this one and get into abortion topics to control opinion.

Are you implying that I am one of them?

Off the top of my head i'd say that this is my first abortion thread
just to be on the safe side I might say 2nd, i'm pretty sure it's my first though
been a member for quite some time now

Am I one of them?

And how do you learn to spot them?
After you "know" a person is one of them what confirmation do you receive that they are indeed one of them?

I was wondering the same thing...not to mention the talk of an intelligent debate. Ha! An intelligent debate in my opinion is one that can be had without getting heated and personal. I say my opinion and damn if it doesn't get heated. I get called a fool, ridiculous and so on. Ha! Whatever though..

Originally posted by Charmed707
It seems like you have pure spite for fetuses because they are a 'nuisance' to you.

You're making things up. I have never said or indicated anything of the sort.

What I was saying was that it IS men's business, because it's their children whose lives women are allowed to dictate.

If a man wants to give his opinion to his pregnant lady and let his desires be known, that's fine, but he can't FORCE the woman to comply with his wishes. When I say it's not a man's business, I don't mean with his own personal relationship, I mean it's none of their business whether or not someone ELSE (like me and all the women who are NOT his girlfriend or wife) has an abortion.

The life of the fetus should be protected.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. But why should the fetus' rights overrule the woman's rights?

You're basically saying women need to be protected from themselves.

You can put words in my mouth that I didn't say, but it's not making ME look silly.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


First I was going to ignore the post, but then you got me thinking, is so sad that you knowing me in this boards for long will ask that question or even hint that I was posting that in references to you.

Sad Mothernacademia truly sad. I guess when it comes to public boards you never truly know anybody.

reply to post by MamaJ


I think you hit the nail on the head. if some of the posters on here *ahem* are soooo pro the "right" for a woman to choose their child's' fate..then there really would be no argument when it comes to YOUR right to choose how to act in any given scenario. The plain and simple simple truth is, they don't agree with YOUR opinion on the subject and that's it.

My opinion? It's all "me, me, me, me" these days. Not a whole lot of respect for life or those who believe in restoring it. Personally, as I've stated before, unless rape or another extreme circumstance is involved...The abortion issue in most cases, tends to seem very selfishly motivated. Use the law to justify lack of personal responsibility and accountability for ones actions resulting in the termination of a child. That's the "empowering" turn in which humanity has taken, unfortunately.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by marg6043

Be careful, is about over 200 web side of anti abortion groups that their job is to get into public boards like this one and get into abortion topics to control opinion.

Are you implying that I am one of them?

Off the top of my head i'd say that this is my first abortion thread
just to be on the safe side I might say 2nd, i'm pretty sure it's my first though
been a member for quite some time now

Am I one of them?

And how do you learn to spot them?
After you "know" a person is one of them what confirmation do you receive that they are indeed one of them?

I was wondering the same thing...not to mention the talk of an intelligent debate. Ha! An intelligent debate in my opinion is one that can be had without getting heated and personal. I say my opinion and damn if it doesn't get heated. I get called a fool, ridiculous and so on. Ha! Whatever though..

edit on 6-9-2011 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)

nobody is saying you are ridiculous, please accept some heating up !!
you have the right to say your opinion, we have the right to say what we think !
we all live on this stupid world, we have to make it better for everybody, the raped women, the women victim of incest, the women that are very poor, the pregnant women left alone by their macho stupid males .....
ok ?
so, if you can help them it's fantastic, we do not speak here about your problems !!! but about the great ones of some other women, not the little ones of the wealthy dreaming people !!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Look at me, do you see me making any assumptions that many of you pro-abortionists screaming "Don't force your morals on me" or "it's none of your business" are liberals and are hypocritical saying don't force your morals on me or mind your own business when you might force others to pay tax for the entitlement system and scream "It's your responsibility to ensure everyone has health care and a roof over their head?".

No i'm not making assumptions, perhaps none of you should either

thank you

Ya, you are making assumptions that what goes on in someones else's body is any of your damn business.

It is pretty hypocritical of conservatives to state that they are for smaller government, while having no
compunction granting government the power to decide the goings on in a woman's body.

How ITF are you going get smaller government by giving government the authority to force women to have
children? Is this a reverse Totalitarian China Approach?

If you force an unprepared woman to have a child she doesn't want are you gonna pay for it Einstein?

Or are gonna bitch about the cost, Albert?

Talk about hypocrites

Small Government,

that forces people to have kids

Originally posted by Sunlionspirit

Originally posted by MamaJ

I feel happy for you, ok ?? so let's speak now about the others that are NOT happy at al

reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

We, or let me say I AM talking about the child. The right of the child. Once their is life growing inside you it is no longer about YOU, its now about WE. We because you now have another LIFE inside of you. When is the child old enough to be considered as a being to have a right to live? Just askin'.

and what about the right of the woman ?? doesn't she count in your eyes ?
thanks for your sympathy for the unborn, that is nice, but you also could have some sympathy with your sisters in despair no ?? oh I see, they are just woman ok ....

edit on 6-9-2011 by Sunlionspirit because: (no reason given)

The right of the woman? The subject is not the woman...she is fine. She is living....she is not the one being killed!

I have sympathy for my sisters....hell I am the one my friends call on because they know I CARE. They know I will be there.....

I have visited the grave of my niece who was only 10 weeks old. We buried her and believe she would have been something to really brag about but she was not able to come into this world. She died while in the womb. She was not terminated....she died. Had she been given the chance at life ....man....what would she have been like? I think about those babies who didn't have that chance. They were doomed by circumstances and killed. The choice is up to the mom...true enough. BUT....it still doesn't make it any prettier.

There comes a time when you have responsibility for others and put yourself aside for the brother/sister/child/uncle/nephew and so on. Once life begins to grow it is not about just the one life....there is now two.

We are talking about the unborn that has no rights. No one cares about the one they cannot see, hold, hear cry, because then it would be too hard to kill it.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I think you hit the nail on the head.

if some of the posters on here *ahem* are soooo pro the "right" for a woman to choose their child's' fate..then there really would be no argument when it comes to YOUR right to choose how to act in any given scenario. The plain and simple simple truth is, they don't agree with YOUR opinion on the subject and that's it.

My opinion? It's all "me, me, me, me" these days. Not a whole lot of respect for life or those who believe in restoring it. Personally, as I've stated before, unless rape or another extreme circumstance is involved...The abortion issue in most cases, tends to seem very selfishly motivated. Use the law to justify lack of personal responsibility, and accountability for ones actions. That's the "empowering" turn in which humanity has taken, unfortunately.

edit on 6-9-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

answer me please but very very honestly : do you think woman have an abortion for pleasure, I repeat for PLEASURE - for fun ????? do you really think this is all about a luxury decision ? some kind of cosmetic surgery or dental intervention ???
you do not understand a 0,0001 % of the despair of pregnant women not knowing what to do to get out of the despair !!! Shame !