Turkey navy to escort aid ships to Palestinians in Gaza

I have no dog in this race when it comes to Israel and Palestine. But I always wonder why the onus is always on Israel to relent on a Palestinian state. Isreal is greatly outnumbered in the ME by the Arabs and the totality of the of the other countries there. Why doesn't Egypt or Saudi Arabia offer a strip of the barren desert to Hamas as a Palestiniam state. Why? I'll tell you why. Other Arabs don't want the Palestinians on their turf either because they dislike them too and only use the Palestinian situation as a ploy to justify their hatred for the Israelis. I'll tell you what. Israel might be eventually exterminated by larger Arab nations but they won't go down without a fight............. and the land of Israel and large swaths of country of surrounding ME nations will be uninhabital anyway because they'll be sure to use their nukes. I love how Israel is also always accused of killing innocent civilians. Why? Because it's a known fact the chicken sh!t Palestinians use the innocents as human shields.

reply to post by Ryanssuperman

Instead, you spouted Religious non-sense...which this is nothing about. I can see you're a very closed minded person, so our conversation is over. I whole heartedly feel sorry for you. I don't say this out of anger or frustration, I honestly look down and feel sorry for you.

You completely ignored my reply, giving evidence of Israel bombing 5 neighbor countries, without declaring war. Just because they wanted to.

Its not because "they just wanted to", as if they were bored and decided to bomb somebody. They bomb their enemies. Sadaam Hussein wanted to create a nuclear bomb to destroy Israel. Syria likewise was meddling with nuclear technology for the same reasons.

Having nuclear bombs is something that gives Israel clout amongst its Arab and Muslim neighbors. They need to preserve this in order to preserve their sovereignty. It is that simple. If another country in the region gets a bomb, Israel loses a great strategic advantage.

They dont have nukes to use, but simply to threaten to use. And they also dont 'manipulate' anyone either. They dont want anything more then to be left alone; in peace. But knowing the true intents of their Arab neighbors and their Taqiyya tactics, they know they will be destroyed if they lose this advantage.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Ryanssuperman

 

Instead, you spouted Religious non-sense...which this is nothing about. I can see you're a very closed minded person, so our conversation is over. I whole heartedly feel sorry for you. I don't say this out of anger or frustration, I honestly look down and feel sorry for you.

You completely ignored my reply, giving evidence of Israel bombing 5 neighbor countries, without declaring war. Just because they wanted to.

Its not because "they just wanted to", as if they were bored and decided to bomb somebody. They bomb their enemies. Sadaam Hussein wanted to create a nuclear bomb to destroy Israel. Syria likewise was meddling with nuclear technology for the same reasons.

Having nuclear bombs is something that gives Israel clout amongst its Arab and Muslim neighbors. They need to preserve this in order to preserve their sovereignty. It is that simple. If another country in the region gets a bomb, Israel loses a great strategic advantage.

They dont have nukes to use, but simply to threaten to use. And they also dont 'manipulate' anyone either. They dont want anything more then to be left alone; in peace. But knowing the true intents of their Arab neighbors and their Taqiyya tactics, they know they will be destroyed if they lose this advantage.

WHAT gives Israel the RIGHT to pick and choose who can advance what technology? THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO TAKE ANY MILITARY ACTION OUTSIDE THEIR BOARDERS. What part of that arent you understanding?

Is Israel equivalent to NATO? The UN? No. Israel is one country, with a FALSE sense of power and entitlement.

Just because they know someone has a nuclear plant, doesn't give them the right to bomb it because their pompous attitudes dont think anyone else should have a nuke. Thats ridiculous. This is why a large portion of the world dislikes Israel.

And btw, if you think that Syria, Iran, Lebanon ect don't have nukes...you are sorely mistaken my friend. Just because it's not disclosed, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

reply to post by dontreally

Im saying youre blowing these divisions out of proportion.

I am saying you are playing them down far too much. In fact I disagree an I am being rather conservative in my views.

It is true the Arab and Muslim world (persians aren't Arabs- I thought you would know that) is united in opposition towards Israel. But where we talking about Arab unity against Israel? No. We were talking about the Arab world and the fact that they are internally divided so deeply that they could almost never co-operate even on instances with Israel (Egypt and Jordan going against the Arab League are prime examples).

You act as if the Arabs are comming together to scheme to take over the whole world (as you have on multiple outher threads). The Arabs can barely come together to chose what kind of filling they want in their sandwiches or if they want a sandwhich at all.

Last time I checked France and America was not part of the Middle East. Israel initial population was 1,000,000 - 1,500,000. They recieved land which they were hemoginous in. That is the primary cause for the stupid map drawn up by the UN.

The fact that Jews were given land in the first place is monumental. They don't deserve any more and they certainly aren't legally entitled to anymore. It would be unrealistic to give them more land (i.e the West Bank and Gaza) as it would mean they would have to run a vioent, tollitarian dictatorship in those regions which would mean Israel wouldn't be the "only democracy in the Middle East".

This doesnt actually explain anything. Youre merely saying there are disputes.

Not disputes, but divisions amongst ethni grounds.

So the "tribal" issue really isnt the focal point, is it? Its Religion. Its Islam. Islam is the uniting of different tribes into one people.

Why to once again divert attention and blame Islam again. It is the South which is deeply Islamic. The East and West isn't uniting behind Islam. In fact religion isn't unitiing different tribes into one people, if anything it is seperating them. Where the hell do you make up this crap? Did you even read my post?

These sort of issues unify, and people can look past the doctrinal religious differences.

None-the-less this so called "unification" dosen't last long at all. Although it is another reason for Israel to take REAL steps with the Palestinians in achieving a comprehensive peace settlement. It will generate greater regional stability and the Arabs won't have a catalyst for their animosity towards Israel,

I am hearing alot of Anti Semit in some of the above posts. Why is defending your country from others who reapeatedly fire rocket attackes at Jewis cities considered some who wrong and unjustifier. If the HAMAS would stop insiting the attacks and leave the jews alone --- no fighting.... how would you react to being shot at and mortored every week. I'll say it is a mess over there, but i can not say i blame Isreal for defending themselves. They get shot at everywhere they turn. People won't LET them live in peace. Always some country making a KILL all JEWS statement. And yea, you guessed it , mainly Known Terrorist.

Well, guess we will see soon enough who is bluffing.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Turkey has every right to be in international waters but once they enter Israels waters Israel has the right to blow their asses out ot the water and that is what they should do to protect their national waters.

Originally posted by UnBreakable
I have no dog in this race when it comes to Israel and Palestine. But I always wonder why the onus is always on Israel to relent on a Palestinian state. Isreal is greatly outnumbered in the ME by the Arabs and the totality of the of the other countries there. Why doesn't Egypt or Saudi Arabia offer a strip of the barren desert to Hamas as a Palestiniam state. Why? I'll tell you why. Other Arabs don't want the Palestinians on their turf either because they dislike them too and only use the Palestinian situation as a ploy to justify their hatred for the Israelis. I'll tell you what. Israel might be eventually exterminated by larger Arab nations but they won't go down without a fight............. and the land of Israel and large swaths of country of surrounding ME nations will be uninhabital anyway because they'll be sure to use their nukes. I love how Israel is also always accused of killing innocent civilians. Why? Because it's a known fact the chicken sh!t Palestinians use the innocents as human shields.

What a bunch of nonsense, if you want to look at who is not wanted in this world, have a look at why they raped and pillaged the Palestinians in the first place to try and get the jews out of other countries where no-one wanted them. "Chicken sh!t Palestinians?", spare us your diatribe, the jews use apaches and weapons donated to them by the American tax-payers to kill women and children at times, we know who the cowards are, and how did the jews get Israel? Did they get it by themselves? or did they bribe other countries into helping their zionist agenda? Just because America hasnt got the balls to break the chains of their jewish owners, dont try to put the rest of the world into the category of wanting to be ruled by people who call themselves the chosen race. Let me guess, you think George Bush is a genius too.

reply to post by guitarplayer


Oh so Israel not only are allowed to rape and pillage the Palestinians in order ot steal their land but they also are allowed to own all the sorrounding seas now too, silly me of course they can do what they want after all they are the chosen race, right?

Israel has its own nuclear weapons. They were not supplied by the USA. Israel made a deal with South Africa to get yellow cake. They could be using stolen technology to build bombs. I would think they had the equipment to process the yellow cake.

reply to post by guitarplayer


Turkey has no intention of going in Israeli waters. They are delivering the aid to the shores of Gaza. Israel may decide to uphold the blockade on Gaza. That could cause many different reactions. They won't be going in Israeli waters though because as you said, that would give Israel reason to sink their ships.

Originally posted by dontreally
Its not because "they just wanted to", as if they were bored and decided to bomb somebody. They bomb their enemies. Sadaam Hussein wanted to create a nuclear bomb to destroy Israel. Syria likewise was meddling with nuclear technology for the same reasons.

Having nuclear bombs is something that gives Israel clout amongst its Arab and Muslim neighbors. They need to preserve this in order to preserve their sovereignty. It is that simple. If another country in the region gets a bomb, Israel loses a great strategic advantage.

They dont have nukes to use, but simply to threaten to use. And they also dont 'manipulate' anyone either. They dont want anything more then to be left alone; in peace. But knowing the true intents of their Arab neighbors and their Taqiyya tactics, they know they will be destroyed if they lose this advantage.

Oh, yeah, what a bright idea, steal someones land because no-one wants to deal with your lies and cunning manipulation, then massacre their people, and then make nukes and say we want nothing more than to be left alone, lol, pls, we dont all have the I.Q of the average American.

Originally posted by spoor
Israel has shown that they have constantly faced real threats and beaten them, Turkey will fail trying to break a legal blockade.

Er, no, actually, Israel has never once faced a "real threat." They've waged war against civilians for 60 years, faced a war against their neighbors who were about as organized as epileptic cats, sneak-attacked Egypt a few times, and have recently been losing engagement to guerrilla units.

And even this spectacularly mediocre record has been utterly dependent on aid from, alternatingly, the United States or the Soviet Bloc.

Also the blockade is not legal. Might I suggest having a look at maritime law? Thanks in advance.

Here we go again....

This could get ugly... could be the ww3 spark that ignites the tinder box.

reply to post by kreese


Nah, if anything, it'll result in Turkey and Israel yelling at each other in the UN Assembly.

This is not going to result in World War 3, and I'll tell you why.

No one really gives a jar of dog piss about Israel or Turkey. American policy towards Israel, for instance, is mostly a sham used by both parties to wring votes from American Jews and evangelical Christians. if there ever came a day where Israel faced destruction unless the US intervened with men on the ground, well, Washington would call up whoever's attacking Israel and congratulate them on their recent promotion, where should we put the new embassy?

Essentially it serves as nothing but an outpost to try to put American policy into effect in the region. if that outpost gets in real trouble, well, we'll just find a new one. Like we did when the Shah was toppled, like we did when South Vietnam fell, like we did when united Fruit couldn't rule Honduras anymore. "Oh well."

reply to post by backinblack


Maybe that's what Turkey is doing. Calling out the U.S. by protecting convoys. It's hard to tell.

Originally posted by StayAlert1
I am hearing alot of Anti Semit in some of the above posts. Why is defending your country from others who reapeatedly fire rocket attackes at Jewis cities considered some who wrong and unjustifier. If the HAMAS would stop insiting the attacks and leave the jews alone --- no fighting.... how would you react to being shot at and mortored every week. I'll say it is a mess over there, but i can not say i blame Isreal for defending themselves. They get shot at everywhere they turn. People won't LET them live in peace. Always some country making a KILL all JEWS statement. And yea, you guessed it , mainly Known Terrorist.

Well, guess we will see soon enough who is bluffing.

You seem to have very little idea on the History, "how would you react to being shot at and mortored every week"? the jews did exactly this to form Israel, and alot worse, I dont know how one can be so blind, and if you want to know the answer to that question ask the Afghans and the Iraqis now that America's zionist leaders are attacking them based on lies.

"mainly known terrorists", terrorists to who? the jewish media and those who cant think for themselves?

Let me ask you, how would you like it if I destroyed your house, stole your land, killed your family, and then convinced others that you were a terrorist for fighting back with what little you had left? huh? then you might have an idea of how the Palestinians feel, oh and the Iraqi's, the Afghans, and the Libyans. Stop regurgitating zionist propoganda and have look at the big picture.

reply to post by backinblack


Listen I am Iranian and even we know not to mess with Israel, I may not like their polotics but we respect the heck out of their military and intel prowess. You can never under estimate them, when you do you are done for.

Yes they have proven themselves and they are always in a contant state of war and defense/offense, this goes a hell of a long way against a military that never fights.

Its like the crap the China and Russian military lovers here talk about how the US would lose, sorry you should wake up from your dream because the US military has been in contant war for a decade, no other force on earth has that much experience (YES EXPERIENCE COUNTS, not always numbers)...and advanced weaponry...

Besides the US would back Israel regardless what you military mini minds think, Obama would not even dare go against them with his poll numbers in the tank as they are, he needs the campaign money..: )

Just my 2 cents...

sniper out...

reply to post by Haxsaw


Never heard of them raping...but I guess you are just using the term loosely....

reply to post by kreese


If I had a dollar for every time someone said "here comes WW3" I would be rich...a lot of you really need to learn military and political tactics...this would be a UN dispute, Turkey would not dare go to war with Israel and I am an Iranian/American Muslim and dont care for Israel polotics...but I have a mind and it tells me, this is just sabor rattling...

the only way Turkey could take on Israel is if it were a combined multi-nation attack...case closed..

sniper out

Turkey is not going to do anything. Palestinians don't want peace, hamas wants war to remain relevant. What happened to the economy left to the Palestinians? I'll give you a hint, it was destroyed and if you guessed by Israel you need to guess again.
Palestine is just propaganda for Arab nations, and Turkey, which used to be western and secular is increasingly becoming theocratic. NATO would never support a war against our only true middle eastern ally, that's not being an Israeli puppet that's just not being completely brain dead.
You want a Palestine state, stop the terrorism, plain and simple. Which is why I don't see it ever happening in my lifetime.