How does one get "saved" according to christianity?

reply to post by jmdewey60

Seems you calculate every word to turn a certain direction. People are not saved by loving God.

Deuteronomy 6:1
[ Love the LORD Your God ] These are the commands, decrees and laws the LORD your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess,

Deuteronomy 6:5
Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.

Deuteronomy 7:12
If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the LORD your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your ancestors.

Deuteronomy 10:12
[ Fear the LORD ] And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in obedience to him, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,

Deuteronomy 11:1
[ Love and Obey the LORD ] Love the LORD your God and keep his requirements, his decrees, his laws and his commands always.

Deuteronomy 11:13
So if you faithfully obey the commands I am giving you today—to love the LORD your God and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul—

Matthew 6:24
“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Matthew 22:37
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

Mark 12:30
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’

Luke 10:27
He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ ; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
Luke 10:26-28 (in Context) Luke 10 (Whole Chapter)


This last verse is really the key. It takes the many verses already listed and even the hundreds that I didn't list (LINK TO LOVE) and paints a picture of where faith starts. Love for God is the foundation for loving others apart from pride. Pride elevates the 'self' above others. God demands equality when we consider others as ourselves. Love is all that remains where all else is removed.

1 Corinthians 13

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

reply to post by jmdewey60

The NT talks about an administration of a covenant.
A covenant of angels.
It never makes claims about God's involvement.
If I am wrong about that, then be sure to point out my error but all you have is a philosophy of ignoring the spiritual and clinging to the physical so your life will cease to exist when your physical body ceases to exist.
You do not offer salvation but only slavery.

The covenant with man is an eternal covenant through Israel, the light unto the nations. Angels would love to look into these matters, but man is given the privelege.

Hebrews 13:20
[ Benediction and Final Greetings ] Now may the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep,

1 Peter 1:12

It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Angels long to see what you see. God reveals salvation to men through the Holy Spirit. The Word of God is the Living Word, which is Christ in us.

Hebrews 12:24
to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

You have come to GOD. God is the one who sprinkled the new blood and who speaks a better word than the blood of Able. We are to see to it that we do not refuse God. Read the verses below. This has nothing to do with angels.

Hebrews 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”[e] 27 The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.


Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Man was made lower than the angels for now. After salvation, we will be lifted up with Christ and made to rule at His side.

A. Rev 1:5-6(KJV) says, “Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

We are waiting for now. The second coming of Christ is what all are waiting for who are in Christ. This is an event yet to come.

Hebrews 9

27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

We are currently waiting. You must be born again to wait. It's not an option.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

This has nothing to do with angels.

Because you are not quoting anything to do with the Old Covenant.

The eternal covenant is not the old covenant but most likely a covenant Jesus made before he was Jesus the man, to do what needed to be done in the eventuality of an outbreak of sin, such as what we have today.

There is a blessing mentioned in the NT that came through Abraham but it is explained as being fulfilled in Jesus.

The prophecies were something Jesus and his disciples were interested in because the prophets did write some things about him. This does not somehow validate the entire OT as if it is all still good.

You are doing this thing again, where you are saying "God" as if it is interchangeable with "Jesus." Jesus is the high priest doing the sprinkling and it is a new covenant and in the temple not built with hands, in Heaven.

After salvation, we will be lifted up with Christ and made to rule at His side.

There are some people who will rule, as in sitting on thrones but they are a special group who were killed as martyrs for Christ. They may only rule as much as to be witnesses to judgement when everyone else has their names come up. You can't have every single Christian rule, otherwise who would they rule over? If you say, "the nations", then that is wrong because the Christians are the people of the nations. To me, you are just making happy talk to get people who have a desire for power to accept your philosophy. That is not to say that there will not be a select group who make it through the final tribulation who will be especially recognized.

Rev 22:14
Blessed are those who wash their robes so they can have access to the tree of life and can enter into the city by the gates.

Rev 7:14
So I said to him, “My lord, you know the answer.” Then he said to me, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb!

Revelation is not the story of people going to Heaven to be cleansed, it is the story of people who have become cleansed, going to Heaven.

reply to post by jmdewey60


The entire Bible is written to all generations. As far as I can see, John 3 tells the entire story to us if we listen. We have been here through it all. When Jesus said, "You must be born again," He didn't state an option other than water or spirit. The water in ancient Hebrew pictographs is blood. A final judgment after the 1000 year reign of Christ assumes other judgments before. According to the most famous quote about men living once, Hebrews 9:27 says that a person lives once and then comes judgment. What most people fail to read is the very next verse. 9:28 tells us that we are all waiting for salvation. Where are we waiting? Go back to John 3 and you find the answer. Until we find union with the spirit of God, we are born again into the water. The water is the baptism of the material world. All such symbols are rituals pointing to the true meaning. The veil of the temple is the veil over our memory of our past lives. We must live by faith. Each person (human) lives once. The soul cannot die. A final judgment from God awaits us all. Salvation can only come through the Holy Spirit of God which is found in Christ.

I do not cling to theology. I allow God to show me as I live. If I cling to the pride of theology, I would not see the answer. Theology blinds. Jesus said the path is narrow. The path is not found in the church (exoteric). The church clings to materialism and dogma from theology and pride. The paths is not found in the esoteric spirituality movement. They cling to free thought and love as the idol feeding pride. The path is narrow and between these two. It is found by allowing the flaming sword of Genesis 3 to do its work on the heart of man. This is the consuming fire spoken of throughout the Bible that refines the heart of man and allows the sacrifice of pride. In the end, we get to keep our self when we find love for God. No law can be broken if we love God and others as ourselves.

When Abram was told to sacrifice Issac, He did so willingly to follow God in obedience and faith. At the last moment, God stopped him and provided a lamb in place of Issac. Abram was willing to give up what he loved most in the world. For us, this is the idol of our pride. God changed his name to Abraham by adding the Hebrew letter 'Hey' to his name. In the Ancient Hebrew pictographs, the letter hey represent a man with his arms outstretched to God in faith and praise. When we are willing to look to God as our strength as a father, we allow Him to shepherd us instead of using our pride as the guide in life. The other pictograph for HEY is the shepherd's staff. This represents the leading of God in the wilderness of life. We reside in the tent (body / Temporary house).

See this website and examine the story as told by the pictographs in Ancient Hebrew. LINK If you examine the roots to the Hebrew alphabet, you see the story emerge. The God of the OT is the God of the NT love. He is the Father. He is the Good Shepherd. He is Jesus as the Living Word. He is the Holy Spirit. He is so much more that we cannot know. He is the hidden God. God is one.

reply to post by SuperiorEd
I was brought up in a church which is heavily into the Old Testament.
You may have heard of it, Seventh Day Adventist.
So you can't lecture me on the OT.
Really seriously heavily into it from birth.
So you have zero chance of converting me into something that took me 57 years to get out of.

reply to post by SuperiorEd
Back to your post:
Just a bunch of philosophizing.
And so what, whatever pictographs mean.
You seem to live in an esoteric world where you are picking out little numeric codes as if this is a puzzle God made.
This is the sort of thing Jesus probably meant in John 3, when he spoke about earthly things.

I'm not trying to convert. I am just sticking to scripture and what it is saying. The Bible is unified form cover to cover.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I was brought up in a church which is heavily into the Old Testament.
You may have heard of it, Seventh Day Adventist.
So you can't lecture me on the OT.
Really seriously heavily into it from birth.
So you have zero chance of converting me into something that took me 57 years to get out of.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

I am just sticking to scripture and what it is saying. The Bible is unified form cover to cover.

You don't make that point.
You go on about church and theology being ego, while you are busy making up your own church and theology.
So how is that not being proud?

Jesus never spoke without using a parable. The expectation is that the Western mind takes the concrete Hebrew perspective and translates to the abstract. As for the pictographs, you need to have a good understanding of linguistics to understand what I just said in the last sentence. The Ancient Hebrew language derives from Phoenician. Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and then English are all connected to this original pictographic language. Try this website to understand. LINK

Esoteric is defined as hidden. The Bible is largely a pictograph of symbolic meaning. Baptism is the immersion of the soul into the water of the material body. The Ancient Hebrew pictograph for water also branches from its root to form the word blood. All Hebrew words are based off their roots and then branch like a tree forming multiple layers of meaning. The Bible, rightly divided, can be seen as telling an overall story on many levels. Like an onion, our job is to peel the layers and reveal the meaning behind the veil. This is the point of discovering truth. The journey is the point of it all. The emerald is found by the slave but belongs to the King. Who receives the greater reward? The king or the slave?

"Be not arrogant because of that which you know; deal with the ignorant as with the learned; for the barriers of art are not closed, no artist being in possession of the perfection to which he should aspire. But good words are more difficult to find than the emerald, for it is by slaves that that is discovered among the rocks of pegmatite." PTAH HOTEP

The amazing part about digging as a slave to God is this: The emerald becomes the property of the faithful slave in the end. In Hebrew society, slavery was not forced labor. It was a system of working off debt. The slave was typically working off debt or paying the price for a misdeed. In other cases, they were willingly working to avoid poverty. Jesus paid the price for anyone who takes his name (character) and becomes Christ-like. This is the byproduct of loving God and others. Faith is revealed by works. Works cannot save, but faith can. Works follow faith, not the other way around.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Back to your post:
Just a bunch of philosophizing.
And so what, whatever pictographs mean.
You seem to live in an esoteric world where you are picking out little numeric codes as if this is a puzzle God made.
This is the sort of thing Jesus probably meant in John 3, when he spoke about earthly things.

reply to post by SuperiorEd
I don't really care for you philosophy because almost every word you say is wrong.
There is no useful information in it at all.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I am just sticking to scripture and what it is saying. The Bible is unified form cover to cover.

You don't make that point.
You go on about church and theology being ego, while you are busy making up your own church and theology.
So how is that not being proud?

I can only let the light I have shine. Review any post I make and you will find context based on scripture. I have been in forums since 1990 and have read anything I can get my hands on to compare to scripture. The Bible contains the root of all the rest. Please tell me what specific words you disagree with and then provide context by quoting scripture. There are no paradoxes in the Bible that cannot be resolved if we work together rather than divided by pride.

From my perspective, there is a vast difference between seeking truth from a platform of bias and pride and seeking truth from humility apart from pride. The answer to your question about me is found in 1 Corinthians 2:

6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

Perceived truth that is in error will always go against the mind and the heart to cause cognitive dissonance. Truth agrees with both the mind and the heart. For this to work, the heart needs to be as clean as possible. Pride needs to be removed and replaced with the wisdom of God by the leading of the spirit. As much as possible, this is always my aim.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I don't really care for you philosophy because almost every word you say is wrong.
There is no useful information in it at all.

How so. Provide context. I have not said anything that is not backed by a scripture.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I don't really care for you philosophy because almost every word you say is wrong.
There is no useful information in it at all.

How so. Provide context. I have not said anything that is not backed by a scripture.

You are some sort of person with a fixation on Judaism so nothing you say is relevant.
You throw in the name, Jesus, but misapplied and not according to the Bible.
It's your interpretation of this idealized culture that you worship.
That is completely meaningless to me.
You apparently believe that God is going to recreate this world you imagine so you are busy preparing a user's manual for life as servants to the Jews.
I don't believe in your religion of racial superiority for a mythical bloodline, who we have to submit to.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

Perceived truth that is in error will always go against the mind and the heart to cause cognitive dissonance. Truth agrees with both the mind and the heart. For this to work, the heart needs to be as clean as possible. Pride needs to be removed and replaced with the wisdom of God by the leading of the spirit. As much as possible, this is always my aim.

You're just spouting psychobabble that doesn't mean anything.
I don't know what truth you think you have.
I read the Bible and I point out what it says because a lot of people don't know what it says, so they are vulnerable to the cultists who are constantly on this forum promoting their cult religion. You are one of them but an offshoot from the main cult but ultimately you have the same goal, which is to hijack Jesus to promote some brand of slavery to an Old Testament God, the same god who Jesus came to free us from.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I don't really care for you philosophy because almost every word you say is wrong.
There is no useful information in it at all.

How so. Provide context. I have not said anything that is not backed by a scripture.

You are some sort of person with a fixation on Judaism so nothing you say is relevant.
You throw in the name, Jesus, but misapplied and not according to the Bible.
It's your interpretation of this idealized culture that you worship.
That is completely meaningless to me.
You apparently believe that God is going to recreate this world you imagine so you are busy preparing a user's manual for life as servants to the Jews.
I don't believe in your religion of racial superiority for a mythical bloodline, who we have to submit to.

Christianity is based on the the light unto the nations. Israel is the light unto the nations. As for asking you to take my perspective, I only provide it here for others to discuss. This is a religious thread in the religion section of ATS the last time I looked.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Perceived truth that is in error will always go against the mind and the heart to cause cognitive dissonance. Truth agrees with both the mind and the heart. For this to work, the heart needs to be as clean as possible. Pride needs to be removed and replaced with the wisdom of God by the leading of the spirit. As much as possible, this is always my aim.

You're just spouting psychobabble that doesn't mean anything.
I don't know what truth you think you have.
I read the Bible and I point out what it says because a lot of people don't know what it says, so they are vulnerable to the cultists who are constantly on this forum promoting their cult religion. You are one of them but an offshoot from the main cult but ultimately you have the same goal, which is to hijack Jesus to promote some brand of slavery to an Old Testament God, the same god who Jesus came to free us from.

From your perspective, who is the Father that Jesus is referring to here?

John 10
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

reply to post by SuperiorEd

From your perspective, who is the Father that Jesus is referring to here?

I suppose you have a pictograph to demonstrate that it is really the angel of Sinai.
I would say, not Yahweh.
That's just a name and to me, not even a name but a way of not giving a name.
That was an angel who said he appeared previously to other people, as one thing or another, which were probably the commonly used name to mean god, at that time.
For all I know, Yahweh was him saying, "in the past I showed up representing God, but now I am representing myself, who I am."
So he was an angel who was used to talking and looking like God, so he just went ahead and acted out the part.
Anyway, the Father in the quote you gave would be the real God who no one has seen, who is spirit and lives in impenetrable light.

You may not believe me here, but I can honestly say that I have been where you are. Take this for what it is worth. You are experiencing the flaming sword consuming your pride as we speak. I know the cognitive dissonance you are experiencing right now and I struggled with this for years. When God works on our pride, truth appears as a paradox in reflection. It requires us to choose. It's like looking into a mirror but not knowing the true reflection. A mirror cannot reflect itself. We can only see ourselves in the reflection. Truth reveals who we are inside. The only way to measure who we are inside is to view ourselves by the reflection. Pride reveals itself as bias against instead of love for truth.

Considering the fact that God is working on you right now, please realize that anything that appears to engage your bias against God is in fact God working on your pride. Face it and find the truth from love. 1 Corinthians 13 can define this type of love for you. If you embrace your pride against God, the pride will blind you. If you release it to God and ask Him to show you the truth, this act of faith will reveal what is hidden. Bit by bit, the consuming fire of God changes your heart of stone for a heart of flesh.

Take a minute to read the verses in the OT that bother you. Cross reference these verses with Mathew Henry commentaries. You will see that the OT God and Jesus are one. The confusion you are speaking below is not truth. You won't be able to see it clearly until you give it to God first.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

From your perspective, who is the Father that Jesus is referring to here?

I suppose you have a pictograph to demonstrate that it is really the angel of Sinai.
I would say, not Yahweh.
That's just a name and to me, not even a name but a way of not giving a name.
That was an angel who said he appeared previously to other people, as one thing or another, which were probably the commonly used name to mean god, at that time.
For all I know, Yahweh was him saying, "in the past I showed up representing God, but now I am representing myself, who I am."
So he was an angel who was used to talking and looking like God, so he just went ahead and acted out the part.
Anyway, the Father in the quote you gave would be the real God who no one has seen, who is spirit and lives in impenetrable light.

edit on 3-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by SuperiorEd
I already told you that your psychobabble is worthless.
I am going in the opposite direction from you.
I started out where you are now and have broken free from the Bronze Age concept of a tribal god.
I told you that when you first posted on this sub-forum.

ETA: I keep hearing this bit about pride and you are a long ways off in your analysis.
It is righteous indignation as I am looking at the works of the minions of Satan trying to lead people into bondage.

This forum is an open discussion. I am glad to see that you are working our your faith. Good luck and God bless. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I already told you that your psychobabble is worthless.
I am going in the opposite direction from you.
I started out where you are now and have broken free from the Bronze Age concept of a tribal god.
I told you that when you first posted on this sub-forum.

ETA: I keep hearing this bit about pride and you are a long ways off in your analysis.
It is righteous indignation as I am looking at the works of the minions of Satan trying to lead people into bondage.

edit on 4-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)