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How does one get "saved" according to christianity?

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posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 06:22 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 




He was talking about the Old Testament law, so what Jesus said was true at that time but now we are under a new administration and that part about worshiping and loving God as a law has been omitted.


First of all, God and Jesus are one. Second, the law was the guardian of man to point out his inability to exist apart from God. Jesus pointed to God and not to himself. When the Bible says not to take the name of the Lord in vain, it is stay not to take on the character of God in vain. Love your neighbor as yourself is the whole of the law. If you love others, there are not laws necessary. This was the point of the law as our guardian. We were under the law to point to love. When we place ourselves 'in' the name of Jesus, we are placing ourselves in the character of love for others. God is one of the others. There is no distinction between God and Jesus. They are one with the Holy Spirit (Consciousness). There are many verses you can look up to verify what I am saying here. The main verses are in Luke 10. Man has never been justified to God by anything but faith. Hebrews 11 shows this clearly. Faith in God is faith in Jesus. The God of the OT is the God of the NT.

Galatians 3
23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

In the NT and the OT, we are called the 'People' of God.

Revelation 14:12
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

Jesus is the 'Ruler' of God's creation.

Revelation 3:14
[ To the Church in Laodicea ] “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.

Are you born of Jesus or God?

1 John 5:4
for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:1
[ Faith in the Incarnate Son of God ] Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.

Who should we commit ourselves to?

1 Peter 4:19
So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

The Word (Son / Logos) created reality. God and the Son and the Holy Spirit are one.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Here is an article I wrote that describes one way of viewing the Trinity. There are many aspects, but this view is accurate to the physics that created reality. LINK


edit on 3-9-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 06:33 AM
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Hilarious. If you can't read your Bible correctly don't expect to be treated seriously. Mind you, this is a humour site.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 06:35 AM
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First of all, good job SuperiorEd, you know your Bible (its about time someone does)
Second, no OP, I will not post nor do your homework for you. I told you to stay out of Matthew if you were looking for Christian doctrine....its not there.

Read Paul if you want to know how Christians are saved, and how they are suppose to be saved. You will go to hell quicker than Judas if all you read are the Gospels...(well, maybe not John)

Read you Bible on your own (KJV of course) and find the different judgments. There are many of them:
The Great White Throne Judgment (for unsaved)
Judgment seat of Christ (for saved)
Judgment of Nations (goats and sheep)
Judgment of Angels (Gen 6, Isa 14, Ezk 28, Jude)
others as well....

At the time Jesus was talking if was the law that saved a man, or in other words WORKS. Not after he died though and rose again, now it is merciful grace through pure faith.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by newcovenant
 



It is a very small prayer. A few lines. I can't remember them but basically it is a really short acceptance of the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he died to atone for your sins. It takes about 15 second.


How is believing that Jesus died to atone for my sins going to help, when Matthew 25 teaches that the saved are ones who were good to their fellow man?


I don't know but it is part of the teaching of my King James Bible. It is right at the beginning and this supposedly "saves" you. I have beaten this point home and the same answer comes back. "Works" will not guarantee you make it to heaven. You cannot be saved only by actions of goodness to your fellow man, although I cannot see how these won't help. It is more important what you think. What I have decided is that the entire Christian Faith message is a contract. When you say that little prayer you accept to be bound by the contract. You are accepting law and love of God by accepting this person Christ as a messenger between you and God. You cannot deal directly with God apparently (though I think there certainly are exceptions and this does not mean He does not pay attention, listen and answer prayers) but it appears for all practical purposes, God has given Christ power of attorney.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


When asked by his disciples on various occasions, Jesus gave different answers. I have studied the scriptures for a very long time. It depends too, on where in the scripture you are reading. Some scriptures clearly state that God does the choosing of who is "saved" and who isn't. Scripture also states that God WILLS that all mankind will be saved. If God wills it, then, it is safe to say, it will happen.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Never in scripture is God referred to or called a "trinity". God is not a person, He is a spirit and is never called a "person" in the scriptures. Where in scripture is the Holy Spirit called "God"? If Jesus is the son, he can't be the Father also. Jesus said: "My Father is greater than I"........John 14:28


edit on 3-9-2011 by aero56 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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This thread and the OP epitomizes the very reason why each of us should do our own research and discover salvation through the direction of the Holy Sprit.

Never listen to anyone who is so arrogant to tell you what a bible verse means. Bibles are very easy to obtain and you can read it for yourself and make your own decision.

Read Matthew for yourself, you may discover that the verse that is the focus of the OP is NOT referring to those “Saved by Faith” , but those who are not.

Christianity espouses two forms of salvation. First, the very focus of Christianity, “Salvation by Grace”, or put another way “Salvation by Faith”, but Christianity also has a second salvation as well. “Salvation through Works”, and this is what the Bible verse in the OP is referring too, but don’t take my word on it read it for yourself and make up your own mind.

I will say that Christian teaching is that you should NOT rely on “Salvation through Works”, because who’s righteousness exceeds that of a Pharisee. How do you have assurance that you are saved if you are depending on your works, when by Faith alone you are assured of Grace.

Each of us are in direct communication with the Sprit, some have awakened to the connection others have not, but we ALL are connected. Some have exercised this connection and have developed abilities , while others have allowed this connection to go under developed.

If I can be so bold to offer just a bit of advise to you let it be this.

Never depend on what another Human tries to “teach” you about YOUR relationship with the Creator.

You are and always have been and never will not be connect directly to the Creator’s Sprit. It is not possible for that connection to ever be disconnected.

You are a unique creation, there has never been, nor will there ever be another YOU.


Start Living

Start Loving

Become who you are meant to be.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Never in scripture is God referred to or called a "trinity". God is not a person, He is a spirit and is never called a "person" in the scriptures. Where in scripture is the Holy Spirit called "God"? If Jesus is the son, he can't be the Father also. Jesus said: "My Father is greater than I"........John 14:28


edit on 3-9-2011 by aero56 because: (no reason given)


The trinity is referenced in scripture by understanding the significance of the three aspects of God that make up every living creature. These three aspects (persons) are referred to in the Bible as persons, unique to their purpose. God is one, but three to us. We are one, but made from the three aspects of God.

Father (God / Light / Prima Materia)

Son (Word / Wave / Force / Laws)

Holy Spirit (Consciousness).

In physics, a wave is what brings light to form. Light is both a particle and a wave. All particles have an associated wave. Reality was spoken into existence by the Word (Jesus / Logos). The Word is the wave that creates reality from light.

Genesis 1:
26 Then God said, “Let

US

make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

If you view God from his projection into reality, these three are responsible for all of us. God is one, yet projects the image of our reality. We are one, but made up of the three. Each person on the earth is one person made up of particle and wave, then animated by consciousness. We are also three in one person. Before Christ, we were only a spirit form God. When we are 'in' Christ's image, we are transformed by the renewing of the Holy Spirit. "You must be born again." This is the process of union. We were born of sperm and egg into the womb of the earth. The body has a soul and a spirit. The spirit works on the soul to gain union when the two find love. The spirit is from God. We gain union with God in the womb of the earth. John 3 explains this.

After we gain union with the spirit of God, our new person is born again into the Holy Spirit of God. This is the work of the flaming sword spoken of in Genesis 3. It protects the tree of life from pride. When the consuming fire of God does its work, our soul is refined and brought to God through the image (likeness / Character / name) of Christ. The name is taking on the character of Jesus and being Christ-like.

The image we are 'in' is reality. We are also in God's image of the three parts (persons) of God. This unifies the paradox of modalism. The trinity is not mentioned by name in the Bible, but the symbolism for the trinity is found in the three persons of God mentioned predominately in all of scripture. Physics is one aspect. There are many others. Each of the persons has a task to accomplish by bringing the light of God to the perspective of men over time. We are temporal and God is infinity at rest.

Genesis 1:27

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


edit on 3-9-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-9-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by brokedown
 

I will say that Christian teaching is that you should NOT rely on “Salvation through Works”, because who’s righteousness exceeds that of a Pharisee.
"Works" in the New Testament means things according to the Law of Moses, such as having borders. That was a law in the Old Testament that had to do with how you made your clothes and originally, you would leave the end of the weaving just hanging there, on the bottom edge of your garment, as opposed to hemming it up. The same sort of principle applies to the practice of gleaming, to where you would not reap every bit of your crop, but just the main central area, leaving the bits around the edge of the field still standing. The Lord owned that bit, but poor people could come and harvest what could be salvaged.
The Pharisees decided to make a show of their complying with the Law by having long tassels on their garments.
That's what was meant by "works".
The problem, as I see it, is that a lot of people confuse being good, with works.
They are not the same thing.
Faith is a gift of God, and so the "grace" which is the Spirit that guides us into righteousness.
We have the ability to receive gifts from God on account of the righteousness of Jesus, who sits with God in Heaven and serves as our representative, and so we receive things that we are not worthy of so much on our own account.
So, by Christ's righteousness, we have grace, which is the gift of the Holy Spirit which we are given despite not being holy ourselves, to have faith, the guiding influence, to live good lives, and to so be saved.

ETA: the idea may have been that people would not like their clothes too much once they had them for a while. Then they would get new clothes and give their old ones away to people too poor to buy clothes themselves.
edit on 3-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

First of all, God and Jesus are one.

Only in your own mind where you try to rationalize being a Jew and being Christian at the same time, thus being a heretic to both camps.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 

Read you Bible on your own (KJV of course) and find the different judgments. There are many of them:
That is, if you ignore all the verses that say everyone goes to the same judgement.
This is just the (KJV Bible only) cult's way of rationalizing how you, personally, will not ever go to a judgement where your fate may be in question.
(thus being able to disregard all the biblical admonitions to live righteously)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I appreciate your belief, however, there is but ONE God, no others. God and the Holy Spirit are never referred to as "persons" in God's word.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

First of all, God and Jesus are one.

Only in your own mind where you try to rationalize being a Jew and being Christian at the same time, thus being a heretic to both camps.


Do you have a Bible? Ephesians 3

4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

Do you have a Bible?
Anyone on this forum has access to at least twenty different versions of the Bible.
So what is your point?
Paul talked about the Jews being cut off.
Obviously there was a need for a change with the Jews, to get on board to the new revelation of God, the one that replaces the one at Sinai.
So by not following Jesus, they were not following God, Jesus being the best revelation of the nature of God.
How do you figure there is anything worthwhile in making Jesus conform to that old angel of the desert, the one of desolation and death?
edit on 3-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I appreciate your belief, however, there is but ONE God, no others. God and the Holy Spirit are never referred to as "persons" in God's word.


The Trinity is considered an a-logical concept. This means it is without logic and cannot be fully described by man. I can only hint at the Trinity from physics. Like I said earlier, this is only one aspect we can view from science. Since science is a poor description of God's creation, we are left with an a-logical definition of God. We can't make God subject to the reasoning of man. The best we can do is allow the scriptures to point to a comparison we can see in nature. Nature, fundamentally, is the image of God. Understanding the infinite God of creation requires infinite depth and understanding. We do not possess this.

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

“you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children” (Luke 10:21).4

For me, the verse above describes how pride blinds. This is true for unbelief, but it is also true for theology. If we hold a theology as our own, then we are blinded by pride. We must sit back and allow the Holy Spirit of God to reveal truth to us personally. We are to be a children, unaffected by the world's wisdom and open to the leading and prompting of the Holy Spirit of God.

“For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know fully just as I also have been fully known” (1 Cor. 13:12).

You are confusing what I am saying with tri-theism and modalism. I am not saying this at all. Jesus was a Son of men, but he was also the Son of God on earth. He possessed the Holy Spirit of God and was God on the other side of the dimly lit image that Paul describes. This is a-logical to our minds but so is the existence of a pre-existent consciousness. We can only take what we know and call it what it seems to be. The Trinity is a logical way to describe what cannot be described by logic. We are both right, which is the point of finding the excluded middle to a paradox.

Like I said before, theology will blind you. A-logic is all you can claim with infinity.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

Do you have a Bible?
Anyone on this forum has access to at least twenty different versions of the Bible.
So what is your point?
Paul talked about the Jews being cut off.
Obviously there was a need for a change with the Jews, to get on board to the new revelation of God, the one that replaces the one at Sinai.
So by not following Jesus, they were not following God, Jesus being the best revelation of the nature of God.
How do you figure there is anything worthwhile in making Jesus conform to that old angel of the desert, the one of desolation and death?
edit on 3-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


You are showing bias against God in the OT without realizing that the God of the OT is has never changed. Bias blinds and is a symptom of pride. We all have this pride. If God in the OT is examined by His own words and actions as viewed by the Matthew Henry Commentaries, we can see that there is a plan and mystery in place from Genesis 1 to the end of Revelation. There is no change of plans for anyone in this reality. It was all done as a part of an overall plan.

Israel is not lost.

Romans 11
1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

There is no change of plans for anyone in this reality.

So why do you post on this forum?
You need to stop if this is your philosophy.
And why have you changed so much?
I find your explanation contradictory.
Whatever your rationalization is, it only seems to work inside your own mind.
You just ignore all the verses in the NT that don't fit your scheme and pick a few out that you can spin to fit.
You should just give up the pretense of your claim to Christianity, in my opinion.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

There is no change of plans for anyone in this reality.

So why do you post on this forum?
You need to stop if this is your philosophy.
And why have you changed so much?
I find your explanation contradictory.
Whatever your rationalization is, it only seems to work inside your own mind.
You just ignore all the verses in the NT that don't fit your scheme and pick a few out that you can spin to fit.
You should just give up the pretense of your claim to Christianity, in my opinion.


You seemed to suggest that the OT God is not the NT God and that God somehow changed his plans. I think the Bible is quite clear that man is saved by faith in God and this is then evidenced by the love that is the fruit of taking on the name of Jesus. Both the OT and NT support this way of salvation. You say above that I ignore some NT verses and spin others. Please do quote the verses I ignore and those you say I spin. Simply saying that I do provides no context of your own except bias against me and the Bible. The context of the verses I have used are in keeping with commonly held theology and the commentaries of Matthew Henry. God is the same today and tomorrow and yesterday.


edit on 3-9-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 
Twist twist twist twist twist.

Seems you calculate every word to turn a certain direction.
People are not saved by loving God.
That has nothing to do with it.
You probably imagine you know God by looking at the Sinai manifestations.
So you are stuck in this world and that is the god of your world and you will go down with this world.
The real God is the one no one has seen and is spirit and you do not know.
God is revealed to us today through His son and is how we know about God.
I am sure that if the NT supported your view, you would be quoting a few verses from it but it doesn't.
The NT talks about an administration of a covenant.
A covenant of angels.
It never makes claims about God's involvement.
If I am wrong about that, then be sure to point out my error but all you have is a philosophy of ignoring the spiritual and clinging to the physical so your life will cease to exist when your physical body ceases to exist.
You do not offer salvation but only slavery.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



I told you to stay out of Matthew if you were looking for Christian doctrine....its not there.

Read Paul if you want to know how Christians are saved, and how they are suppose to be saved. You will go to hell quicker than Judas if all you read are the Gospels


Im pretty sure you and i have been over this, but for the sake of arguement i'll ask...

What exactly is wrong with matthew?

You being a priest i would assume that would be one of your favorite books, though again being a "fire and brimstone" preacher as you claim, its obvious why you don't like matthew... It goes against your preaching style so...

Please enlighten us... so i can debunk your preaching yet again.




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