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How does one get "saved" according to christianity?

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posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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The Christian teaching on being saved is that one needs to accept Jesus' sacrifice on the cross as atonement for sins.
This in itself is linked to other christian doctrines such as that of "original sin" (people are sinners by default, because of Adams & Eves sin in the garden of Eden) and the requirement of the sacrifice of an "unblemished lamb" for forgiveness of sins (whose role Jesus supposedly played during his crucifixion).

The main question
However, can a person really be saved by merely accepting that Jesus died for the sins of the world? Does the bible teach otherwise?

Regardless of whats being taught in churches, lets see what the bible itself has to say on this matter.

I will be using Matthew 25:31-46 as the basis of my thread.
This particular part of the bible is extremely crucial to understanding the criteria for salvation as it is the only part of the bible which explains the events of judgement day.

Lets start...

Matthew 25:31-46.

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Commentary : Here we see that the saved and unsaved are being seperated from all the nations. Based on their reward/punishment, they are symbolized as sheep and goats respectively. On what basis is this distinction made? Lets read further...


"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'


Commentary : Here we see that the sheep are selected basis their deeds towards others (feeding, clothing, caring etc). These people are being rewarded because of good deeds towards other people and NOT simply because they accepted Jesus' sacrifice as atonement for their sins.
Nothing is mentioned about Jesus' supposed sacrifice... or the need for it to cleanse man of sin.... or anything about christian doctrines such as original sin, atonement through sacrifice, etc.



"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


Commentary : As with the sheep, the goats also were selected basis their deeds towards their fellow humans and NOT because they did not accept Jesus' sacrifice as 'atonement for their sins'. These people are being punished because of their unkind attitude towards other people and nothing else.



Conclusion :
The basis of judgement, according to Matthew 25:31-46, seems to simply be on how a person treats his fellow man. Please note that, there is NO mention of Jesus dying for peoples sins and people being forgiven by accepting Jesus' death on the cross ...in spite of it being the only requirement for salvation according to christian doctrine.

The righteous were not told they were saved because they accepted the sacrifice of Jesus.
And likewise, the unrighteous were not told they were damned because they did not accept the sacrifice of Jesus. Bear in mind, this is an account of what will happen on the day of judgement (the future), which means it comes much, much AFTER the doctrine of atonement was established.

These verses pertaining to judgement do not repeat typical christian doctrine involving Jesus' supposed sacrifice... or the need for it to cleanse man of sin.... or anything about christian doctrines such as original sin, atonement through sacrifice, etc.

Jesus here is seen playing the role of a judge who rewards/punishes people by their deeds. Jesus does not reward/punish people for accepting or rejecting the so-called sin sacrifice, that would have cleansed people of their sins, thereby 'saving' them and getting them into heaven.



IMPLICATIONS FOR CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES SUCH AS 'ORIGINAL SIN' AND 'SALVATION THROUGH JESUS' SACRIFICE

If one considers the bible innerant, then the events of Matthew Matthew 25:31-46 regarding the conditions for salvation are to be taken seriously. For reasons explained above, the implications are tremendous for christian doctrines such as "original sin" and the requirement of accepting Jesus' sacrifice for sin of all mankind.





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edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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Does accepting the bible/jesus are a fraud/hoax count?? Will i be saved given my opinion on the matter??

Saved from what? Hell?

Sorry....i dont buy the whole religion thing, it makes little to no sense to me.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by loves a conspiricy
 


My point was that christianity seems to be teaching that good deeds towards fellow humans will be rewarded.
Or did you not feel like reading the OP.
edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by loves a conspiricy
 


My point was that christianity seems to be teaching that good deeds towards fellow humans will be rewarded.
Or did you not feel like reading the OP.
edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


I read parts, i didnt read the bible quotes


Good deeds towards fellow humans is rewarded...but here and now.
Right and wrong, good and bad, all effect how you live your life now...so why worry about what happens after?
Im a good person, i know the difference between right and wrong....im generally good as i want to have a pleasant existence.

Its kinda obvious if you are bad you wont be rewarded for it. So if the bible is true....then i would assume being good would be a big part of getting past those pearly gates



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Well if you hold that the Bible is inerrant, then what you're referring to is the "sheep and goat judgment" that takes place after the Tribulation. Jesus is addressing those that have come through the Tribulation, namely, the Jewish people. Prior to the Tribulation, Christ's church is removed from the earth (what most people refer to as the "rapture"). That will officially end God's dispensation with the Gentiles, or the "church age". The Tribulation is Daniel's 70th week, a resumption of God's dispensation with the Jews. 69 of those "weeks" (each week is a period of 7 years) took place up to Christ's crucifixion, but the dispensation went on hold at the crucifixion and God opened the doors to salvation of Gentiles (this is described in Matthew 22). When the church is removed and God's dispensation with the Jews resumes, it is a return to OT ways and has nothing to do with God's current dispensation with the Gentiles, you're getting the two dispensations mixed up, they are quite different. Salvation for the Gentiles is via grace through faith:


Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God


Salvation for the Jews that deny Christ will be measured against them via the Mosaic Law as outlined in the OP.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by loves a conspiricy
 





I read parts, i didnt read the bible quotes


Thats where lies the heart of the matter.


The part about judgement stresses on moral acts. While it may seem like a fairytale to you, the most crucial part of the bible pertaining to judgement, stresses on moral acts to fellow humans.
I read somewhere that one can neither diminish nor add to the glory of the Creator of this universe.

Perhaps all thats really required of us ... to do good to our fellow humans. - to feed the hungry.... to donate to the poor.... at the very least... to throw down some spare change to the one who begs you for some????


Or is that below an atheists dignity?

edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by SavedOne
 



Well if you hold that the Bible is inerrant, then what you're referring to is the "sheep and goat judgment" that takes place after the Tribulation. Jesus is addressing those that have come through the Tribulation, namely, the Jewish people


Its not just the jewish people.... that verse says "all nations". ALL NATIONS.
All the nations will be gathered before him

Now, please explain to me... why was it that those who did good were among the saved... in Matthew.


edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


I agree with your interpretation. Furthermore, it seems to me that the logical thing to do would be to treat the words of the (supposedly) son of God as the gospel and discard anything that seems to contradict that as just mortal babbling. So all those verses from Paul about faith-alone and all this other stuff? Baloney. But, then again, context is everything.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


I am not a christian but as my girlfriend is I have had many a discussion of religion with her. She tells me that to be saved means you must believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.

I like your train of thought on this and perhaps I can contribute my two cents for what it's worth.

The thinking might be that if you believe that Jesus died for our sins than you believe in God and the heavens. The thinkning might also be that if you do believe this than you would follow the bible and the laws of the land. The bible teaches among other things to love your brother and to help those in need and not to judge and hurt people.

Therefore if you believe he died for our sins you would undoubtedly follow the teachings of the bible thus you would have given the needy drink when thirsty food when hungry etc.

Just a thought, does that make sense?



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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It's simple really. Martin Luther was the anti-christ. And now most christians have taken up the teaching of him.
You won't be saved if you just believe that Jesus died for your sins. You have to fill yourself with love, or christ, and love everyone.
People need to listen to what Jesus said, and not what the men, or snakes, surrounding them say.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by lZEROl
 


You may have heard that Jesus was the "sin sacrifice", akin to the unblemished lamb of OT era sacrifices.

Problem is... Jesus was supposedly killed according to standard roman execution procedures.... thanks to a certain religious group that wanted him dead.

Thanks to their doctrine, Christians have reduced their own messiah Jesus to a sacrificial animal.... just because they believe his death can save them from the consequenes of their own sins. A free ticket out of trouble.
edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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Romans 10: 9, 10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Ephesians 2:9

Not of works, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD boast.


John 8:24

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.


John 3:16,17

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Luke 23:39-43

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


Romans 8:1

[There is] THEREFORE now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


The judgement you are referring to here has nothing to do with christians, since they will already have been caught up to meet the lord in the air at this time. Whether you are a pre, mid, or post tribulationist matters not at this point. This is a judgement of the nations. And they will be judged according to their deeds. Notice also it is to be distinguished from the white throne judgement. (No books are opened) Which is in contrast to Revelations 20.

ETA: This is just a brief answer, and my two cents from memory. I am no longer a christian, and I have no desire to debate it in depth. I'll let real christians do that. Just thought I'd add some food for thought.
edit on 9/2/2011 by Klassified because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Klassified
 



You say :

The judgement you are referring to here has nothing to do with christians.


The bible says :

All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.


It clearly says "all the nations". Not just a christian thing.


edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Dear sk0rpi0n,

Salvation is fellowship with God. Hell is separation from God. Sin is anything short of perfection and not intentional evil. Salvation comes by having a heart like Jesus and not from knowing his name. If we have a heart that loves others as we love ourselves then we will naturally help one another. We are known by our fruits. Many claim to be "christians" but show no love to others, they are the ones he will turn from and say he never knew them. They focus on his name because they have no love in them.

Jesus summed up the bible by saying, "Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself". In the old Testament it explains that we can see God in everything, in nature. The bible says that there is only one unpardonable sin, that means all others are forgiven. The unpardonable sin is rejecting love, the fruit of which is being self centered. The supermarket that I go to supports many charities, they ask people if they would like to round up their bills giving the pennies to charity, most people say no. I have seen people say no to two cents.

The short answer is that our focus should be on love, that is the truth of Christianity which results in better actions and salvation and that is not limited to people who call themselves christians.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

And I quote:


The judgement you are referring to here has nothing to do with christians, since they will already have been caught up to meet the lord in the air at this time.


This is the second coming. Christians will have already passed from judgement(or death) into life. John 5:24


Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come INTO condemnation; but is PASSED FROM death unto life.


ETA: If you really want some good commentary on your thread, u2u Noturtypical, micmerci, and lionhearte. They are christians, and know their scripture.
edit on 9/2/2011 by Klassified because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


What you were saying was that people will be judged by their actions towards others, and I was only suggesting that by believing that he died for man's sins means you believe the bible and its teachings which would in turn lead you to give drink to the thirsty and food to the hungry etc..

I said nothing about how he was killed or what I may have heard and I'm not sure I fully understand why you replied in the way you did.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 




The short answer is that our focus should be on love, that is the truth of Christianity which results in better actions and salvation and that is not limited to people who call themselves christians.


"The short answer is that our focus should be on love"

Great.
"Love"....
but on whom? The Creator of this universe does not need your "love"
Send your love to the needy....start with the tramp who begs you for your spare change.

edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by lZEROl
 


I never said that I disagreed with what you said earlier.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Dear sk0rpi0n,



Great. "Love".... but on whom? The Creator of this universe does not need your "love" Send your love to the needy....start with the tramp who begs you for your spare change.


Love for one another, for that which is alive. It is not a trade to get a reward, it is how one should really feel and yes, it includes the homeless and those in need, it includes those who have hurt you.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

Excellent! So I can stick to the atheist's wager:


You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in god. If there is no god, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent god, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him.




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