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How does one get "saved" according to christianity?

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posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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Many pagans and other civilisations gone by practiced blood sacrifice.

Many practiced the sacrificing of animals to absolve the sin of the people. Tribes sent animals into the wild to die, they believed this would relieve the "sin" of the people. This is where we get the term "scapegoating" - The offloading of responsibility.

Christianity is different from other sacrificial belief systems, in that they believe the sacrifice of ONE human being can absolve the ENTIRE SPECIES from sin.




posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

That right there says you must believe in Jesus and that he is the savior.

www.sundayschoolresources.com...

You are a false prophet twisting the words to suit your own ends. You MUST believe in Jesus Christ and that he died on the cross for your sins and that he rose on the 3rd day to be redeemed. Just doing good works alone will not get you into heaven. You can do all the good works till youre blue in the face but if you don't accept Jesus you will not have eternal life. You are teaching false doctrine and i rebuke you.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by NeverForget
 

Christianity is different from other sacrificial belief systems, in that they believe the sacrifice of ONE human being can absolve the ENTIRE SPECIES from sin.
The big difference, to me, is that the sacrifice was made by God, not people giving something to God. If we could somehow make some sort of sacrifice that would be sufficient, then God would not have had to intervene. If you read the text, the propitiation for sin was a gift from God.
Mankind did not get together to create the perfect savior. They would have made the perfect warrior to kill everyone who did not submit to a world government. Jesus was given that opportunity by the god of this world but appealed to a higher authority, which was his father in Heaven, who somehow had seemed to have been forgotten in the turf wars.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



The big difference, to me, is that the sacrifice was made by God


And how do you know this? The Romans considered him to be blasphemous, as they people were reporting him to be king of the Jews. It wasn't God who sacrificed Jesus, it was man.

I'm sure, as "GOD" is "all-powerful" that he could have found a better way to teach humanity a lesson or two, rather than have Romans kill his "son".



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


The big difference, to me, is that the sacrifice was made by God

And how do you know this? The Romans considered him to be blasphemous, as they people were reporting him to be king of the Jews. It wasn't God who sacrificed Jesus, it was man.
I'm sure, as "GOD" is "all-powerful" that he could have found a better way to teach humanity a lesson or two, rather than have Romans kill his "son".
These are big issues that could make three threads. Now that does not mean I want to dodge them, just that it would take a while to answer. I could give some short answers to start with and maybe that is all you want, to have something to rebut, not that I mind or anything.
The Bible says so, is how I know.
The Romans did not care about blasphemy, that was the Jews who pushed the Roman authority to kill him as an insurrectionist.
God, I don't believe, cares so much about teaching us a lesson, as much as demonstrating His own righteousness.
Man did not offer Jesus, they wanted the warrior king to get loot and spoil and tribute money. They believed Jesus was preventing the coming of that king by his breaking the Sabbath. Jesus made it known that he was lord over Sabbath, thus the ruler they should have been expecting, but they wanted none of it, so if man made a sacrifice of Jesus, it was to get rid of a perceived sinner. But of course then he would have been unacceptable by God.

edit on 4-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by jmdewey60
 



The big difference, to me, is that the sacrifice was made by God


And how do you know this? The Romans considered him to be blasphemous, as they people were reporting him to be king of the Jews. It wasn't God who sacrificed Jesus, it was man.

I'm sure, as "GOD" is "all-powerful" that he could have found a better way to teach humanity a lesson or two, rather than have Romans kill his "son".


Youre missing the whole reason for redemption. God came to this world in the form of Jesus to save mankind, not teach them a lesson in humility and destroy us all, which he easily could have done. But think on this, if he had destroyed humanity the story wouldnt have ended the way he meant it to and he said so himself. Furthermore it wasnt the Romans who considered Jesus to be blasphemous, the romans didnt give a crap one way or the other. It was the pharisees who considered him blasphemous, and they used the excuse that Jesus was trying to incite rebellion in order to get the romans to execute him.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

That right there says you must believe in Jesus and that he is the savior.

www.sundayschoolresources.com...

You are a false prophet twisting the words to suit your own ends. You MUST believe in Jesus Christ and that he died on the cross for your sins and that he rose on the 3rd day to be redeemed. Just doing good works alone will not get you into heaven. You can do all the good works till youre blue in the face but if you don't accept Jesus you will not have eternal life. You are teaching false doctrine and i rebuke you.


And watch Jesus Call you a liar and a hypocrite...

1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Since you probably won't understand what is said here i'll assist you in your comprehension.

Your works will be judged according to how they are done.

Turn your back on the least of Gods creatures and he will turn his back on you.

This is why we do not judge others as you love to do.... but again teach your lies to others.

You're free to do so...




posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 
We are all going to be judged by our life so people should concern themselves with the life they are living, more than telling someone else how they are living. It is a different story when it comes to being a prophet and going against what Jesus taught. Then it is good to be critical, when the subject is a teaching.

The verse in John 3 needs to be taken in context, which is Jesus was talking to Nicodemus who represented the remnant of Israel, and they needed to accept Jesus to remain a nation. It should not be applied to everyone because we are not them, and don't care about being a master race or somehow ruling the earth.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon
 
We are all going to be judged by our life so people should concern themselves with the life they are living, more than telling someone else how they are living. It is a different story when it comes to being a prophet and going against what Jesus taught. Then it is good to be critical, when the subject is a teaching.

The verse in John 3 needs to be taken in context, which is Jesus was talking to Nicodemus who represented the remnant of Israel, and they needed to accept Jesus to remain a nation. It should not be applied to everyone because we are not them, and don't care about being a master race or somehow ruling the earth.





Tell that to him...

Believing that just believing will get you into some mythical "heaven" is nonsence...

Everyone is judged by their actions in their life. For example, say someone is a "hardcore Christian" and believes completely in that methodology. Basically they believe completely in God... That same person turns his back on the homeless regularly thus putting that homeless person beneath him. He decides one day while walking through a store that he wants something he can't afford so he takes it. This person also regularly condems people to hell because others don't believe what he does. But of course he is still a Good person because he "believes" and is "saved" so he will still get into heaven... because by Gods "grace" he was saved and he needed to do nothing more then believe.

This isn't logical, but it is the way many people work.

It takes more then just believing... one must show his belief through his actions in his life.




posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote to NeverForget:

["Youre missing the whole reason for redemption. God came to this world in the form of Jesus to save mankind, not teach them a lesson in humility and destroy us all, which he easily could have done. But think on this, if he had destroyed humanity the story wouldnt have ended the way he meant it to and he said so himself. Furthermore it wasnt the Romans who considered Jesus to be blasphemous, the romans didnt give a crap one way or the other. It was the pharisees who considered him blasphemous, and they used the excuse that Jesus was trying to incite rebellion in order to get the romans to execute him."]

I'm afraid, that what's really is missing here is the alleged reason for redemption..... the mythological story of 'original sin'. Probably the most absurd mythological postulate I've ever met.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 

Tell that to him...

Right.
Most of that would apply to Lonewolf.
I generally agree with you as for what is necessary for salvation.
Jesus as quoted earlier, was to do with the continued existence of Judea.
What people need to be saved is following the spirit that Jesus gives to the world.
We can reject that guidance and not live right, then no amount of calling on names will help.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote to NeverForget:

["Youre missing the whole reason for redemption. God came to this world in the form of Jesus to save mankind, not teach them a lesson in humility and destroy us all, which he easily could have done. But think on this, if he had destroyed humanity the story wouldnt have ended the way he meant it to and he said so himself. Furthermore it wasnt the Romans who considered Jesus to be blasphemous, the romans didnt give a crap one way or the other. It was the pharisees who considered him blasphemous, and they used the excuse that Jesus was trying to incite rebellion in order to get the romans to execute him."]

I'm afraid, that what's really is missing here is the alleged reason for redemption..... the mythological story of 'original sin'. Probably the most absurd mythological postulate I've ever met.




Oh come on now...

We've encountered much more absurdity on our ventures here....

What of the apple of knowledge...

The "infallibility" of the bible?

The so called "prophecies" of revelations?

I have a little respect for the idea of original sin.... though not how Christians see it. If we've all lived before this existance, Original sin is your own accumulated Karma... Thus we are born into what we've done in the past.

Not so absurd honestly from my perspective, though its true.... Original sin because of the actions of Adam? Ya that is a little silly...




posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote to NeverForget:

["Youre missing the whole reason for redemption. God came to this world in the form of Jesus to save mankind, not teach them a lesson in humility and destroy us all, which he easily could have done. But think on this, if he had destroyed humanity the story wouldnt have ended the way he meant it to and he said so himself. Furthermore it wasnt the Romans who considered Jesus to be blasphemous, the romans didnt give a crap one way or the other. It was the pharisees who considered him blasphemous, and they used the excuse that Jesus was trying to incite rebellion in order to get the romans to execute him."]

I'm afraid, that what's really is missing here is the alleged reason for redemption..... the mythological story of 'original sin'. Probably the most absurd mythological postulate I've ever met.




Oh come on now...

We've encountered much more absurdity on our ventures here....

What of the apple of knowledge...

The "infallibility" of the bible?

The so called "prophecies" of revelations?

I have a little respect for the idea of original sin.... though not how Christians see it. If we've all lived before this existance, Original sin is your own accumulated Karma... Thus we are born into what we've done in the past.

Not so absurd honestly from my perspective, though its true.... Original sin because of the actions of Adam? Ya that is a little silly...



It's not really an issue with me, as I see the 'worse' examples you mention as facets of a package deal.

Without being a 'believer' myself, I can at least see the sense in the karma concept, as anything in cosmos, running on cosmic laws, will be subject to causality to the extent of what cosmic laws 'rule'.

'The freedom from cosmic laws' being THE point, where western and eastern religions go separate ways.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon
 
We are all going to be judged by our life so people should concern themselves with the life they are living, more than telling someone else how they are living. It is a different story when it comes to being a prophet and going against what Jesus taught. Then it is good to be critical, when the subject is a teaching.

The verse in John 3 needs to be taken in context, which is Jesus was talking to Nicodemus who represented the remnant of Israel, and they needed to accept Jesus to remain a nation. It should not be applied to everyone because we are not them, and don't care about being a master race or somehow ruling the earth.





Tell that to him...

Believing that just believing will get you into some mythical "heaven" is nonsence...

Everyone is judged by their actions in their life. For example, say someone is a "hardcore Christian" and believes completely in that methodology. Basically they believe completely in God... That same person turns his back on the homeless regularly thus putting that homeless person beneath him. He decides one day while walking through a store that he wants something he can't afford so he takes it. This person also regularly condems people to hell because others don't believe what he does. But of course he is still a Good person because he "believes" and is "saved" so he will still get into heaven... because by Gods "grace" he was saved and he needed to do nothing more then believe.

This isn't logical, but it is the way many people work.

It takes more then just believing... one must show his belief through his actions in his life.



You arent even bothering to read what i wrote. Instead you postulate your own ideas and call me a hypocrit. I walk the walk Jesus taught. I use my own money to buy poor people food that have a hard time feeding themselves. I go out of my way to help people and step outside of my comfort zone. Right now i am even working with Burlington Coat Factory to provide winter coats and clothing to needy children and people who cannot afford them. What have you done for Christ? Who have you helped for him?

The only requirement to have eternal life is to believe in Jesus Christ and that he died for your sins and rose on the 3rd day. He also wants you to keep his commandments, and walk the path he walked. To love your enemies as you love your friends, to give up your world possesions and feed the poor, and minister to the sick, to see those imprisoned and give them hope.

Just doing righteous works is not enough. Paul said that a righteous man's works are as a filthy rag before the Lord. And yes If you teach lies and false doctrine i will call you out for what you are, a false prophet and a liar, this is not judging, this is called rebuking and this must be done to teach those who would lead others astray the right way. I will not allow Satan to spread his lies in my presence. Jesus said "I AM, the truth the life and the way, no one comes to the father but through me". He meant that not only do you have to believe in him but you must do good works in his name. I don't have to judge you, the Lord has already done that the moment you began your lies. Jesus said "him who is not for me, is against me and he is anti-christ". By his own words are you convicted, you would know that if you actually took the time to read the Word instead of looking up online sources for your own ends.
edit on 4-9-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

The only requirement to have eternal life is to believe in Jesus Christ and that he died for your sins and rose on the 3rd day.
There is a verse that says part of that, in 1 Corinthians 15: 3 & 4.
The prophecy this is referring to is Isaiah 53 of the suffering servant and it is about someone counted among the outcast being taken in to share the wealth of the king. It is not about Jesus paying your sin debt.
Paul goes on to say, "And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is useless; you are still in your sins."
Notice he does not say, "If Jesus did not die. . .", it is the being raised up and given the wealth, that saves us. We have Jesus who was killed as a sinner by the Sanhedrin, who God nullifies that imputation of sinner, to be our representative to be sharers ourselves in the good things of God.
Paul concludes this bit of a speech by saying, "So stop sinning!" The implication being that having this future hope of a resurrection should motivate us to prepare ourselves to be fit to join that resurrection.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote to Akragon:

["You arent even bothering to read what i wrote."]

And later:

["The only requirement to have eternal life is to believe in Jesus Christ and that he died for your sins and rose on the 3rd day."]

How many times have you posted this mythological claim? Hundreds probably. And with the risk of being impolite (but I'm only using youir own words), you wonder why people don't 'bother' to read your posts.

I'm QUITE sure, that practically everybody are aware by now, that you want to promote orginal sin and redemption.

Quote: ["Just doing righteous works is not enough."]

The faith-importance is also clearly stated, and supported by faith in faith.

Please don't underestimate the reading skills of those reading your posts.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote to NeverForget:

["Youre missing the whole reason for redemption. God came to this world in the form of Jesus to save mankind, not teach them a lesson in humility and destroy us all, which he easily could have done. But think on this, if he had destroyed humanity the story wouldnt have ended the way he meant it to and he said so himself. Furthermore it wasnt the Romans who considered Jesus to be blasphemous, the romans didnt give a crap one way or the other. It was the pharisees who considered him blasphemous, and they used the excuse that Jesus was trying to incite rebellion in order to get the romans to execute him."]

I'm afraid, that what's really is missing here is the alleged reason for redemption..... the mythological story of 'original sin'. Probably the most absurd mythological postulate I've ever met.





I believe that we are sinners from birth but there is still an innocence while we are in our infancy due to a lack of knowledge. At some point in our childhood we become quite rebellious in our thinking. The knowledge of good and evil begins to manifest itself.


GE 8:21b "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.


JER 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon
 
We are all going to be judged by our life so people should concern themselves with the life they are living, more than telling someone else how they are living. It is a different story when it comes to being a prophet and going against what Jesus taught. Then it is good to be critical, when the subject is a teaching.

The verse in John 3 needs to be taken in context, which is Jesus was talking to Nicodemus who represented the remnant of Israel, and they needed to accept Jesus to remain a nation. It should not be applied to everyone because we are not them, and don't care about being a master race or somehow ruling the earth.





Tell that to him...

Believing that just believing will get you into some mythical "heaven" is nonsence...

Everyone is judged by their actions in their life. For example, say someone is a "hardcore Christian" and believes completely in that methodology. Basically they believe completely in God... That same person turns his back on the homeless regularly thus putting that homeless person beneath him. He decides one day while walking through a store that he wants something he can't afford so he takes it. This person also regularly condems people to hell because others don't believe what he does. But of course he is still a Good person because he "believes" and is "saved" so he will still get into heaven... because by Gods "grace" he was saved and he needed to do nothing more then believe.

This isn't logical, but it is the way many people work.

It takes more then just believing... one must show his belief through his actions in his life.



You arent even bothering to read what i wrote. Instead you postulate your own ideas and call me a hypocrit. I walk the walk Jesus taught. I use my own money to buy poor people food that have a hard time feeding themselves. I go out of my way to help people and step outside of my comfort zone. Right now i am even working with Burlington Coat Factory to provide winter coats and clothing to needy children and people who cannot afford them. What have you done for Christ? Who have you helped for him?

The only requirement to have eternal life is to believe in Jesus Christ and that he died for your sins and rose on the 3rd day. He also wants you to keep his commandments, and walk the path he walked. To love your enemies as you love your friends, to give up your world possesions and feed the poor, and minister to the sick, to see those imprisoned and give them hope.

Just doing righteous works is not enough. Paul said that a righteous man's works are as a filthy rag before the Lord. And yes If you teach lies and false doctrine i will call you out for what you are, a false prophet and a liar, this is not judging, this is called rebuking and this must be done to teach those who would lead others astray the right way. I will not allow Satan to spread his lies in my presence. Jesus said "I AM, the truth the life and the way, no one comes to the father but through me". He meant that not only do you have to believe in him but you must do good works in his name. I don't have to judge you, the Lord has already done that the moment you began your lies. Jesus said "him who is not for me, is against me and he is anti-christ". By his own words are you convicted, you would know that if you actually took the time to read the Word instead of looking up online sources for your own ends.
edit on 4-9-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)


Again, don't assume you know me.... You clearly do not understand his words or you would not judge others as you do on these forums. Your lies are quite clear, on the other hand i have nothing to prove and no reason to lie. You say Jesus claimed to be God many times... That is a blatant lie... and you know it is. Though you love to read into what he said and twist his words to suit your own interpretation. Feel free to do so, i couldn't care less. Yes he said "I am the true the life and the way". Just because you make that statement doesn't mean you understand it. By his words YOU are convicted not me. I AM not christian so your silly statements have no bareing on my life. ...Rebuke me all you want... Your posts show your lack of understanding, so your rebuking means about as much as a burp from the cookie monster. Yes its great you do all those things... but who are you to compare yourself to me with your holier then thou attitude. I do something a little more important to those that are in need then working at a coat factory.


BTW.. Paul said alot of things, i don't base my life on paul's teachings as you do. Yet another statement that means nothing.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You wrote to Akragon:

["You arent even bothering to read what i wrote."]

And later:

["The only requirement to have eternal life is to believe in Jesus Christ and that he died for your sins and rose on the 3rd day."]

How many times have you posted this mythological claim? Hundreds probably. And with the risk of being impolite (but I'm only using youir own words), you wonder why people don't 'bother' to read your posts.

I'm QUITE sure, that practically everybody are aware by now, that you want to promote orginal sin and redemption.

Quote: ["Just doing righteous works is not enough."]

The faith-importance is also clearly stated, and supported by faith in faith.

Please don't underestimate the reading skills of those reading your posts.






His posts are never his own thoughts anyways... he posts paragraph after paragraph of scripture which rarely has anything to do with the topic. And other ideas obviously come from various christian websites... or his church.

Honestly can you expect anything less from one that makes sooo many assumptions about everyone and everything?




posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

Paul said that a righteous man's works are as a filthy rag before the Lord.
That was actually Isaiah. That was back when Israel was being drug off by the Assyrians, so apparently they were not righteous, according to their way of thinking back then, where they attributed calamity to being deserved because of being bad somehow.
If you can find a comparable verse in the New Testament, you may want to quote that.

edit on 4-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



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