How does one get "saved" according to christianity?, page 9

posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 09:01 AM

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reply to post by sk0rpi0n

And just who decided that Christian doctrine is not present in Matthew? Is it just your opinion , or is it a view shared by other KJV readers?

What I like to point out is that there is a cult represented by several members on this forum with identical doctrines. So once you understand the view of one of them, then you understand the view of all of them.
They explain away Jesus' description of judgement by pulling out their trump card which is "we interpret scripture literally" (of course only when it suites them). Where the KJV says "nations" they say it is literally nations, while ignoring how the same word is translated elsewhere. See, they believe that God especially blessed the KJV so as to make it superior to what the Apostles themselves wrote. So if the KJ says, nations, then nations it is!

edit on 5-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

sk0rpi0n

posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 10:35 PM

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reply to post by XplanetX

It is not just about accepting Jesus sacrifice for salvation, it is much more than that. Although accepting his sacrifice as an atonement for sin is certainly a part of it. You are missing the forest for the trees. I agree that salvation is not easy and there are very few who find it.

Actually, the christian idea of salvation ... by merely accepting that Jesus died for their sins is, by far.... the EASIEST way for salvation compared to any other religon. It does not require you to do any good, because you believe that a mans righteousness is worthless to God. (reference to the Isaiah quote).

If we try to please God through our own effort then we will fail dismally. This is the trap that the Teachers of the Law could not break out of. They honoured God with their lips while their hearts were far from him.

Not everybody in Biblical times were those who "honoured God with their lips while their hearts were far from him".

The bible teaches....
the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

A clear distiniction is made between righteous and wickedness.

There are several verses in the Bible, both OT and NT where God was pleased with certain people... (I can quote them for you, if you want me to.)

So what christianity teaches regarding original sin and therefore the need for Jesus sacrifice has no biblical basis.

kevin32

posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 11:53 PM

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Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by jmdewey60

The big difference, to me, is that the sacrifice was made by God

And how do you know this? The Romans considered him to be blasphemous, as they people were reporting him to be king of the Jews. It wasn't God who sacrificed Jesus, it was man.

I'm sure, as "GOD" is "all-powerful" that he could have found a better way to teach humanity a lesson or two, rather than have Romans kill his "son".

If this is all true then there must have been a reason why God chose it this way

KJV1611

posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 10:11 PM

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you guys get this figured out yet? Don't tell me you are still looking for people being judged for accepting or rejecting Chirst in Matthew? Cause it is not there, just as scorpion says......there are NO CHRISTIANS anywhere in Matthew. Only old testament Jews.

Read Paul if you want to know where judgement for accepting or rejecting Christ happens. I will not post it for you, do your own research.

But Matthew 24, and 25 deal with the events recorded in Revelations, Isaiah, and Daniel. They have NOTHING to do with Christians. Stay out of Matthew....for Christian DOCTRINE!! There is not one Christian any where in Matthew!

jmdewey60

posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 10:20 PM

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reply to post by KJV1611

The judgement for rejecting Jesus was Jerusalem being leveled and the temple dismantled and the Jews banished from living in Judea.
The judgement in Mathew is of all the nations with no exclusions and not Yahweh claiming his kingdom in the former Canaan.

XplanetX

posted on Sep, 9 2011 @ 05:20 AM

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Originally posted by kevin32

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by jmdewey60

The big difference, to me, is that the sacrifice was made by God

And how do you know this? The Romans considered him to be blasphemous, as they people were reporting him to be king of the Jews. It wasn't God who sacrificed Jesus, it was man.

I'm sure, as "GOD" is "all-powerful" that he could have found a better way to teach humanity a lesson or two, rather than have Romans kill his "son".

If this is all true then there must have been a reason why God chose it this way

MT 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

It was done in this way so that the scriptures would be fulfilled and we could have an everlasting atonement for our sin.

sk0rpi0n

posted on Sep, 9 2011 @ 11:32 PM

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reply to post by KJV1611

you guys get this figured out yet? Don't tell me you are still looking for people being judged for accepting or rejecting Chirst in Matthew? Cause it is not there, just as scorpion says......there are NO CHRISTIANS anywhere in Matthew. Only old testament Jews.

Well, its not there anywhere in the bible. Jesus never taught such a doctrine.

Read Paul if you want to know where judgement for accepting or rejecting Christ happens. I will not post it for you, do your own research.

You are teaching people to read Pauls words instead of Jesus' for instructions on religious topics... despite Jesus warning people not to call any man "Father" or "instructor"

You reject Jesus words in Matthew and have instead made Paul your instructor/teacher/guide. Why?

But Matthew 24, and 25 deal with the events recorded in Revelations, Isaiah, and Daniel. They have NOTHING to do with Christians. Stay out of Matthew....for Christian DOCTRINE!! There is not one Christian any where in Matthew!

"Stay out of Matthew....for Christian DOCTRINE!! There is not one Christian any where in Matthew"

I do know that Matthew has plenty about Jesus... and is a great source to read Jesus' own words. Just why are you telling people to stay out of Matthew and go read Paul?

edit on 9-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

RRokkyy

posted on Sep, 10 2011 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Conclusion :
The basis of judgement, according to Matthew 25:31-46, seems to simply be on how a person treats his fellow man. Please note that, there is NO mention of Jesus dying for peoples sins and people being forgiven by accepting Jesus' death on the cross ...in spite of it being the only requirement for salvation according to christian doctrine.

Thanks to their doctrine, Christians have reduced their own messiah Jesus to a sacrificial animal.... just because they believe his death can save them from the consequenes of their own sins. A free ticket out of trouble.

You have grasped the flaw there in.

One gets saved according to the Teachings of Jesus by going through a spiritual rebirth, by becoming like a
child, and lastly by becoming One with the Father.
Spiritual rebirth requires you to Abandon Seeking and Fall into that State of Grace.
This is a partial Ego Death which is why 99 percent of Christians have not been born again,
despite claiming such.
To explain it once again:Jesus was saying if you accept me you do not need to seek and
will be born again in the spirit of Non Seeking. Remember Jesus was a very powerful Yogi
and transmitted spiritual energy to his disciples once born again.
To them christianity or churchianity is just a form of Paganism.

You will most likely reject what I have said because you do not
want to sacrifice your Ego only to glamorize it with your knowledge.
edit on 10-9-2011 by RRokkyy because: (no reason given)

sk0rpi0n

posted on Sep, 10 2011 @ 01:42 AM
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reply to post by RRokkyy

Im not sure, I get what you were saying about "energy" and Jesus being a yogi and all. But yes, Jesus was a teacher and not just a mere sacrificial lamb as he is made out to be.

The OP points out that there is no account of Jesus judging someone basis whether or not they accepted his sacrifice...anywhere in the bible. This is important because christianitys core doctrine is that that one needs to accept that Jesus died for their sins to be saved... but yet has no biblical basis.

Remember, in Matthew 25 Jesus is speaking about the future. If getting saved depended on accepting Jesus sacrifice, then we would have seen Jesus judge people based on accepting/rejecting the sacrfice.

KJV1611

posted on Sep, 10 2011 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The only reason I keep replying to you sk0rpi0n is because you seem to be genuinely interested or at least curious about Biblical matters, without too much rhetoric and sarcasm...although, I happen to enjoy sarcasm myself, and so does God for that matter as He uses it quite extensively in His word. ok....

Well, its not there anywhere in the bible. Jesus never taught such a doctrine.

John 3:3
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. "
John 3:18
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "
John 3:36
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
1 John 5:12
"He that HATH THE SON hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
Hebrews 9:26-27
"For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the JUDGMENT: "
2 Peter 3:7
"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of JUDGMENT and perdition of ungodly men" (These "ungodly" men are those who have not accepted Christ...makes sense no?)

It is very clear from scripture....either you accept Jesus Christ as your personal sin sacrifice who had to burn in hell for you just as any animal sacrifice burns on the alter...or you your self will have to burn in hell for your own sins.

You are teaching people to read Pauls words instead of Jesus' for instructions on religious topics... despite Jesus warning people not to call any man "Father" or "instructor" You reject Jesus words in Matthew and have instead made Paul your instructor/teacher/guide. Why?

1 Cor 4:15-16
"For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. "

As you can see, it is perfectly scriptural to have other instructors than Jesus Christ. Matter of fact, Paul said these people in question had ten thousand instructors!!

And once again as I have already told you this, it is perfectly fine for me to FOLLOW another man other than Jesus Christ. Look at verse 16!!! " be ye followers of me"

I am a follower of Paul. And if you are a Christan you should be as well. What, you think if you follower Jesus' sayings you go to Heaven?!?!?
How about you cut off your hand or pluck your eye out if it offends you!
Or keep all the law and commandments like the rich young ruler was told to! And if you can do that, then you have to sale all that you have material wise too!! And while you are at it you have to follow Christ....good luck though, because He isn't on this planet to follow....... I could post 20 more examples but you get my point.

I do know that Matthew has plenty about Jesus... and is a great source to read Jesus' own words. Just why are you telling people to stay out of Matthew and go read Paul?

Because of the above. Unless you are mature enough to rightly divide (2 Tim 2:15) the word of truth and correctly apply scripture to the correct dispensation and audience the words are directed too (Isaiah 28:10-13), then you have no business playing around with doctrine taken from Matthew. Or Acts, Hebrews, James Mark, Luke either.

These are hard sayings (John 6:60) for some to digest, but true none the less.

jmdewey60

posted on Sep, 10 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by KJV1611

Notice the real explicit verses about being judged for not accepting Jesus was being said by Jesus.
There is a reason for that, which is he came first for the Jews, who represented the Remnant of Israel.
He was the the one, where he told them repeatedly that he was him, the one they were expecting to come, their Messiah.
Instead of accepting him and believing in him, they rejected him and did not believe in him, so there is a special significance to what he was saying because of who exactly he was talking to.
He knew what was going to happen to them if they did reject him because it was told to Daniel and Jesus knew they would be no more if they did not believe, as in an early judgement, first for the Jews, and then for the nations.

edit on 10-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

KJV1611

posted on Sep, 10 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60

Correct Sir, good observation. Thankful the Jew rejected their messiah, so now I have a Savior. Although this time line and even myself would not be here if they had received him.