How does one get "saved" according to christianity?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Paul said that a righteous man's works are as a filthy rag before the Lord.

That was actually Isaiah. That was back when Israel was being drug off by the Assyrians, so apparently they were not righteous, according to their way of thinking back then, where they attributed calamity to being deserved because of being bad somehow.
If you can find a comparable verse in the New Testament, you may want to quote that.

edit on 4-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

How about i post a contradiction to that instead...

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I would actually substitute Believeth on me with "Understand me" though... Simply for the sake of our current language.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Paul said that a righteous man's works are as a filthy rag before the Lord.

That was actually Isaiah. That was back when Israel was being drug off by the Assyrians, so apparently they were not righteous, according to their way of thinking back then, where they attributed calamity to being deserved because of being bad somehow.
If you can find a comparable verse in the New Testament, you may want to quote that.

edit on 4-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

How about i post a contradiction to that instead...

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I would actually substitute Believeth on me with "Understand me" though... Simply for the sake of our current language.

edit on 4-9-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

The ancient greek word πιστεύω (pisteuo, believe) is better translated as (trusts in, clings to, adheres to, relies on). In the west we often equate 'belief' as an intellectual excerise.

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Paul said that a righteous man's works are as a filthy rag before the Lord.

That was actually Isaiah. That was back when Israel was being drug off by the Assyrians, so apparently they were not righteous, according to their way of thinking back then, where they attributed calamity to being deserved because of being bad somehow.
If you can find a comparable verse in the New Testament, you may want to quote that.

edit on 4-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

How about i post a contradiction to that instead...

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I would actually substitute Believeth on me with "Understand me" though... Simply for the sake of our current language.

edit on 4-9-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

The ancient greek word πιστεύω (pisteuo, believe) is better translated as (trusts in, clings to, adheres to, relies on). In the west we often equate 'belief' as an intellectual excerise.

edit on 4-9-2011 by XplanetX because: syntax

Good for you, im glad you understand that...

I exchanged those words because people do not understand that it takes more then just "belief" to walk the path Jesus set.

Belief without examples of that belief is nothing

reply to post by Akragon

I would actually substitute Believeth on me with "Understand me" though...

I comes from a word that means to be convinced, so you may be on the right track, it would seem to imply that you learned something to be convinced of.

(I mean the Greek word, despite what X-planet said)

reply to post by Akragon




The narrow road in song:





and sermon (The video is out of sync but the audio is fine):

I read one needs to believe Jesus rose from the dead, that therein salvation is found. Good luck!

reply to post by KJV1611

Second, no OP, I will not post nor do your homework for you. I told you to stay out of Matthew if you were looking for Christian doctrine....its not there.

I am not asking you to do any homework for me.

And just who decided that Christian doctrine is not present in Matthew? Is it just your opinion , or is it a view shared by other KJV readers?

Either way, Matthew is important to understand the conditions for being saved, as Matthew 25 describes the nature and conditions of judgement. It other words, it challenges the Christian doctrine that one needs to accept the sacrifice of Jesus to be saved... for the simple reason that Matt 25 are the words of Jesus... the one you believe supposedly died for your sins.

Read Paul if you want to know how Christians are saved, and how they are suppose to be saved. You will go to hell quicker than Judas if all you read are the Gospels...(well, maybe not John)

"Read Paul if you want to know how Christians are saved"

No thanks.
I'd rather read the words of Jesus over Paul... when it comes to understanding what Jesus taught his followers. Again, you seem to be elevating Pauls works over certain other works.

Speaking of Paul, you know there is something fishy about him when he directly contradicts Jesus.
(I've left a little question for you to answer in that thread in your signature.

www.abovetopsecret.com...)

Read you Bible on your own (KJV of course) and find the different judgments. There are many of them:
The Great White Throne Judgment (for unsaved)
Judgment seat of Christ (for saved)
Judgment of Nations (goats and sheep)
Judgment of Angels (Gen 6, Isa 14, Ezk 28, Jude)
others as well....

I clearly asked for accounts of judgement where people are rewarded or punished for accepting or rejecting Jesus sacrifice. ... which is also the core issue of this thread.

The bible makes it rather clear that there are none.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

That right there says you must believe in Jesus and that he is the savior.

I believe in Jesus. I will also believe Jesus words when he says that people are judged based on the good that they have dont to others. Is there a problem in believing Jesus words in Matthew 25?

If Jesus ever said that "those who will believe that I died for their sins will be saved", please show it to me and I will retract my statement in the OP and ask for this thread to be closed.
("Jesus" in bold, because I want to hear it in his own words... not the words of someone else, interpreting what Jesus wanted for us.)

You are a false prophet twisting the words to suit your own ends.

I never claimed to be a prophet.
I am simply putting up Matthew 25 for discussion and debate.

You MUST believe in Jesus Christ and that he died on the cross for your sins and that he rose on the 3rd day to be redeemed. Just doing good works alone will not get you into heaven. You can do all the good works till youre blue in the face but if you don't accept Jesus you will not have eternal life. You are teaching false doctrine and i rebuke you.

Well, please tell me....

1. Again, show me where Jesus said that we need to believe that he died for our sins.
2. If good works alone are not enough to get us into heaven, why is Jesus seen rewarding people who did good works?

Again, I am not teaching anything. I am simply reading from the bible.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n



Jesus does say this:


MK 8:38 "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."


It is not so much about rejecting his sacrifice, it is more about rejecting Jesus himself that could pose a problem for salvation.

Concerning Jesus sacrifice:


MT 20:17 Now as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside and said to them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"

skipping to verse 28...

MT 20:28 "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."


If we are not ashamed of Jesus and his words then we must accept that he died as a ransom for our sins.

Case closed.

reply to post by XplanetX

Jesus does say this:

MK 8:38 "If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."

It is not so much about rejecting his sacrifice, it is more about rejecting Jesus himself that could pose a problem for salvation.

I am NOT ashamed of Jesus. I am also NOT rejecting Jesus himself.

reply to post by XplanetX

If we are not ashamed of Jesus and his words then we must accept that he died as a ransom for our sins.

Case closed.

Case closed? Not quite.

Because Jesus did not judge the sheep/ goats on whether they accepted/ rejected that Jesus died as a ransom for their sins.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n



I am not saying that you have rejected Jesus at all, easy tiger

Don't make the mistake of overlooking certain scripture to fit your own take on watering down Christ's sacrifice, it is erronous. I notice that you are very quick to pounce on Paul's commentary on the scriptures while you try and dance around the obvious flaws in your own interpretation.

Jesus clearly teaches us that his sacrifice was a ransom for many.

Every inbreath and outbreath of Brahma is divided by a moment when the 'in' becomes the 'out'.
Waves, breaking on a shore, have a mechanism by which they are formed.
Water rushing away from the shore (beneath the surface) sucks the incoming water from beneath (which is rushing forward, towards the shore).
This pattern repeats itself, as does the inbreath and outbreath of Brahma.
You are arriving at the inbreath soon!

The inbreath and outbreath describe ages of existence, which is translated as, the destruction of one, and the birth of another.
But, just like the waves on the water, there is no destruction, or rebirth, per se.

Prophets have appeared on this planet. Some are associated with major or minor religions. Each having its own interpretation of 'A MESSAGE'.

Buddha was a messenger...not the MESSAGE!
Mohammed was a messenger...not the MESSAGE!
Christ was a messenger...not the MESSAGE!

Each of these, and others, brought a MESSAGE...which was relayed to the populace of thier age.
Some, manufactured religions from the MESSAGE...and subsequent generations deemed it the ONLY true MESSAGE, to the exclusion of all others. Wars, pogroms, crusades were wreaked on the populace, in the name of the chosen MESSAGE. Often, the MESSAGE has been confused with the messenger...and same, was shot! (figuratively speaking).

All of the MESSAGES are the same MESSAGE.

From one generation to the next, a colossal and vast game of Chinese Whispers has been played with the MESSAGE. Along the way, humanity (being human) has claimed exclusive truth from the result of generations of a game, that no-one knew they were playing. It is still being done now. Interestingly, the MESSAGE is the same. It cannot be hidden by words, it cannot be claimed by one human group, over another. It is an all-inclusive MESSAGE.
It is only humanity, which has split it, and massaged it, and repackaged it, and advertise it as the pinnacle of the product...thier exclusive product!

Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. etc. etc...(all are INCLUDED)

The Mayans have a calendar, which has been on 'high rotation' for the last few years. The calendar tells of the end of an age. Indeed the calendar ends on a certain date.

The Christians have thier Tribulation & Rapture. The end of an age.

The Great in-breath, and out-breath of Brahma. The end of an age.

New Agers have the up-shifting from one dimension to another. The end of an age.

Each religion has its set of 'rules' to live by. Be they complex or simple...there are basic 'rules'. The 'rules' were, more often than not, transmitted by a messenger. Usually somebody intimately connected with a being called God.

One must ask, 'Why rules?'

The 'end of the age' scenario, in almost all religions...is associated with upheaval, change, culling...and often, if not always with renewal, in a new 'place'. The conditions for this renewal to occur to the individual, almost always involves the following of these 'rules' during the individuals lifetime/s...either strictly, or 'thereabouts'.

The questions must be asked...

'Why rules?'

Following the path from rules-messenger-renewal...there is a consistently paved process, which it seems, must be followed (to some degree), for the end result to be achieved, by the individual. Follow these 'rules' and you will be 'saved', 'up-stepped' etc. etc. etc...

The wheel of rebirth or reincarnation, mentioned to some degree in all religions, describes the method by which the individualised soul moves ever forward through lifetimes, either following or not following these 'rules'. A spiritual 'Snakes & Ladders' game. Karma describes the moment to realise the error of not following the 'rules', either in this life or the next, or the next...whichever life circumstance serves this lesson best.

An exquisitely focused moment in 'time', is upon humanity right now. The Grand 'doorway', the Grand 'portal', the Grand 'bridge', is opening, widening, spanning...for the critical mass of individual souls to pass (if they wish - and why wouldn't you?) to a new level.

The MESSAGE, which has been (unwittingly) hijacked, describes the method by which, YOU, as an individual, will move from this paradigm to the next. All the conditions necessary for this to happen will happen shortly. The 'rules' prepare the biological and mental structure of YOU to move, shift, be reborn...etc. etc. etc...
It is not enough to pay lip service to the 'rules'. They must be a part of your being. You must talk the talk, and walk the walk! There is NO feigning, at this late stage!

Indeed, the way two of the world religions describe it, illustrates this point. You must recognise the Christ or Buddha within you, to be able to successfully navigate the transition.

The 'real', is about to get a whole lot 'real-er', for those who will walk through that door.

Akushla

reply to post by XplanetX

Don't make the mistake of overlooking certain scripture to fit your own take on watering down Christ's sacrifice, it is erronous.

And what scripture am I overlooking? If I have overlooked a part of the scripture where we see Jesus specifically teaching that those who rejected his sacrifice will be punished in hell then please show it to me.

In fact, I honestly think that accepting that Jesus died on the cross for my sins is by far the easiest path to salvation/being saved, but unfortunately for people looking for such an easy way to salvation, Jesus never taught such a thing.

I notice that you are very quick to pounce on Paul's commentary on the scriptures while you try and dance around the obvious flaws in your own interpretation.

If I "pounce" on Pauls commentaries, its because of some glaring contradictions between his words and Jesus'.

Jesus clearly teaches us that his sacrifice was a ransom for many.

My point is, if accepting the sacrifice was the only way to be saved, then Jesus would have judged people on whether or not they accepted his sacrifice. Clearly that is not the case in Matthew 25 or anywhere else. And neither do we see another account of judgement where people were judged for a decison taken on the sacrifice.

'From one generation to the next, a colossal and vast game of Chinese Whispers has been played with the MESSAGE. Along the way, humanity (being human) has claimed exclusive truth from the result of generations of a game, that no-one knew they were playing. It is still being done now. Interestingly, the MESSAGE is the same. It cannot be hidden by words, it cannot be claimed by one human group, over another. It is an all-inclusive MESSAGE.
It is only humanity, which has split it, and massaged it, and repackaged it, and advertise it as the pinnacle of the product...thier exclusive product!'

Akushla

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by XplanetX

 

Don't make the mistake of overlooking certain scripture to fit your own take on watering down Christ's sacrifice, it is erronous.

And what scripture am I overlooking? If I have overlooked a part of the scripture where we see Jesus specifically teaching that those who rejected his sacrifice will be punished in hell then please show it to me.

In fact, I honestly think that accepting that Jesus died on the cross for my sins is by far the easiest path to salvation/being saved, but unfortunately for people looking for such an easy way to salvation, Jesus never taught such a thing.

I notice that you are very quick to pounce on Paul's commentary on the scriptures while you try and dance around the obvious flaws in your own interpretation.

If I "pounce" on Pauls commentaries, its because of some glaring contradictions between his words and Jesus'.

Jesus clearly teaches us that his sacrifice was a ransom for many.

My point is, if accepting the sacrifice was the only way to be saved, then Jesus would have judged people on whether or not they accepted his sacrifice. Clearly that is not the case in Matthew 25 or anywhere else. And neither do we see another account of judgement where people were judged for a decison taken on the sacrifice.

It is not just about accepting Jesus sacrifice for salvation, it is much more than that. Although accepting his sacrifice as an atonement for sin is certainly a part of it. You are missing the forest for the trees. I agree that salvation is not easy and there are very few who find it.

ISA 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Jesus is the true vine, we can do nothing effective for God apart from him. Only through Jesus can we be fruitful:


JN 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

JN 15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.



If we try to please God through our own effort then we will fail dismally. This is the trap that the Teachers of the Law could not break out of. They honoured God with their lips while their hearts were far from him.

reply to post by akushla99

It cannot be hidden by words, it cannot be claimed by one human group, over another. It is an all-inclusive MESSAGE.
It is only humanity, which has split it, and massaged it, and repackaged it, and advertise it as the pinnacle of the product...thier exclusive product!'

Somewhat true.
The source of religion is God... not the other way around.
God is not contained within a religon and is therefore above the errors committed by religious dogma.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by akushla99

 

It cannot be hidden by words, it cannot be claimed by one human group, over another. It is an all-inclusive MESSAGE.
It is only humanity, which has split it, and massaged it, and repackaged it, and advertise it as the pinnacle of the product...thier exclusive product!'

Somewhat true.
The source of religion is God... not the other way around.
God is not contained within a religon and is therefore above the errors committed by religious dogma.

Completely true!

Akushla

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by akushla99

 

It cannot be hidden by words, it cannot be claimed by one human group, over another. It is an all-inclusive MESSAGE.
It is only humanity, which has split it, and massaged it, and repackaged it, and advertise it as the pinnacle of the product...thier exclusive product!'

Somewhat true.
The source of religion is God... not the other way around.
God is not contained within a religon and is therefore above the errors committed by religious dogma.

Completely true!

Akushla

...but religion is NOT God!
...and religion, and religious dogma do not emanate from God.
They emanate from man.
The message, is the message!

Akushla