Athiest society? why not loot! (designed this way)

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

The church would feed the poor

Of course they did, that's how the catholic church became one of the richest institutions in the world.

Is that a Nazi holding something shiny?

Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
you remind me of this song

There is only one answer to that.
And thankfully I have the greatest Atheist Rock Band in the world
to play it for me. Even they can see the real threat, and the real issues.
Not only that, they are one of the handfull bands in the history of recording that sound better live than in the studio. I have seen three of their shows, in three different cities, and they have never been less than perfect.


David Grouchy

reply to post by davidgrouchy

Please get some help.. Your thoughts about atheists seem a tad delusional...

Oh and btw.. What do you suggest we do about all those nasty evil atheists?? Maybe we should just all be executed since we are all evil criminals with no morals anyway...

Originally posted by haterproof

Is that a Nazi holding something shiny?

Vague insinuations without solutions
are like a cup without a bottom.

It won't actually hold anything, but
is very effective when used as a perimeter to shut others out.
The problem becomes that one tends to hear the echo of their own voice loudest.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by juleol
Please get some help.. Your thoughts about atheists seem a tad delusional...

Is the Idea here to seriously suggest somehow that
all the looting and burning and beatings are a product of my own delusional mind.
Because from where I'm standing it is Atheism that has fostered an inclement enviroment
for any positive mention of religion on TV and in popular secularist culture. The quote
shown above makes me feel like the people who were demanding better seat belts,
back when the automakers didn't feel like paying for it, and spent millions instead
making naysayers out to be meddlers who were bad for business.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by juleol

Oh and btw.. What do you suggest we do about all those nasty evil atheists?? Maybe we should just all be executed since we are all evil criminals with no morals anyway...

Not my words, but as you wish.
I had just asked, nay nominated, Atheists to provide the solution.
But if you wish to admit the inability to do so and take this route instead ...
Well maybe I'm not the one who requires more help.
Aren't there any other colors in the pallet of Atheist solutions
than the red of executions?


David Grouchy

Originally posted by SaturnFX
(nazi belt buckle saying "God With Us")

The point being what? "Gott Mit Uns" is a rally cry that dates back to the Roman Empire. It's tradition, it has nothing to do with a belief in God any more than carring a pocketful of US money with "In God We Trust" on it indicates that you're a believer.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Hitler was a christian whom hated the church..but his whole inspiration from a early age until the movement was as a christian fulfilling a anti-zionist movement..sounds like a whole lot of nuts to me.

The facts do not bear this out. From Hitler's own lips:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State.

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea.

I'm not saying there haven't been evil people that called themselves Christians, certainly you could look at just about any of the popes in antiquity and see many evil acts that they've performed, while often claiming it was in God's name. But saying that Hitler was a Christian is nonsense, he never claimed he was and in fact spoke out often against Christianity as a scourge that needed to be eliminated.

Originally posted by davidgrouchy
Yes, I'm saying the looters
are not the church
going type.

So if I'm reading you right, you've drawn that conclusion based simply on the fact that the looters were performing illegal acts. Believe me, I would LOVE for it to be true that all church goers are perfect examples of humanity and all non-believers are angry, violent law breakers. It would make sharing the message of salvation SOOOO much easier! But instead we have many "good" church going Christians who molest children, steal, rape, beat their wives, etc. and many atheists who lead surprisingly pure lives. It ain't easy trying to share the good news with people who are wondering why so many priests seem to enjoy molesting children in the very building they're supposed to feel safe in. We simply cannot claim the moral high road, because too many of our numbers don't travel on it.

Originally posted by davidgrouchy
And further
There has been a conspiracy
against christianity on TV for a long while.
How did the name of Jesus become a curse word?

Don't blame the atheists, the people doing the most damage to Christ's name and message are the ones who claim to be Christians and show themselves to be something else entirely. All the atheists have to do is point out the hypocricy that these hand to them on a silver platter, it makes their job easy!

Originally posted by SavedOne
But saying that Hitler was a Christian is nonsense, he never claimed he was and in fact spoke out often against Christianity as a scourge that needed to be eliminated.

And of course we move to the quotes:

Actually, Scru it, here...just go check this out
Hitlers fanatical beliefs, including him claiming to be christian

Its a back and forth argument for eternity with just as much evidence for and against it.

It is my interpretation that Hitler was very religious, but he eventually grew to hate religious institutions...he went from a pretty strict christian, to a reinterpretation, to a sort of unique new belief over his rule, but he started out very christian...Mein Kampf is all but a religious propaganda book...and of course thats about the time when he got his most nutty ideas.

So, it would be wise for theists to give up the "hitler was an atheist" nonsense, because he wasn't..for every 1 sentence he said against christianity (churchianity), there are 10 quotes of his to check it into being a deep believer in God.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SavedOne
But saying that Hitler was a Christian is nonsense, he never claimed he was and in fact spoke out often against Christianity as a scourge that needed to be eliminated.

And of course we move to the quotes:

Actually, Scru it, here...just go check this out
Hitlers fanatical beliefs, including him claiming to be christian

Its a back and forth argument for eternity with just as much evidence for and against it.

It is my interpretation that Hitler was very religious, but he eventually grew to hate religious institutions...he went from a pretty strict christian, to a reinterpretation, to a sort of unique new belief over his rule, but he started out very christian...Mein Kampf is all but a religious propaganda book...and of course thats about the time when he got his most nutty ideas.

So, it would be wise for theists to give up the "hitler was an atheist" nonsense, because he wasn't..for every 1 sentence he said against christianity (churchianity), there are 10 quotes of his to check it into being a deep believer in God.

I would like to throw this into the mix if I may. www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

Originally posted by Agarta
I would like to throw this into the mix if I may. www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

Clicked it

Seen Icke's name

Closed it.

Sorry, but he is a bridge gone too far...he jumped the shark when he insisted lizardmen were walking around with skin suits on frankly...I simply can't listen to him as he is just too far out there...I don't need to read his special report of seven degrees to kevin bacon...hell, we are all connected in some form to both gandhi and hitler with enough branching out.


(just wanted to add: If you want to have your eyes spin to the back of your head, check out how he explains his connections and understandings of "secret societys"...start on the hollow earth dwelling Vril society...amazingly extraordinary claims, and no citation as to how he knows all about it...so, straight from his mind basically...the point of a secret society is that, its secret...how does he know about them? he doesn't say beyond even more nutty talk. He is nothing but disinformation in my opinion and needs to come up with a single tiny shred of evidence for even one of his million claims before taken as anything more than just a sad delusional storyteller)

reply to post by SaturnFX


Okay fare enough, how about Clifford Shack? hidhist.wordpress.com...
Or this one has a lot of detail. www.reformation.org...
or
just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com...
or
projectavalon.net...

There are a few to choose from. I am not trying to fight nor argue only to bring in the possibility to the conversation. I accept that you do not like Icke but it is the info I am interested in.

Being preached to by a Christian about morals is just about the most hilarious thing I have read.

Lets just have a think about the high morals of the Christians involved in the sex abuse scandals over the last few decades and that is just recently, it does n`t even start to cover the litany of scandal the church has been involved in over the years.

The OP is just a troll, this type of thread with its weak arguments and obvious attempts to be provocative, don`t really bear having to answer to. Any form of intelligent debate are missing with a poster like this.

From my experience its the pious popsies and god botherers that have been involved in the creation of where our society is today that hold a huge amount of responsibility. This has been coming for some time and when you have the church well represented in our government you can't blame aethiests solely. Also what about Satanists are they in the box of blame?

Surely the blame actually lies in human greed and political disinterest. A while ago Cameron was out and about in Africa whilst a spot of bother happened here. Had he have been on the ball and legitimately interested in the poor of this country, he would have been out and about on the estates and poor areas here, not in Africa.

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

How did the name of Jesus become a curse word?

Third commandment.

No.

I saying that this is not on anyone's radar by design.

what the hell are you talking about?

I'm a little thrown off by your two back to back one liners though.
David Grouchy

I'm a little thrown off by your incomprehensible and baseless bashing of my beliefs coupled with an apparent ignorance of your own beliefs. I had nothing else to say to you that hadn't been said except for wide and angry insults, most of them about your ignorance and illegibility, so I left them out.

Originally posted by Solasis

I'm a little thrown off by your incomprehensible and baseless bashing of my beliefs coupled with an apparent ignorance of your own beliefs. I had nothing else to say to you that hadn't been said except for wide and angry insults, most of them about your ignorance and illegibility, so I left them out.

Yes yes, we have established that already.

Frightened and angry the Atheists are using the old attack and defame method,
because the terrifying realization that they have ZERO answers to offer
makes the ancient tradition of killing-the-messenger seem right.

Where is your Dawkins when the looting happens.
Apparently he is squarely in the blame game.


David Grouchy

In America:
Athiests or Agnostics(Unaffiliated) = 16.1%

In London:
Athiests or Agnostics(Unaffiliated) = 15.8%

The majority of people in London, the majority doing the riots, are still christians.

Now, to compare to some of what I consider healthier(Friendlier, more social, less crime) societies.

In Sweden:
Athiests = 23%
Deists = 53%

In Japan:
Athiests or Agnostics(Nonreligious) = 52%
Oh, and Christians = 11%

In Japan, is where the (mostly atheists) were sacrificing their lives volunteering to go into fukushima to help slow down the meltdown.

~
There's practically a direct correlation between atheism and healthy societies.

Instead, you're blaming a small minority in London, for something being done by everyone, including the majority(Christians).

Now you're smears on atheism being to blame transcribe onto the truth that London is still mostly christian.

~
If I saw a man getting mugged on the street, I'd do what I could to save him. Even if I ended up getting the crap beat out of me.

I'd imagine you'd just slide away and say a little prayer when you get the chance, and pretend that means you helped.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


The only person round here not answering any questions is you. One answer given by someone just seems to beget a further inflammatory response by you.

Challenge yourself and actually try and answer some of these people

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel

Can you admit to your failures as easily?

Yes. I'm a failure.







So is that it?
We're down to counter attacking
by digging up dirty laundry on other religions.

No evidence of the Athiests' solution to instilling
greater social responsibility in the people pushed
to the edges of society?

The first "attack", if you want, was from Hypnotode up there, with his vague I've improved since I dropped belief, why can't all Christians, and I was responding to him. This was more a matter or trying to provoke a thought, not accusing anyone of being better or worse than I am. Challenges of this nature will usually be pretty harsh...although this was one of the mildest routes I could have taken, for this conversation.

Reiteration:
1. Literally the Christian textbook for belief says it's antithesis (like Atheists) should be able to dscern right from wrong from nature. So I accept that someone I see as having inferior reasoning skills (hey, most Atheist think the same damn thing of Christians, and have used phrasing that lends to that concept in this very discussion...) can have a moral code stronger than some random Christian who puts no effort into it. That is a perfectly reasonable conclusion--I don't conceptually think of Atheist as having bad morals because they are Atheist. I just see them as having less reason to continue having good morals. Jsut as Christians having more reason to stay moral doesn't mean that they will.

2. Not all things morally right are easy to do without either outside help or extremely dilligent self discipline. I was asking point blank:
Do the things you find difficult to practice that are a matter of right and wrong continually practiced/worked on by you or not?
If 80% of your active life is not spent in bettering yourself for the good of all mankind, then what good are you? So, you don't kill. Neither does most people who cheat on their spouses. There's always something to improve.

I know a lot of Christians who pat themselves on the back so hard that their arms about to fall out of it's socket. At the same time, I haven't met an Atheist that has not insisted that they were enlightened intelectuals--often in the most obnoxious way possible. (I never get that from Agnostics. Nothing but fear, confusion, and occassionally "I don't care!") The "I have arrived" mentality stagnates. I'm not talking about basic confidence in your beliefs, I'm talking about dropping self-improvement because no one else tops you. It's like an athelete who insists on eating a 3000 calorie diet when they no longer exerccise. How long does that take to hit obesity?

If you are intentionally working on your morality continually, what in the world motivates you? How do you prevent your supeiority complex from overwhelming your need to be the best that you can be?

And this is serous business! I, for the life of me can't find the dang study I was introduced to a couple of months ago, but there is a study out there that points out that if you do 1 good deed, you reward yourself with a bad deed. This is why a lot of animal rights activists are jerks. (People need to be burned!) This happens in every group out there, so I'm not going to label every single group under the sun.

The thing is, if you can't continue to improve your morality, why in the world should someone with less even bother?

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by Solasis

I'm a little thrown off by your incomprehensible and baseless bashing of my beliefs coupled with an apparent ignorance of your own beliefs. I had nothing else to say to you that hadn't been said except for wide and angry insults, most of them about your ignorance and illegibility, so I left them out.

Yes yes, we have established that already.

Frightened and angry the Atheists are using the old attack and defame method,
because the terrifying realization that they have ZERO answers to offer
makes the ancient tradition of killing-the-messenger seem right.

Where is your Dawkins when the looting happens.
Apparently he is squarely in the blame game.

David Grouchy

No, you're the one attacking and defaming! How the hell -- what the hell is freaking wrong with you?! You are attacking and defaming atheists as looters and criminals, with NOTHING to back you up besides the assertion that this must be because of the lack of God!

You're rude, ignorant, and just plain awful, Grouchy.