Athiest society? why not loot! (designed this way)

Originally posted by tyson45

im failing to follow your point. So you see a bunch of 15 years olds looting because the police cant control them and all of a sudden you want to change the outlook on religion? seems a bit far fetched but hey to each his own i guess.

Plain and simple.

This looting is happening
because of the destruction of religion
by our corporate masters and Athiest Professors.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

How did the name of Jesus become a curse word?

Third commandment. Second if you're a Lutheran or Catholic.

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

How did the name of Jesus become a curse word?

Third commandment.

No.

I saying that this is not on anyone's radar by design.

Demand that Dawkins provide an enlightened benevolent
solution to these events of flash lootings.

He is the high priest (strike that)
the champion of ethics is he not.


David Grouchy

It depends on which group you are talking about. Member of the group Church of Christ, and every disaster, they're pulling in with truckloads of goods (Church of Christ Disaster Relief Fund), and the local group is in charge of passing out what they can. And I know we got a couple of children's homes. This is all done in-group, and rather quietly, although we don't hide it from people. Catholic services are everywhere, meeting people's needs. Some groups really take to heart the phrase: "Those who will not take care of their own are worse than Atheists." And roughly once a month our direct church gets cries for help in our community. No point in shouting this stuff from the roof top because it is our basic duty. Oh, and a lot of Goodwills are still run by Churches, and Salvation Army is still nominally a faith-based organization.

(I think that Assembly of God is the closest thing to our movement in England, so we're going to have to go through connections to see if anyone needs help out that way, once the fighting subsides. Maybe even before, depending on how the rioting runs.)

But anyway, are we doing enough? What did Schindler say at the end of Schindler's List? Something along the lines of, "Why didn't I sell your broach, or the car? How many more could we have saved?" The poor and in need are always with us, and we'll never be able to help them all.

No, the Goverment shouldn't be into welfare at all, but they are because Christianity and its ilk is not doing enough. But then, as long as the poor insists on getting things they don't need out of welfare, for free, I don't think Christianity can support them.

It is really no secret what has happened to us - they translated marxism into cultural terms and called it political correctness.

Not that Xtian morals are necessary to hold a society together - they are not, but they area whole lot better than marxism!

By the end of WWI, socialists realized that something was amiss, for the world's proletariat had not heeded Marx's call to rise up in opposition to evil capitalism and to embrace communism instead. They wondered what had gone wrong. Separately, two Marxist theorists-Antonio Gramsci of Italy and Georg Lukacs of Hungary-concluded that the Christianized West was the obstacle standing in the way of a communist new world order.

The West would have to be conquered first. Gramsci posited that because Christianity had been dominant in the West for over 2000 years, not only was it fused with Western civilization, but it had corrupted the workers class. The West would have to be de-Christianized, said Gramsci, by means of a "long march through the culture."

Additionally, a new proletariat must be created. In his "Prison Notebooks," he suggested that the new proletariat be comprised of many criminals, women, and racial minorities. The new battleground, reasoned Gramsci, must become the culture, starting with the traditional family and completely engulfing churches, schools, media, entertainment, civic organizations, literature, science, and history.

All of these things must be radically transformed and the social and cultural order gradually turned upside-down with the new proletariat placed in power at the top.

www.americanthinker.com...

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

How did the name of Jesus become a curse word?

Third commandment.

No.

I saying that this is not on anyone's radar by design.

what the hell are you talking about?

Christians have given themselves a pretty trick. To not include immoral people as 'christians' just because they don't agree with their actions.

Imagine an Atheist saying "You're not truly an atheist if you commit crimes or subscribe to immorality". It wouldn't make sense. You don't believe in God(s), you're an atheist, even if you don't follow the moral compass natural to you. If you believe in the biblical God, you're a christian, even if you don't follow the 'sin' rules given to you by said god.

It's a facade. Christians are just as likely to commit crimes, or be immoral, as anyone else. Christians just want to shut out those that act bad in their sects, while exaggerate those who do in other groups, so they can pretend to have moral superiority.

Aren't bad people bad people? It's not the beliefs that lead to immorality, it's the people themselves.

Anyways, Ad Hominums don't mean anything to what's truth or not.

~
One thing though, against Christianity. Is that it leads to people being raised to not follow their own morals. Shut off you're morals, let this book tell you what's right or wrong. That leads to christians who gradually take their beliefs less seriously, and have a weak moral sense left over, or atheist converts who don't have anything telling them right from wrong anymore.

If people could be raised to strengthen their morals internally. Not externally. There wouldn't be a need for an external source of morality. And immorality would drastically decrease.

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel

No, the Goverment shouldn't be into welfare at all, but they are because Christianity and its ilk is not doing enough.

I agree.

And if these lootings had happened three generations ago
everyone would have been calling for more church action.

In these modern days, I would be happy with action
by Pagans and Athiests. But where are they?


David Grouchy

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

How did the name of Jesus become a curse word?

Third commandment.

No.

I saying that this is not on anyone's radar by design.

what the hell are you talking about?

You first.

No seriously though,
I really dig your posts,
and have enjoyed reading
your contributions over the years.

I'm a little thrown off by your two back to back one liners though.


David Grouchy

reply to post by tyson45


It becomes my concern when they infringe upon my country-given rights, by requirement of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's. When a belief system (in this case, the "I'm entitled" more than Atheist) starts rioting in the streets and causing civil unrest, it is my duty to get involved. Most likely by reeducation.

Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx

~
One thing though, against Christianity. Is that it leads to people being raised to not follow their own morals.

If by "not following their own morals" you mean,
not participating in mob like looting and gang stomping of the weak,
then YES, Christianity leads people.

Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx

If people could be raised to strengthen their morals internally. Not externally. There wouldn't be a need for an external source of morality. And immorality would drastically decrease.

Tell that to the looters
the next time they want your pants.

A Group of Christian will let you keep em, and your shirt.
They may even feed you, or at least take you to the hospital.


David Grouchy

So...


A christian then, if we are to believe the OPs, only is for peace and morality so long as a deity is keeping track of them...should they find out one day that their is no deity, they will be allowed to do what they want to do...which is loot/rape/etc...

ok, you had shown your character, and I do suggest you keep your religion...your not evolved enough to go without a supernatural dad figure to watch you...you clearly have no desire to do the right thing and so require a deity to hold you back from -your- nature.

Gotcha.

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel

It becomes my concern when they infringe upon my country-given rights, by requirement of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's. When a belief system (in this case, the "I'm entitled" more than Atheist) starts rioting in the streets and causing civil unrest, it is my duty to get involved. Most likely by reeducation.

I agree.

Why is Caesar intruding on the wealfare of the poor anyway.
And why are the taxes levied for such a meer fraction of that which reaches the poor and needy.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
Christians started this failure by insisting that people have rights, then it eventually slipped into an entitlement mode of operation.

Guilty as charged.
But how, then, did the state take over all charitable works?
And how would their report card on said efforts look compared to Christians?

David Grouchy

The state took it over because the churches didn't or couldn't. You do realize that if the state was run properly there would be little need for charity? Our problems come from those who hide behind the church and not from those who reject it.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
So...


A christian then, if we are to believe the OPs, only is for peace and morality so long as a deity is keeping track of them...should they find out one day that their is no deity, they will be allowed to do what they want to do...which is loot/rape/etc...

ok, you had shown your character, and I do suggest you keep your religion...your not evolved enough to go without a supernatural dad figure to watch you...you clearly have no desire to do the right thing and so require a deity to hold you back from -your- nature.

Gotcha.

SaturnFX,
You are far too inteligent and sophisticated to indulge in such tactics and wordplay.

I used to play Dungeons & Dragons. Love the game. And in those terms,
and to counter the inverted nature of the quote above, I'll put it this way.

Say there are only 3 levels.

Level 1: Faith based institutions
Level 2: Secular
Level 3: Athiest

By deleting level 1 from society,
how is anyone ever supposed to make it to level 2?

What are all the quotes by the looters saying?
They don't care, and don't want to go to school.

See what I'm saying?

/a little intimidated
David Grouchy

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical

Our problems come from those who hide behind the church and not from those who reject it.

Really?

The Baptist picnic ended,
and as everyone was licking fried chicken from their fingers they all said
"Hey! Lets go looting and burn down stores in London!"

/sarcasm over
David Grouchy

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


1. Still wouldn't work to go by your own moral compass. Just like kids, we need consequences to behave in a sound manner. Think of it this way: the more violence you see, the less you respond to the stimuli. Thankfully most would not find it easy to go to the next step and become the next Columbine. This is scientifically sound. Without a group of people surrounding you, with the same basic moral code, all egging each other on to do better, the lying/stealing/cheating you would see on a daily basis would eventually corrupt you.

2. The shame of it is that you've just partially proven the existence of a collective anti-current through Christianity vs. Athiesm, ie. the concept of Satan. Why would there be a need to argue morality from Atheist to Atheist if there's nothing right about the Atheist moral code to argue over?

3. There's already a strong reunification movement running through Christianity about how we deal with sins. Too many have left behind the admitting to your sins and being humble at all times. Christians aren't supposed to be saved because they're sin-free, but because they're fully aware of their failures, and that there is nothing they can do for themselves to fix it. At the same time, we're supposed to learn to control our behavior. This becomes a whole-life struggle.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Probably still too busy blaming Christians for their snooty behavior so that they can justify their lack of personal effort. what I am or am not doing does not relieve anyone of their own social responsibilities. Still our fault because we're not there either, and we're pretty much the only ones who really believe we have responsibilities to the looters.

I understand that no one is going to be convinced of anything in this thread. Well educated Athiests are valuable members of society already. And, in my opinion, so are Catholics.

Here are the words I wish to share.

Demand answers about these cases of mob looting from the Athiest Professors. These people are a valuable asset. Deploy that asset. Don't let them wait out the storm and only pick the easy problems to solve. Ask them the question.

What are they doing to bring in the disenfranchised,
Or are the hidden leftovers just supposed to rot?


David Grouchy

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

If by "not following their own morals" you mean,
not participating in mob like looting and gang stomping of the weak,
then YES, Christianity leads people.

David Grouchy

edit on 11-8-2011 by davidgrouchy because: (no reason given)

No, they don't have internal morals built up. Which Christianity is at some fault for. These looters are either people incapable of morality(even if they're christians), or they weren't raised in a way that let them develop their own morality(possibly due to being taught not to sin instead of taught to have morals).

It's like making a women date you by keeping a gun to her head(Following sin laws). Compare that to letting a women date you because she has feelings for you(following inner compass).

By having the Gun to her head, you never allow her to develop the want to be with you by internal emotions. And if you ever lose the gun, she'll be out of there(going into immorality) immediately.

Do you believe all atheists are immoral? Do you believe all Christians are moral? What's you're stance of other religions? Do you know it's possible to have moral philosophy to guide you without religion?

Those are all good questions that would make you're stance more clear.