US asks China to explain why it wants carrier

You don't always have to have evidence to see what's brewing in the pot, sometimes you easily smell out the ingredients and know whats for dinner.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
very very true and I like the saying

Originally posted by bobdigi
That was my first reaction...who gives the U.S. the right to question the military goals of any other country...and honestly that extends to nuclear weapons. If we can have them, so can any other country. I think the prevailing opinion among the powers that be is that we are the "good guys". Not that we aren't, in some sense, but the fact of the matter is, we do not, or should not, have the authority to police the world. We can have intel on other countries, but cannot dictate what they do with their military.

Sure we can, if it wasn't us, we wouldn't be the strongest nation. I think we use our abilities a bit nefariously -- but it's the meta game of the world. If china doesn't like it, they don't have to answer... but then we could assume they are intending us as a target and demand more intel.

If china doesn't want to answer they won't. If they don't like it they'd have to beat us up. Being the world super power means being the biggest collective bully on the planet by the nature of resource management. It's the intentions of this bully that are most important. Is he really a bully? Or is he attempting to lead the pack to prosperity keeping an eye on those that wish a mutiny?

Like it or not, the world is afraid of America. It used to be well respected fear (Because we were a leader), it's turning into well hated fear(Because we've become the bully)... which then dissolves into standing up for yourself, which in the meta game, means war....

Expect a "REAL" war in the coming years. (By real, I mean to the magnitude of WWII...) The tell tale signs are all around...

Trade wars lead to real wars... and the whole world is mad at us... since our currency is the world's currency -- and we are killing it on purpose.

Observe -- for we really are becoming the next Germany, circa 1940... Only much more technologically evolved.. and we are starting from a greater place of power. Bell curve -- anyone?

(This is written as simple as possible purposefully.)

reply to post by ateuprto

Again, it's because we've never hidden what we were building, save for concept and research aircraft.

Maybe this was a concept and research carrier?

reply to post by ateuprto

but after that they would be sunk

So you would advocate sinking the vessel of another nation in International waters?

Why does that not surprise me?

reply to post by ateuprto

I think you forget the fact that many of the conflicts the United States of America enters are because they are asked to do so on behalf of your "peaceful" European nations.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to elucidate?

Some links would be useful.

US: "So China, what are you going to do with that carrier?"

China: "Well, you see, US, we will put aircraft on it."

For America to be the only nation in the history of human beings that have actually dropped multiple nukes on innocent civilians, not too long ago. They sure seem to be in a dillusional state of mind to be asking anyone about anything concerning military equipment.

Originally posted by OrionsRage
For America to be the only nation in the history of human beings that have actually dropped multiple nukes on innocent civilians, not too long ago. They sure seem to be in a dillusional state of mind to be asking anyone about anything concerning military equipment.

lets not forget the classic "We are a peaceful nation" responses

Go onto any street in the US and ask "are you a peaceful nation?" you will probably get a 99 to 100% response "Yes" to that.

Dillusional at its best.

Ditto that!

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


America happens to be a democracy and a beacon of freedom and justice... therefore it gets to keep its war machines.

reply to post by Glass


US: "Why did you get this carrier?"

China: "75% discount at a Russian yard sale"

Originally posted by ateuprto

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by ateuprto
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

My first question would be what country you reside in?

We ARE a peaceful nation, and despite your simplistic point of view, the rest of the "Western" world is just as dirty as we are. I think you forget the fact that many of the conflicts the United States of America enters are because they are asked to do so on behalf of your "peaceful" European nations. The "War on Terror" is a different story, however it is one that is much, MUCH more complex than a simple act of unwarranted aggression.

edit on 11-8-2011 by ateuprto because: (no reason given)

There was nothing peaceful happening when they illegally invaded iraq. Im not suprised that countries are going hardcore with there militery. Maybe its because they don't know who America will invade next, could very well be them!

That is fear-mongering nonsense not based in reality. We are not there for resources. We are not there because we hate Islam. The invasion of Iraq was not a wise choice, that coming from a man who has been deployed there. It was a short-sighted, reactionary decision made on non-existent and/or false intelligence. That is not to say that Saddam Hussein's regime was innocent of harboring individuals and organizations with the intentions of attacking the United States of America, because I assure you, he was. Had I been commander-in-chief we would have not started that campaign, though I am much more familiar with tribal, social and religious relations in the region. A strong-handed, brutal dictator has been necessary in many Arab nations. They are the only ones ruthless enough to control the widespread intercultural and inter-religious conflicts that exist there.

The United States of America is guilty of making poor decisions in the immediate aftermath of the 2001 attacks. I have no qualms with conceding to that. It is my (our) responsibility. I can assure you, however, that most of the scum we are currently engaged with in Afghanistan and Iraq today are horrible human beings. They slaughter men, women and children knowingly and intentionally. Not in isolated cases of insanity, but as widespread and accepted doctrine. Their perspectives are so warped and ingrained that it would scare you. I have no problems with our killing these jerk-offs, but I have also seen what they are capable of first-hand.

The point is that we are not some insane war-machine, wantonly attacking whoever we deem unworthy. There are plenty of nations we have had issues with for decades that we have not engaged militarily. That is because they have not presented a threat to our nation militarily. When men are willing and able to inflict mass civilian casualties on our own soil and abroad, do you expect us to sit back and wait for the next attack? How does one guarantee safety without proactively hunting down and engaging those who intend to kill as many of our countrymen and women as possible? How does one guarantee safety without actively engaging and tracking those who have every intention and all the funding necessary to procure a nuclear weapon? They are not seeking nuclear weapons as a means of mutually assured destruction, I.E. Defense. They are seeking these weapons with no other intent than to detonate them on Western European and U.S. American soil.

I can agree that our preemptive doctrine with regards to military force is seemingly unnecessary and in many cases backfires, but it is a necessity in this day and age. We, among other nations, have learned our lessons the hard way. There is simply no way to guarantee "homeland security" from the homeland anymore. EVERY CIVILIZED NATION participates in global intelligence gathering and preemptive military actions. I will give you $1000 if you can give me a nation who does not.

Saw you are from the UK, do you find your own nation exempt from any of this? If so, take me to fairytale land with you.

edit on 11-8-2011 by ateuprto because: (no reason given)

Ateuprto - Thank you for your excellent responses - from an American who has been there. They just grow better as this thread progresses. You are correct and well written, with a handle on history and diplomacy. I felt a sinking feeling myself while seated overseas in a Command post just prior to shock and awe. I read the intellegence guide to the Anthropology of the region and felt we will never get through here - we are at a loss to understand the culture, the tribal culture.

We are misdirected in our approach sometimes. First we want to move beyond the threat of our own safety being jepardized. Then we think the world wants and deserves a better quality of life - just as we continue to seek that dream ourselves. We live at the high end of Maslows theory and can't quite comprehend those areas of the world that insist on, bring upon themselves the inablity to live beyond basic needs in a sometimes a brutal way. Tribal cultures will fight and exterminate to the last man, woman or child standing with no discrimination - yet they cry foul as we try and stop this madness.

China concerns me. Another save face culture. Those that think we are evil, will be in for quite a shock if they pray too hard for our demise. I am hopeful that there is truth that China's economy is not so strong as they display - and in their need to keep the peace with us for economic reasons. Unfortunately we will not hear about starving Chinese - but certainly we all hear about "struggling Americans" who's poverty level is truely not one of abject suffering. I hate to get all hippy - but really, I am tired and truely wish we could all just live in peace. Take care of each other and behave as good stewards to our Planet. Perhaps because I am older, a mom now, and a Veteran of War myself - I am truely weary of all this fight in our World.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

America happens to be a democracy and a beacon of freedom and justice... therefore it gets to keep its war machines.

Justice? in the US? is this a joke?

Those Chinese carriers are being built to keep India's eyes off of the northern frontier, once the Chinks have the three to four carriers they need, they will start to nibble at the China/India border, so as the keep the western worlds eyes off of the Chinese march westwards, The Chinese are already invading Africa, building east/West railroads and heavy duty roads, sea ports.

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Originally posted by Darkblade71
I can understand the US Gov. asking why,
I don't think anyone said "You can't have this"

China is quickly becoming a super-power, They are not there yet, but they will be.
Once the USA deems them as a credible threat, we will enter another cold war.

Although really, a cold war is already going on if you ask me, which you didn't.

The one thing I DO like about China is the fact that on the global scene, they seem to use a lot of common sense, I'm glad someone does.

You want a cold war with the very people that companies are running to and you are buying all your stuff from?

That would not be a wise move, if you have a cold war with China you will go to hell in a hand basket very very quickly.

I don't want a war with anyone, just saying that is what I see happening.
Personally, I think we should completely stop trade with China and go back to Made in the USA, because China is killing us already with cheap products that could very well be made here, although not as cheaply. If I was able to, I would completely boycott Wal-mart, and all Chinese made products, unfortunately, I cannot.

I'm surprised the Chinese not have the technology to construct aircraft carriers from scratch. Why do they have to buy old Russian ships and refit them? Is the technology that advanced? The Varyag sounds like a bargain at $20 million!

Originally posted by Darkblade71

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Originally posted by Darkblade71
I can understand the US Gov. asking why,
I don't think anyone said "You can't have this"

China is quickly becoming a super-power, They are not there yet, but they will be.
Once the USA deems them as a credible threat, we will enter another cold war.

Although really, a cold war is already going on if you ask me, which you didn't.

The one thing I DO like about China is the fact that on the global scene, they seem to use a lot of common sense, I'm glad someone does.

You want a cold war with the very people that companies are running to and you are buying all your stuff from?

That would not be a wise move, if you have a cold war with China you will go to hell in a hand basket very very quickly.

I don't want a war with anyone, just saying that is what I see happening.
Personally, I think we should completely stop trade with China and go back to Made in the USA, because China is killing us already with cheap products that could very well be made here, although not as cheaply. If I was able to, I would completely boycott Wal-mart, and all Chinese made products, unfortunately, I cannot.

Dillusional again

Cheap products (price wise) will never be made in the USA because you all expect to be paid BIG SALLARIES! to live in BIG HOUSES to drive BIG CARS that guzzle BIG OIL!

That is partly what got you into this mess in the first place.

reply to post by ateuprto


i hate to tell you but you should do your reaserch also. chinese economy is growing at a 9% rate where us is like 1.5%. yes the poor are realy poor there but they are booming.

reply to post by ruffrider


$20 million was a steal.

Just one of our carrier based fighters, like the F/A-18 Hornet, can cost over $50 million.

Thankfully, a kinetic penetrator carrier killer fired from a sea based railgun from over 200 miles away will only put us back less than $10,000.

I Really do find this Disgusting...

I find ATS'ers justifying it as "a general enquirey" or "reasonable question" even more disgusting....

Its like this... the US has no rights to medle in the affairs of other countries unless asked by said coutry... period.

thats is the be all and end all, i like the US i visit from time to time, i even work for/with a US company i have no issues with the american people...

except those who feel the need to justify totally out of order actions!
if you (US) were asked to justify the need for a carrier by china or russia it would be all tell them we dont need to justify, or any more of that and we should carpet bomb them USA USA USA...

it really makes me sick somtimes...


Black and white... your country is in #
you have no right to question another countries motives for building a military especially one who is develping at quite a fast rate...and you doing so shows you have a genuine fear of what might occur next.




Just my thoughts