Our Troops do NOT Protect Our Freedom and We Should Stop Thanking Them for Doing So

reply to post by nunya13


So guilty by association? Obviously our politicians are crooked hence the Tea Party. It looks to me like WE ALL must get more politically involved to effect a positive change in the status quo.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by alpinestar
Soldiers are the brainwashed nuts and bolts of a huge killing machine being driven by old rich white guys.

...you can say the same of people who work for monsanto, boeing, ford, pharmacuetical companies, the sugar cartels, haliburton, the fast food industry - its a REALLY BIG list...

i can see what you mean about pharma and haliburton, but since when is ford, fast food and boeing a killing machine. or are you comparing car accident and heart attacks to war crimes, there apples and oranges.

As a serving member (not for USA), I can say that I respect your opinion on the matter however, being in the military isn't just about being patriot to your country it's also about having a job. Most of us don't spend countless hours on ATS or sites that may or may not tell the truth.

There are a lot of military personnel that serve their country not only because they love their country but it helps pay the bills. Many of us (me included) didn't know that our own governments were lying to us all, and the few of us that do now, can't quit the military because they go back to nothing. Many spend 10, 15, 20, 30 years in the mob trying to make a living and hoping it is not your turn to die in operation.

The military world wide was meant to serve and protect, protect our rights, protect our freedom. When we are deployed we aren't told the specifics, the details of the operation and most definitely we aren't told as to why we are there, we just know we have a job to do.

Could you imagine what especially the USA would do if all the military turn on their government? You would have other countries trying to invade and take advantage of such vulnerability. Who do you think would protect a country in despair? Obviously not you!

We have a job to do, just like many are sacrificing their lives right now for you to have freedom of speech! If you aren't willing to sacrifice your own life to protect your loved ones, then let the rest of us (Serving Members) do it for you!


Enough Said!

Ok I'll give this one a shot.
Why I feel the need to post here:

--4 years in United States Marine Corps
--2 Combat tours in Iraq
--Lots of people shot at me/tried to blow me up
--I shot at some of them
--Active Member of Iraq Veterans Against the War
--I have horrible Nightmares every, single night about the war
--PTSD, anxiety, depression, etc
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I feel I have some experience and knowledge to contribute to the discussion without simply agreeing/disagreeing with or flaming the OP.

Firstly I have some problems with the article referenced in the OP.

As a matter of fact, they are more likely to turn their weapons on you than they are to defend your Constitutional rights.

I'm not sure about the validity of this statement. I don't personally know a single service member who would be likely to fire on a US citizen rather than defend Constitutional rights. Sure it happens.
Gunman kills 12, wounds 31 at Fort Hood
But let's face it, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was in cahoots with Al Qaeda. And of the millions of vets/active duty in this country, how many have committed an act like Maj Hasan? So yeah it happens but I wouldn't say troops are more likely to fire on fellow citizens than protect them.

The US military, not once but twice, committed the single largest mass murders in history by dropping nuclear weapons on civilian populations, including of course, on women and children. Say what you want about how it helped end the war....the bottom line is the US could have exploded these devices over uninhabited territory with the same effect of scaring the heck out of the Japanese. But they followed orders that were lies and murdered almost 300,000 people, without question. As a human being I find it hard to honor such “patriotism.”

The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki while tragic, were Not the single largest mass murders in history.
Nazi Party, Germany-6,000,000
Pol Pot, Cambodia-1,700,000–2,500,000
Rawandan Genocide, Rawanda-800,000
Hiroshima/Nagaskai, Japan-300,000

Yeah those two bombs dropped by the US killed a lot of people, but I feel like the article leaves a lot of history out just to make a point.

Second-
Your problem seems to be with the reverence the US military receives for fighting in unjust wars. I get it. But We don't want to be revered.
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We're doing a job. It's not our fault everyone needs a hero to thank, or that they do that by putting ribbons everywhere. If you want to blame someone for revering us too much, blame those doing the revering, and those making a killing of these stupid magnets.
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I enlisted at the ripe old age of 18. 10 years ago this month to be exact. (wowee time flies) At that age I didn't know anything about politics, world events, human rights, or really even who I was. Fast forward 4 years and 2 fantastic wars and I can say I'm a much better person despite, no not despite, because of of my experiences in war. I've been in protest marches, spoken about my experiences in front of thousands of people, written essays, written congressmen, volunteered at the VA hospital, all kinds of stuff I never would have the courage/knowledge to do had I not enlisted. I would never have known, really known, why war is so terrible. I think, for some people, it takes first hand knowledge to really make a difference in how you think.

It's not easy to stand up to your superiors in the military, even when you know something isn't right. Want to know what I got for asking my CO why we had to go to Iraq? 30 days restriction in the barracks, unable to be with my wife, and half my pay docked for a month.

And let's not forget about PFC Bradley Manning, who brought us WIkileaks-a site I'm sure most of us are familiar with.
www.bradleymanning.org...
Marines’ found they mistreated Manning at Quantico brig, then tried to hide the report
This is what happens when you don't wait till you're out of the military before you start speaking against it.

Since I've been out I've devoted most of my free time to bringing our troops home. But we're up against pretty powerful people. I'm just saying-don't blame us man. We're doing the best we can in a messed up world. Just because some of us have killed people doesn't mean we're cold blooded murderers hell-bent on world destruction. I know that sounds weird, but it's the truth!

Originally posted by Common Scarecrow
reply to post by cosmicexplorer

 

I have known a couple of local cops since we were kids together and one of the main reasons they can't wait to retire is because the guys coming in now all seem to have an authority complex about the job. They can't wait to throw their weight around. Your experience might be 20%. I see it being much higher. Even at 20%, 20% is 20% too high.

With the technology we have today there is no need to have military bases all around the world. That is an old mentality. When they can control cruise missiles in Afghanistan from Florida, there is no need to put Americans in harms way.

ya mate i fear it could be higher in some towns......where I work it is very competitive and most of the guys we hire have years of experience....but i agree 20% is too high...its just the nature of authority...it is going to attract a few people for the wrong reasons....

I disagree with the military bases though....we still do need them for logistics....here is small example why that may seem silly but its a true story i heard.....during the first gulf war when we were initially going over we didn't have all vehicles we needed for transportation. so the kuwaitis agreed to help us out..on one condition...we paid them to use their buses. I found that funny since we were there to defend them, but a business man is a business man. So we spent lots of money to use their resources. It probably wasn't that big of a deal but you know there were so many more people doing the same thing. That adds costs to the war, and you need boots on the ground if you are invading and doing force protection. We can definitely fight wars and hit vital targets from afar, but I can't think of a true conflict that doesn't have atleast intel and spec ops on the ground.

But there are some places we shouldn't be.

seems to me the only people who have problems with the us military

was the communists,,fascists,marxists,radical islamic extremists and liberals.

suddenly this thread makes so much sense to me.

reply to post by semperkill


Hear yourself. We are citizens...you are civilians. Your anger is very telling. You "selflessly" fight for our "freedom" and then get angry for people exercising it. Egos...self identification...I am a MARINE and you are not...I kill people (compassionately). You are a child who is strongly identified with his choices in life...nobody wants say they were wrong. You were... but you were lied to so I forgive you.

In an effort to dissent as the op's story suggests, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL THE MEN AND WOMEN OF ATS WHO HAVE HONORABLY SERVED OUR BELOVED UNITED STATES OF AMERICA !!

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by milkyway12
Yeah im unwilling to exert energy , because until you stand up and change the people giving the orders then you must approve of it. So we follow them. If you dont like it , do something about it , not my job.

I agree with the op in many ways.

But you point is extremely valid.

We (the masses) allow our politicians to use our military for the corporate agenda.

Our tax money pays for the weapons.

We are just as responsible as those that join the military.

They really are just trying to do the right thing (most of them).

as i stated in one of my earlier post, mine and everyone's taxes are stolen from us. most are taking automaticly before we get our paycheck, even if they were'nt we would be jailed for not paying on our own. simpliy put, we have no choice but to pay and only a vote to make the choice as to how they are spent, and voting is a joke in of it's self and a whole nother topic.

reply to post by minesweeper


Ummm....Boeing makes aircraft and a lot of other stuff for the military. They supply the military with equipment. Their entire business model depends on a constant state of war.

OP,

I'm a soldier and I can tell you this with a 100% certainty;

The moment my fellow soldiers put their weapons at the US population, I will turn my weapon on them.

When you think about it, the very presence of our military around the world acts as a deterrent from invasion by other countries. If we woke up and had no military tomorrow, we would be speaking Chinese/Korean and signing songs about communism by 2020. So yeah they are protecting your freedom in a very indirect way.

God I hate these post.

First off I've spent 14 years in the Army as a combat soldier, and have deployed numerous times. I do not consider myself a hero nor do I want to be called one. I have been wounded in combat twice, and lost 14 friends to war.

Second I am not some poor idiot from the hood like the military is portrayed. I had a 4.0 in high school and earned a scholarship to Ohio State. I come from a upper middle class family that is by no means hurting. I chose to join the military out of love for my country.

I can feely think on my own, and realize that the government has lied to the military over the reasons for the wars. You say, why dont you stand up and fight against the government? Do you realize what that would cause in civil unrest, needless deaths on both sides, and absolute disaster for the US. My question, what have you done? Is that your means of fighting the government, sitting behind a computer trying to question why others are not doing what you fail to do yourself?

Do not attempt to pretend you know what goes thru a soldiers mind, as I dont pretend that I can fathom what goes thru an egotiscal jerks mind sitting behind a computer. We are not all zombies that go around murdering people for giggles. I have been involved in numerous ambushes and assaults, and I can guarentee that no innocent person was murdered. You would be surpirsed how many insurgents are from Iran and various other hostile nations, and attack when we are trying to help the people of those countries as they dont want the freedom they have now succeed.

Here is a few points that I am glad I was involved with Iraq. The people of Iraq are now not subject to various tortures for doing what you are here. You have not seen what Ive seen. Saddam had a room with a special ceiling fan type device with counter balance so people could be hung from and swung around the room. The bats with blood still on them tells the story of what happened after that. Second we captured video footage from Saddams palace outside of BIAP (Baghdad Airport) that showed Kurds being strapped with explosive braclets and walked out into the desert. One by one they had there extremeties blown off just because they were Kurds. Saddam and Uday laughed as those poor souls bleed to death, a slow painful death due the fact that the explosives cauterize wounds due to the heat.

I only consider one person a hero. That is my buddy that gave his life trying to save our friends life as we were ambushed opening one of the first female schools in Baghdad. I know, god how can the military do something so evil as opening a female school. I mean, we deserved that ambush didn't we. I probably should be held for war crimes for that, and I guess that evilness is the reason they chose to ambush us.

And finally, yes if there is a civil unrest and you point your weapon at me, yeah duh, I'm going to shoot you. Pointing weapons is a form of agression and I'm not really one that likes to get shot. Now I swore to protect the Constitution first. Americans have the right to demostrate against the government. I would not open fire for a demonstration. I would open fire if you threatened my soldiers, innocent families, or my safety. Just as I would expect you to shoot at me if I threatened you or your families safety. As I said, we are Americans, not zombies. You make it seem like it would be so easy for soldiers to open fire on American civilians. As soon as that first shot is fired, every soldier would be aware that the American way of life is no more.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by minesweeper

 

Ummm....Boeing makes aircraft and a lot of other stuff for the military. They supply the military with equipment. Their entire business model depends on a constant state of war.

your right i was thinking of the civillian aspect of there company when writing, but please answer for the others as well or i still call fail.

reply to post by Section31


Like I said man freedom of speech. Free country. and all that. We are far from perfect. These people are scared they sit in their homes and have all these opinions and scream and yell about freedom. I realized something. I have yet to see a group that has the balls to even try to overthrow the goverment. The constitution says you are allowed to throw them out by force if need be. So why hasnt it happened? Why are you still whining? I tell you wh.y

1. Not organized enough.
2. Wouldnt know what to do if they succeeded.
3. No balls.
4. I dare you.
If you dont like you have 3 choices

1. GET OUT OF AMERICA
2. OVERTHROW THE GOVERMENT
3. STOP ATTACKING THE TROOPS

reply to post by neo96


I behoove you to just ONCE come into thread and make a valid argument about why you disagree. All you ever do is throw around rhetorical statements and labels. Just saying, "You must be a liberal/commie/marxist because i disagree with you" does not contribute to the thread.

reply to post by wcitizen


"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,"
Evelyn Beatrice Hall

I served my country with pride. I went where I was told and shot the guys shooting at me. I came home and have a safe place for my beautiful family because some other soldier has taken my place and is also serving with pride.

I do not need your thanks or your understanding. There are several million Vets right now in the US who understand that self-sacrifice in defense of those who would shun you and question your service, is the most noble of pursuits.

Your safe ability to question the motives of the military is being paid for in blood every day.

The power to complain about the government and it's tactics, in an open forum, is denied to many populations of the world.

reply to post by semperkill


So are you saying we have good reason to overthrow the government?