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Originally posted by summer5
My two teen-age girls traveled by the airlines to visit their dad last month. I was worried about the check point. Luckily, neither coming or going was an issue. No scanners, no pat down, just the walk through the metal detector. What a relief. I don't think I would have been one happy parent had they wanted to pat the girls down. If they had the scanners, I wasn't to keen on that idea either. This time, neither was an issue - luckily.
Originally posted by k21968
reply to post by Vitchilo
If she didnt want her daughter's crotch grabbed then she should have let her walk through the x-ray plain and simple. There is a fine line between standing up for something you believe in and being ridiculous. Seriously folks, I am sure if TSA wanted to grab someone's crotch for pleasure they would've chosen someone more appropriate like a 17 yr old hottie in daisy dukes. I seriously doubt a pat down consists of grabbing a crotch unless they feel something. My husband was a cop for 22 yrs. He has patted down hundreds of people and not once did he ever do it for pleasure. Get real...this is ridiculous..
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Oh, really? Where does it state, when you buy a ticket to fly, that you are waiving your rights? Oh, yeah, it doesn't. That's the biggest CROCK I ever heard.
American Airlines
ACCEPTANCE OF PASSENGERS
American may refuse to transport you, or may remove you from your flight at any point, for one or several reasons, including but not limited to the following:
Compliance with government requisition of space.
Action necessary or advisable due to weather, or other conditions beyond American's control.
Refusal to permit a search of person or property for explosives or for deadly, controlled, or dangerous weapons, articles or substances.
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Simply choosing a form of transportation does NOT mean you voluntarily waive your Constitutional rights.
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Not happening. Not myself, not my kids. Some jerk tries that with one of mine, would be more than yelling they had to deal with.
Originally posted by SFA437
Just to clarify my position-
The TSA are the singular most incompetent, useless, worthless and nonsensical branch of the FedGod that has ever inhabited our fevered nightmares. They need to go and go NOW.
I am just pointing out that the 4th Amendment does not apply to voluntary searches related to partaking in voluntary activities.
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
The point that you seem to be missing is that choosing an activity does NOT mean you choose a search. That's the point. Deciding to take a plane doesn't mean you automatically lose your rights.
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
That doesn't give them probably cause.
Originally posted by backinblack
If I say to you "Hey I'll pay your mortgage if you do XXXX" and you decide to do it- that is not blackmail. That is a commercial agreement.
That's BS..
If the Fed was funding these airlines in the past and then suddenly say "Agree to these new conditions or the funding stops", I call that blackmail..
Originally posted by Bixxi3
reply to post by Vitchilo
she knew what she was getting in too. If you refuse the body scanners then you get a pat down. Im not saying itsw right but when you buy that ticket your agreeing with the security measures of the airport.
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
WRONG. In this country, we have a Constitutional right to NO illegal search and seizure of or persons or our property.
Originally posted by SFA437If you give consent to the search it is NOT illegal (and nobody is seized by the TSA- they have no arrest power)
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
These TSA procedures violate that right in SO many ways.
Originally posted by SFA437No they do not.
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Choosing to fly does NOT means one surrenders rights.
Originally posted by SFA437This is correct. Purchasing a commercial airline ticket and securing your boarding pass shows intent to waive your 4th Amendment rights. The airline demands a waiver of your 4th Amendment rights and submission to a search in exchange for a seat on their airplane and they are well within THEIR rights to do so.
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Not to mention, some don't HAVE a choice. How about military families, who become stationed overseas? They have to fly to get there, so under these fascist policies, they are subjected to being irradiated, or groped? NO WAY that is right.
Originally posted by SFA437I have yet to see someone marched to an airport at gunpoint and being forced through the TSA checkpoint under threat of death so in reality people DO have a choice.
Military families may fly MAC / Space A and not even have to deal with civilian aircraft at all or even leave the military base's perimeter.
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
NO ONE should put up with this. If every single person flying STOPPED, that had ANY option other than flying, the airports would lose so much money that they would demand the TSA stop this BS.
Originally posted by SFA437For that bit you got a star!
Originally posted by SFA437
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
The point that you seem to be missing is that choosing an activity does NOT mean you choose a search. That's the point. Deciding to take a plane doesn't mean you automatically lose your rights.
The point you seem to be missing is.... Yes. It. Does. Choosing to fly DOES mean you consent to a search. That is the point. Deciding to take a plane means that you are contractually bound to the airline to a search prior to boarding the aircraft and every damned US commercial carrier states this in the contract of carriage. Why the hell is this so hard for you to grasp?????
Continental Contract of Carriage
See Page 18
American Airlines Contract of Carriage
See Acceptance of Passengers
Delta Conditions of Carriage
See Page 10
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
That doesn't give them probably cause.
It is probable cause and they do not need it BECAUSE YOU GIVE CONSENT ACCORDING TO THE CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE CONTRACT!
edit on 14-7-2011 by SFA437 because: (no reason given)
Oh, really? Where does it state, when you buy a ticket to fly, that you are waiving your rights?
RULE 25 REFUSAL TO TRANSPORT
Delta may refuse to transport any passenger, and may remove any passenger from its aircraft at any time,
for any of the following reasons:
A. Government Request Or Regulations
Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulations, directives, or
instructions; or to comply with any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection
with the national defense, or whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather
or other conditions beyond its control (including but without limitation, acts of God, force majeure,
strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities or disturbances) actual, threatened or
reported.
B. Search Of Passenger Or Property
When a passenger refuses to permit search of his person or property for explosives, weapons,
dangerous materials, or other prohibited items.
We must decide whether a prospective commercial airline passenger, who presented no identification at check-in, and who voluntarily walked through a metal detector without setting off an alarm, can then prevent a government-ordered secondary screening search by stating he has decided not to fly and wants to leave the terminal. We hold that such passenger cannot prevent the secondary search because such search comports with the Fourth Amendment's requirement that a search be reasonable where, as here, the initial screening was “inconclusive” as defined in Torbet v. United Airlines, 298 F.3d 1087, 1089-90 (9th Cir.2002). We need not and therefore do not decide whether the same would be true were the secondary screening more intrusive or were it triggered by the subjective evaluation of the prospective passenger by airline or security personnel rather than more objective criteria such as a screening machine alarm being triggered, random selection, or, as here, the prospective passenger's failure to present identification upon checking in.
Originally posted by Bixxi3
reply to post by Vitchilo
she knew what she was getting in too. If you refuse the body scanners then you get a pat down. Im not saying itsw right but when you buy that ticket your agreeing with the security measures of the airport.