Why Atheism is being promoted by TPTB, page 3

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reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 05:46 PM by BiggyMcBigPants

reply to post by spyder550

Agreed. And then consider that christians can do pretty much anything they want to and ask for forgiveness on their deathbed and get into heaven. Honestly, I think I took the wrong approach to my former religion!

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 05:46 PM by thirst4knowledge

reply to post by megabytz

I always like too ask christians, and whatever other faith, why do you need the threat of hell to be good? I am not scared of what is to come, I don't think I will be judged (spelling) I like to be good cos it makes people like you. I bet you make more friends walking into a room being nice thane been religious.

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 05:50 PM by randyvs

reply to post by megabytz

Wrong and purely speculative. You don't have any evidence for your accusations. You sound a lil bias even. Spouting off about lies, when you absolutly live one as an atheist.

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 05:55 PM by megabytz

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by Annee

If TPTB are pushing anything. It would be organized religion.

Its far easier to control someone who is already being controlled.

Not true, and it is demonstrable from history. Simply take a look at totalitarian regimes like the USSR, Communist China, North Korea. One of the very first thing these regimes do is eradicate religion, specifically Christianity. Why?
Because, Christian answer to a higher authority than the state. In the first century Christians were martyred for not worshiping the Roman emperor. Christians are killed and persecuted in Korea and China today for not being loyal to the state cult. TPTB always promote atheism.

Stalin made tearing down the churches and imprisoning the pastors one of his top priorities:

YouTube Link

This is one of the most dishonest arguments presented by the religious. To say they committed these acts because of atheism is dishonest and deplorable.

North Korea is a religious country. They created their own religion and live that religion every single day. Hell their supreme leader is a dead man.

TPTB do not always promote atheism. You cannot promote a lack of belief. You can't force someone not to believe in god. Do you see much atheism in Iran? What about Syria? Lebanon? Religion has been used to control the masses throughout history.

Stalin reinstated the church after WW2. The only reason he got rid of it because he saw it as an affront to his own personal religion. The cult of personality. And they did not just pick on christianity.

These men did not commit their crimes because they were atheists. It was not a lack of a personal god that caused it.

If secularism causes crimes like this we would see it all over the Nordic countries, yet we don't. We see some of the most advanced and successful countries on the planet.

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 05:55 PM by thirst4knowledge

I went to a church school. I will be a godparent at a christening for the second time in a month, I have not got anyting against anyone religious, as long as its not forced upon me.I just really can't get the point that if you are athiest that you arent a good person.

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 05:58 PM by megabytz

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by megabytz

Wrong and purely speculative. You don't have any evidence for your accusations. You sound a lil bias even. Spouting off about lies, when you absolutly live one as an atheist.

Please demonstrate how it is purely speculative?

If you are referring to people being easy to control when given a religion, have you been asleep the past ten years? Young children strapping on bombs because they are told god will be waiting for them. The church telling people sex is terrible outside of marriage because god says so. The church taking in massive amounts of tithes because the bible says so. People will do many things in the name of their religion, especially if they think god wants them to. All the leaders of religion have to do is say exactly that, 'this is declared by god'

Have you learned some big words debating atheists on the forums now?

I have been a christian and I am an atheist now. I have seen the things Christians do all the time. Not just in my church but working with pastors and churches all over the country.

I don't even know why I am dealing with you. People have warned me that it is impossible to have an intellectually honest conversation with you.

edit on 8-7-2011 by megabytz because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 06:05 PM by randyvs

Originally posted by thirst4knowledge
I went to a church school. I will be a godparent at a christening for the second time in a month, I have not got anyting against anyone religious, as long as its not forced upon me.I just really can't get the point that if you are athiest that you arent a good person.

I have never said such a thing. First of all it's judgemental. Second the opposite is obvious. Good and bad are never
catagorised in such manner although there are those that try.

edit on 8-7-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

MEGA

Have you learned some big words debating atheists on the forums now?

What big word?

edit on 8-7-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 06:09 PM by thirst4knowledge

So, I am a good person. I dont believe in religion, where will I end up?

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 06:17 PM by randyvs

Originally posted by thirst4knowledge
So, I am a good person. I dont believe in religion, where will I end up?

If you don't believe in religion ? It most likely won't be a church, that's about all I can say for sure. In this life I suppose you will end up where your heart wants you to be. A lil tip, I don't believe in religion either. Prolly less than any of you.

Mega
I already did demonstrate..

Spouting off about lies, when you absolutly live one as an atheist.

edit on 8-7-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

I don't even know why I am dealing with you. People have warned me that it is impossible to have an intellectually honest conversation with you.

Well perhaps you listen to the wrong people ? Or maybe there are no wrong people ? Or maybe you listen to those who try to demoralise with intellectual insults ?. If that's not to big a word for you ? ie
More than likely you speak to those who have found out I don't play the timid part. If they could speak without being condescending and without insult ? There would have never been a problem. I'm sure .

edit on 8-7-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 06:38 PM by gabby2011

reply to post by Regenstorm

Atheism is a "all Clear"-Sign for taking no responsibility for "your" actions. It's a free ticket for egoism, narcissism, cheating, lying, violence, vulgarity and indecent behavior. Because according to atheists there is no life after death, it's just this one time that you are here. So "you" want to have as much fun as possible regardless of the consequences for the rest of the world/people. Right?

hmmm??..really ? I think many atheists have their own moral code of conduct , and are quite willing to take full responsibility for their actions. Maybe they are not all about having fun. You could accuse a christian of the same...a christian depends on the sacrifice of another human to erase their sins..they do not take full accountability for righting the wrongs they have done??

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 06:49 PM by gabby2011

Originally posted by thirst4knowledge
reply to post by randyvs

Even Jesus liked his wine!

the only place in the bible that mentions Jesus and wine is when he transformed water into wine at a wedding, and that was at his mothers request. It does not mention him once drinking it, and enjoying it.(not that he didn't drink some, it was considered a stomach remedy as well)

Sorry ,but it bothers me when people misinterpret that verse to mean that Jesus loved his wine....the book already has enough seemingly contradictory statements in it, please don't make up more to add to the confusion.

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 06:52 PM by Annee

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Not true, and it is demonstrable from history. Simply take a look at totalitarian regimes like the USSR, Communist China, North Korea.

Not buying it.

The past does not always reflect the present.

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 07:01 PM by Blue_Jay33

As to an Atheists moral code I think each one is unique, they set there own standards based on their own personal conscience. So what that means is that if an atheist has a strong conscience that really bothers them when they do wrong, for example steal, or cheat on their spouse, then most likely they will be a good person or develop into one.
But what if an atheist has a deeply damaged psychological personality, that nothing bothers their conscience, what stops them from doing evil and hurtful deeds, or eventually developing into a really bad person ?

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 07:10 PM by iterationzero

reply to post by Regenstorm

The word you're dancing around without saying is "empathy". You require a supreme being watching over you to make sure you do "the right thing". I don't. I act in a moral way out of a sense of empathy for my fellow man. To make the statement that atheists lack empathy is as laughable as it is bigoted.

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 07:10 PM by Annee

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

But what if an atheist has a deeply damaged psychological personality, that nothing bothers their conscience, what stops them from doing evil and hurtful deeds, or eventually developing into a really bad person ?

Same as any individual claiming to be a God believer.

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 07:18 PM by iterationzero

reply to post by chrismicha77

You don't have to be religious to believe in a creator.

No, but you do have to be theistic.

Why deny yourself hope, of never again for all eternity, of having some form of life or consciousness beyond this?

Why should I rely on a hope of an afterlife to regulate my actions in this life? My morality comes from empathy I feel for my fellow man, not from a deity looking over my shoulder and promising reward if I'm good and punishment if I'm naughty.

I've never understood Atheism and the belief of "this is it" to life. Why are we here then?

That's a question every person must answer for themselves. Yours involved a deity, mine doesn't. I don't begrudge you your faith, why must you begrudge me my lack of faith?

I DON'T believe, me being me is just a big accident.

If a serendipitous even happens, should you cherish it more or less than something that was planned?

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 07:21 PM by randyvs

"Then I learned that all moral judgments are ‘value judgments,’ that all value judgments are subjective [it just depends on how you think about them], and that none can be proved to be either ‘right’ or ‘wrong’…I discovered that to become truly free, truly unfettered, I had to become truly uninhibited. And I quickly discovered that the greatest obstacle to my freedom, the greatest block and limitation to it, consists in the insupportable “value judgment that I was bound to respect the rights of others. I asked myself, who were these ‘others?’ Other human beings with human rights? Why is it more wrong to kill a human animal than any other animal, a pig or a sheep or a steer? Is your life more to you than a hog’s life to a hog? Why should I be willing to sacrifice my pleasure more for the one than for the other? Surely, you would not, in this age of scientific enlightenment, declare that God or nature has marked some pleasures as ‘moral’ or ‘good’ and others as ‘immoral’ or ‘bad’? In any case, let me assure you, my dear young lady, that there is absolutely no comparison between the pleasure I might take in eating ham and the pleasure I anticipate in raping and murdering you. That is the honest conclusion to which my education has led me – after the most conscientious examination of my spontaneous and uninhibited self.”

Ted Bundy

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 07:22 PM by iterationzero

reply to post by Bigwhammy

While you may feel the need to be an apologist for the OP, he's pretty clear in his assertion that atheism leads to a "rotten" society as a function of the lack of moral code in atheists.

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 07:27 PM by iterationzero

reply to post by Mr Mask

Every action that you describe as being potentially committed by an atheist because of a lack of moral code has been committed by a theist in the name of their own version of God at some point. Atheists are no more or less moral than theists, their morality just stems from empathy for their fellow man. It's not better, it's not worse, it's just different.

reply posted on 8-7-2011 @ 07:35 PM by iterationzero

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

As to an Atheists moral code I think each one is unique, they set there own standards based on their own personal conscience. So what that means is that if an atheist has a strong conscience that really bothers them when they do wrong, for example steal, or cheat on their spouse, then most likely they will be a good person or develop into one.

Thanks for recognizing that atheists can be good people.

But what if an atheist has a deeply damaged psychological personality, that nothing bothers their conscience, what stops them from doing evil and hurtful deeds, or eventually developing into a really bad person ?

Is this any different than some theists who believe their God instructs them to do something that others would find "evil and hurtful"? Understand that I don't think all, or even most, or even many for that matter, theists do these things. But I don't think you can deny that there are people of damaged psyche out there that believe God is telling them to do things that most other theists (and atheists for that matter) would find reprehensible.