Question about Eastern Star

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posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Why is the Medal of Honour an inverted pentagram?
Why is the USA police force using an inverted pentagram as a badge?

Why are you now denying that the inverted pentagram is in fact Baphomets Sigil? (Without the goat head off course.)
The two upward points = represents all that is opposite (i.e. man/woman, black/white, night/day and good/evil etc.)
The 3 other points = represents the denial of the holy 3 (i.e. the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost.)

I would like to point out that this symbol is the same with or without the goat head; it is also widely known that the real pentagram is a Sigil of protection versus evil, and if you turn the pentagram you are actually summoning evil spirits.
About Venus it is a representation of the male genitals or another name for Lucifer, all this is fact and it amuses me to see you masons trying to deny this.

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

*this subliminal message was brought to you by the fire-drill instructors for a better tomorrow*

[edit on 12-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]



thankyou for your posts, it is a shame that they lock/kill your threads, i think your posts are very intellectual and they dont like this!.

[edit on 12-8-2004 by ThePunisher]




posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 07:35 PM
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yes the correct way to use the pentegram is upright.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 07:42 PM
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There's been an informative linkabout pentagrams posted in this thread by Alex Kennedy. So where is your information sourced from?

Deny Ignorance = Affirm Knowledge.

edit - typo

[edit on 12/8/04 by Bastet]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 08:12 PM
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The dots are everywhere now. I feel I have become completely mad. One has appeared in this typing box as I am typing. I constantly taste metal. Pray for me.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 08:14 PM
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Have a look at this site:

www.canyonart.com...

Navajo sand painting, which is at least 500 years old, uses the symbol of the swastika to represent health and balance. Many other ancient cultures, including medieval European Christianity, used it to represent balance and order.

In the 1920's, the Nazis in Germany started using it as a symbol for their racist views.

Now, are the Navajo Antisemitic, because they still do sandpainting the way they have for centuries? Do you expect them to change, because some Germans were incredibly evil?

Maybe the problem here is not the Navajo, or the Eastern Star, but with the way you read YOUR OWN beliefs into other people's symbols.

I AM a mason. I have spent a long time studying masonry and its symbolism. There are great truths in Masonry, teaching that helps men act morally, that reinforce the teachings found in the Bible. Yes the Bible is at the center of Masonry. At the center of the Lodge. At the Center of the Eastern Star.

But narrow minded bigots are never happy with anyone's morality, except their own. I can picture Neonhelmet and Perez gladly leading a new inquisition.

No good tree bears evil fruit. How many hospitals have masons founded? How many orphanages? Public Secular Education is free in America largely because of masons advocating it. So, for which of its good works do you stone masonry?

Perez, Neonhelmet et al carry on about how they are defending Christianity. They are doing nothing at all for the cause of Christ. Not winning any souls. In truth, they drag the name of Christ through the mud, by hating others in his name, by claiming to be superior in their ignorance.

A sickening display.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
www.100megsfree4.com...

www.rdrop.com...

MMMmmmmm. what with the pentagon shape then?
[edit on 12-8-2004 by 7th_Chakra]



Perhaps it's in HOW we perceive a "symbol" "X" can be symbol for many things...poison...a pornographic movie....a location on a map...or the Greek letter "Chi" (and and abbreviation for Christ...) See? MANY meanings for the same symbol. So....here's a tid-bit that might clear it up. I've also heard that the star w/ one point down represented Christ sent to earth and with one point up represented Christ ascended to Heaven.

With that I offer the following gleanded from "There's No Sin In Symbols"


The Eastern Star uses the symbol of the five-pointed star. Usually, it's shown with one point down. People who don't understand symbols say some very ignorant things about it. One of the more [common] is that it stands for some kind of demon or for a goat.

Now of course, if they want to think of a devil or a goat when they see it, that's their business. But that's not what the Eastern Star uses the symbol to mean. They use it as a symbol of the star which guided the Wise Men to Bethlehem. The downward pointing ray represents the light of the star coming to the earth and also the birth of Jesus when He came down to earth from heaven.

Masons use the five-pointed star as a symbol, too. For Masons, the star is a symbol of Man, with the five points representing the head, the hands, and the feet. And, Scottish Rite Masons use the star to represent the blazing glory of God which fills the entire universe, and also that God reveals Himself to mankind through nature.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 08:41 PM
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Thank you Dr Strangecraft I like your reply it leads to some good debates, you are constructive in your reply and that is good.
Now this isnt a discussion on the Navajo or about the swastika, but yes what you say is true, the Vikings did indeed also use the swastika, we called it the sun Sigil, and it was a very powerful Sigil, I actually think Hitler stole it from Norse mythology but I am not sure, he could have reversed the roman swastika but still before I am bashed this is not a claim only something I think.
So you are a mason good for you if it makes you happy, you have already decided you view on this subject then nothing we write can change that.
You say that you are Christians, as are many of the so called lodges, and then you dont find it awkward that you are using a symbol that represents Lucifer or Satan?
Now you only think I am narrow minded you dont know that nor do you have proof of it?
Why would I lead an inquisition? Which leads to the next question why do you think I am defending Christianity? Which again leads to the final question why do you think I am Christian?
I am not claiming superiority but thank you!

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

Under capitalism, man exploits man.
Under communism, it's just the opposite.

[edit on 12-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 08:47 PM
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NeonHelmet,

After having read many of your posts in the last day or so, I have come to the conclusion that you make no sense.
Perhaps it is time to return to you little hobbitt hole, mmmmmmmmm?

_______
Out, out, damn red spots!!!

[edit on 12-8-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 08:54 PM
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Or as some were won't to say in my youth: Don't confuse me with facts, I have made up my mind!

Did nothing that he wrote get through to you except the hatred and spite in your heart? You hate masons because you hate masons... the lack of facts on your side, and your god given opinion, are enough to spit at the good men that make up this ancient and honorable fraternity...

Baphomet and the inverted star as a sigil of evil are NINETEENTH CENTURY INVENTIONS or sick and twisted minds, which have nothing to do with freemasons. I find it interesting that in the face of the facts provided by ZZZ that you only latched onto the small segment which seems to support your evil contentions, while ignoring all the rest which clearly destroyed your arguments.

NeonHelmet, you offer nothing but unsupported rhetoric and opinions without substantive (or even nonsubstantive) support. I find you to be little more than a troll, sniping and carping. If you have something other than ignorant opinons to offer, please, post them.

However, if all you are going to do is type indefensible ramblings and hate speech, I would recommend you to FW, where such maunderings and hate are de rigeur and acceptable.

But really, thanks for playing.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:06 PM
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(i see you mention figure head adolf) ww2 as created designed operated and funded by these groups (as it always is)

the order of the quest/the olympians/the illuminati/13 families/nwo/the council of 300/the black nobility(i.e. royalty)/zionism
skull and bones/freemasonary(the great white brotherhood lodge uk i.e. "THE WHITEHOUSE")/rosicurians/the knights templar/

[edit on 12-8-2004 by ThePunisher]

[edit on 12-8-2004 by ThePunisher]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by ThePunisher
(i see you mention figure head adolf) ww2 as created designed operated and funded by these groups (as it always is)
the order of the quest/the olympians/the illuminati/13 families/nwo/the council of 300/the black nobility/zionism
skull and bones/freemasonary/rosicurians/the knights templar


Uhmmm..... HUH???



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:15 PM
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Sweet!
Now I would like to say dont hate masons I do think you work for a common goal and that goal isnt good.
There is no place in my soul for hate, it is an evil feeling.
There is only one truth and that is love, I can say with an open heart that I love all humans on this earth, I consider some of you misguided but yes that is my opinion and I am allowed to express it.
Now you clearly dont read what I write I say that the inverted pentagram was evil before that it was and evil symbol used in the Norse mythology.
Now please stop throwing accusations about me hating masons that have no relevance or substance and it is you passing judgement on me. Not that you are not allowed to do so, but then dont clatter me for doing the same to you mate.
Donttreadonme ok fine then dont read my post, you have the option to not read them but I found your criticism very helpful thank you.

AGAIN TO MAKE A POINT I ONLY HAVE LOVE FOR HUMANS ALL HUMANS!

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

This world is only an illusion and we can change it any time we want, its just a choice right now between fear and love.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by NeonHelmet
AGAIN TO MAKE A POINT I ONLY HAVE LOVE FOR HUMANS ALL HUMANS!


Especially me, right? That's why you've told people on at least three separate occasions that I have "horns and a tail," and on two separate occasions have accused me of killing virgins.

With friends like you, who needs enemies?

[edit on 12-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:21 PM
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Theron, you are wrong about this: "Baphomet and the inverted star as a sigil of evil are NINETEENTH CENTURY INVENTIONS."

Wrong. The top point of an Upright Pentagram is the Spirit. The Pentagram had origins with Sumerians and then Wiccans. If you Put Everything else above the spirit that means you can care less about your spirit. This is why the Satanists adopted the symbol, because it shows exactly what they want people to do.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:23 PM
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Please keep the discussion civil, folks

There's some borderline accusations and namecalling... while the thread can continue, it really needs to be a mature discussion.

...and please credit your sources of information. Thanks.



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:26 PM
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Yes freind i have only love for you i have never hated a person why should i start with you?
Saying what i see isnt expressing my hate towards you, you fail to understand what hate is.
i can with a clear heart say i love you, as i love all others.

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

"There are mysteries which men can only guess at,
which age by age they may solve only in part."


[edit on 12-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Sweet!
Now I would like to say dont hate masons I do think you work for a common goal and that goal isnt good.

Really? Well, that is an interesting contention. Have you ANYTHING, at all, to support that argument? Or are we simply to accept that it is so because neonhelmet thinks it is so?

There is no place in my soul for hate, it is an evil feeling.
There is only one truth and that is love, I can say with an open heart that I love all humans on this earth, I consider some of you misguided but yes that is my opinion and I am allowed to express it.

Sure, you are allowed to express your thoughts, that is the essence of the American constitution, but among intelligent folks, one normally tries to support their opinions with rational facts not marsh gas.

Now you clearly dont read what I write I say that the inverted pentagram was evil before that it was and evil symbol used in the Norse mythology.

My friend, I never wrote ANYTHING about Norse mythology... are you sure you are on the right forum??


Now please stop throwing accusations about me hating masons that have no relevance or substance and it is you passing judgement on me. Not that you are not allowed to do so, but then dont clatter me for doing the same to you mate.

I wrote that your unsupported maunderings are hatespeech. I do not think you have a clue what masons are, so you cannot possibly hate masons, since you do not know them.

AGAIN TO MAKE A POINT I ONLY HAVE LOVE FOR HUMANS ALL HUMANS!

Well, little buddy, take that ring off your finger, for you have a very strange way of showing your love for all humans... or perhaps you don't consider masons human?

You seem strangely proud of your ignorance. What is it about a lack of factual data points that makes you proud?



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Wrong. The top point of an Upright Pentagram is the Spirit.


Where are you getting that from?



The Pentagram had origins with Sumerians and then Wiccans.


At the risk of offending Wiccans (I don't intend to... some of my best friends are Wiccans), Wiccans are also a nineteenth-century invention. Here is a quote from no less of an authority than Silver Ravenwolf (whom I believe to be quite well--thought-of in the Wiccan community)



"Wicca, as you practice the religion today, is a new religion, barely fifty years old. The techniques you use at present are not entirely what your elders practiced even thirty years ago. Of course, threads of 'what was' weave through the tapestry of 'what is now.' ...in no way can we replicate to perfection the precise circumstances of environment, society, culture, religion and magick a hundred years ago, or a thousand. Why would we want to ? The idea is to go forward with the knowledge of the past, tempered by the tools of our own age."


As for the Sumerians, don't make me laugh. Unlike you (I strongly suspect), I actually have some (although very modest) grounding in the history and grounding of the mesopotamians. The thought that they made one of the points of the pentagram "spirit" and then said it was evil to put that point down is laughable. First of all, the religion of the Sumerians was mostly based on this, material, life. Human beings were considered to exist to serve the gods, full stop. There was an afterlife, but it was cold and dreary, as you can see from reading about Inanna's adventures in the realm of the dead. The "pure spirit" was about as far from the thoughts of a Sumerian as serving Marduk faithfully is from you.



If you Put Everything else above the spirit that means you can care less about your spirit.


That's absurd. That's like saying "D stands for Devil, so if you put a D at the beginning of your name (like Detective Perez) it means you're putting the Devil ahead of everyone else.

Besides that, it has already been explained why the Eastern Star has one ray pointin right down... it is supposed to depict the star which pointed the Magi to Jesus... it wouldn't do much good as a pointer if it had two rays pointing down, would it?



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:37 PM
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Theron Dunn:
It is you that have animosity against me; again this is not about what I think on masons but about the inverted pentagram, yes smell my marsh gas do you like it mmmmm it smells good doesnt it.
No friend I wrote about Norse mythology and the way the symbol has been used, through history.

Well perhaps it is you that have a different way in receiving love!

To the data you keep referring to do your own research why should I learn you something that has taking me so long to learn. *LOL* Try doing some of your own research before posting in here *ROFL*

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

"I can only show you the door.
You're the one that has to walk through it"

[edit on 12-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]



posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Hail NeonHelmet

Sweet!
Now I would like to say dont hate masons I do think you work for a common goal and that goal isnt good.
There is no place in my soul for hate, it is an evil feeling.
There is only one truth and that is love, I can say with an open heart that I love all humans on this earth, I consider some of you misguided but yes that is my opinion and I am allowed to express it.
Now you clearly dont read what I write I say that the inverted pentagram was evil before that it was and evil symbol used in the Norse mythology.
Now please stop throwing accusations about me hating masons that have no relevance or substance and it is you passing judgement on me. Not that you are not allowed to do so, but then dont clatter me for doing the same to you mate.
Donttreadonme ok fine then dont read my post, you have the option to not read them but I found your criticism very helpful thank you.

AGAIN TO MAKE A POINT I ONLY HAVE LOVE FOR HUMANS ALL HUMANS!

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

This world is only an illusion and we can change it any time we want, its just a choice right now between fear and love.


As I expected, this drama is a comedy, devoid of the merit and "character" development befitting a tragedian... just idle prattle in the cyber form of intemperance, fulfilling an impetuous need.

A thought, or two...





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