Question about Eastern Star

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
I have learned a lot from this. I have learned that I can make a society called Order of the Phallus, draw a symbol of a Phallus all over leaflets, buildings and clothes and then deny the Phallus having anything to do with sexuality.

Yes. That's an exact analogy, because the order of the Eastern Star is actually called the "Order of Satan," and there's a picture of Satan on their leaflets, buildings and clothes.

Nope. What happened is that you saw a sybol YOU chose to misinterpret, and your sick little mind decided it would be a great opportunity to beat up on some defenseless women. Good for you. You must feel like a real big man.

P.S. The proper analogy for this circumastance, DP, would be if there were a bunch of celery appreciators who had a flag with a stalk of celery on it, then some spiteful jerk decided that the celery looked a little too much like a phallus, so they all must be eeeeeeeevil.

[edit on 12-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
xian propeller be removed.

I like what you mean to say, but please don't call the cross an "xian propeller." Please. I didn't do anything to you, but I'm a Christian.

Cause the Inverted Pentagram isn't Satanic right?

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Cause the Inverted Pentagram isn't Satanic right?

It's a symbol. It refers to the fact that the Order of the Eastern Star has five exemplars... four from the Bible, and one purely symbolic one, a woman who I believe is known is "Fidelitas" or something along those lines. And, no, no symbol is "Satanic." ACTIONS (like your intolerance and hatred) are Satanic.

[edit on 12-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]

You are doing the exact same thing right back to me. I admit for having a deep rooted feeling against people who embrace the Inverted pentagram. You bite at my heels with your symbols so I crush your head. Simple as that. You Know what? I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. I apologize but I still believe Masonry is wrong. The reason why I care so much is because I love each and every one of you. I forgot that momentarily. I am sorry if I get upset, I am just trying really hard to help people out.

[edit on 12-8-2004 by DetectivePerez]

DetectivePerez
Now a little bit of insight for you. You believe in "God" correct. Ok thats fine, I dont, I believe in some type of supreme being, but not "God" as I was taught in catholic school when I was a kid, sorry I could not by into something that to me felt like a well written novel. I have one question for you, If you believe that all secret societies is the work of the devil and are hindering the belief in which you have whole heartedly devouted your life to. Why are there so many people in them? Have you ever thought that freewill is something more than what your so called "God" teaches you. Look at it this way, assuming you are an american, you have much freedoms although most feel they are being stripped, now think of communism, how you are told what to do. Now here is the hard part for you, would you rather live in America or a communist country sorta like Do you wanna follow your communist "God" or have freewill as others do choose.

If this post has offened anyone I am sorry but I was trying to show our dear detectiveperez here the difference in choice and how if you choose not to follow his "God" rather then a other representaion of a supreme being that this does not mean you worship satan.

So in a nutshell Detective perez layoff others beliefs, so what they dont believe in what you believe to be "God" it does not make anyone of then devil worshipers.

Why is the Medal of Honour an inverted pentagram?
Why is the USA police force using an inverted pentagram as a badge?

Why are you now denying that the inverted pentagram is in fact Baphomet�s Sigil? (Without the goat head off course.)
The two upward points = represents all that is opposite (i.e. man/woman, black/white, night/day and good/evil etc.)
The 3 other points = represents the denial of the holy 3 (i.e. the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost.)

I would like to point out that this symbol is the same with or without the goat head; it is also widely known that the real pentagram is a Sigil of protection versus evil, and if you turn the pentagram you are actually summoning evil spirits.
About Venus it is a representation of the male genitals or another name for Lucifer, all this is fact and it amuses me to see you masons trying to deny this.

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

*this subliminal message was brought to you by the fire-drill instructors for a better tomorrow*

[edit on 12-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
... so I crush your head.

[deletia]

The reason why I care so much is because I love each and every one of you.

I don't really feel like I have to comment further.

www.100megsfree4.com...

www.rdrop.com...


HMMMmmmmm. what with the pentagon shape then?





[edit on 12-8-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
www.100megsfree4.com...

www.rdrop.com...


HMMMmmmmm.

Look, do you have anything other than insinuation? Yes, they look similar... so what? Do you have any evidence at all that the Eastern Star does anything Satanic whatsoever? Or are you going to base your supposition on the superficial resemblance of a symbol intending to indicate the five exemplars of the Order and a completely unrelated (though structurally similar) symbol used by some pseudo-magicians in the last hundred years?

In other words, is that all you've got? If so, in my opinion, you should be laughed right out of the court of public opinion.

P.S. Do you know what that book on the altar in the middle of the OES symbol is? Yes, it's a Bible. A Christian Bible. The book on which the vast majority of Eastern Star Members take their obligation (I am presuming that Muslims take their obligation on a Koran).

P.P.S. If you're actually interested in truth, you can find lots of information about the pentagram here, including the fact that it was used as a Christian symbol, and that the whole "two points up / one point up" was probably a joke by Eliphas Levi (a fairly well-known prankster).

[edit on 12-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]

Originally posted by AlexKennedy
Look, do you have anything other than insinuation? Yes, they look similar... so what? Do you have any evidence at all that the Eastern Star does anything Satanic whatsoever? Or are you going to base your supposition on the superficial resemblance of a symbol intending to indicate the five exemplars of the Order and a completely unrelated (though structurally similar) symbol used by some pseudo-magicians in the last hundred years?

In other words, is that all you've got? If so, in my opinion, you should be laughed right out of the court of public opinion.

P.S. Do you know what that book on the altar in the middle of the OES symbol is? Yes, it's a Bible. A Christian Bible. The book on which the vast majority of Eastern Star Members take their obligation (I am presuming that Muslims take their obligation on a Koran).

[edit on 12-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]

The thread was about eastern star. I read in this thread something about baphomet so I posted that. I never said Eastern star was satanic, I just googled it and the baphomet and though ' wow, they look alike, wonder what people think of that??'

I don't mind being laughed at, I am just adding to a thread. Truth in it or not I just added it. Sorry if it offended you, I just wanted to see what people thought of it.

To be honest I am quite bored of these freemason threads now. I personally think there is nothing in it after a little hunting. Just a group of men who need 'something' to belong too. IMO

Keep up the Charity work.

PS: Thanks for the link.

[edit on 12-8-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
Just a group of big boy scouts who need 'something' to belong too.

Keep up the Charity work.

Well, that's not true either, but to be frank, I'd rather people generally believe that than that we're Satanists. Actually, the way things are now is not too terrible, because most people who read stuff like what DP has been posting will be intrigued, investigate, discover we have nothing to do with Satanism, but do have a lot of interesting points, and join. Anybody who would look at the OES emblem and think they are Satanists is not the kind of person I'd want to join.

Also, just to be clear... Freemasonry is NOT a charitable organisation. Masons do charity work, because it's in our nature and what we are taught in Lodge, but Masonry generally does not.

Well Alex Kennedy now you are saying things that aren�t true again.
The symbol is more than hundreds of years old it has been used world wide in the Norse mythology to middle eastern religion, it is supposed to predate the Egyptian empire, so that is not the last hundred years.
There are some tales that would say that in fact the symbol has nothing to do with evilness, but was does you soul tell you, we all know it is an evil Sigil.
In the Norse mythology which predates you precious bible, the pentagram is used by old clever ladies (later dubbed witches by the Christians.) they used the pentagram to protect the Vikings from evil demons and giants, but some times the Vikings did some thing to upset the old lady of the forest and then she would with magic off course reverse the Sigil to call all thoughts of evil demons to their village there for in old Norse history it was seen as a bad omen not to be hospitable to these ladies when they passed by.
This is about 500 AD (At least where we have written proof of the Norse using the Sigil.)
So again this is more than a hundred years Alex Kennedy, would you please stop lying or at least stop calling other people liars when you lie just as much you self.

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone�

Btw: I love all people on this earth, and i would still rip the heads off my enemies.

"Fear accompanies the possibility of death. Calm shepherds its certainty."

[edit on 12-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

I moved the big boy scout comment as I thought it might offend. Still its better then being called a reptile!!!!!

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
There are some tales that would say that in fact the symbol has nothing to do with evilness, but was does you soul tell you, we all know it is an evil Sigil.

I have never won an arguement with "we all just know...", but I appreciate the effort. As for the history of the pentagram, well...you're actually completely...wrong. Here I will provide you some info.

It was also called the Wizard's Star, Star of Bethlehem, Three King's Star, or Druid's Foot. It was believed to form gateless protection (one line weaving), and as a protection symbol, the pentagram was used as a magic charm within many ancient cultures. The five pointed star represents the sign of man/woman, connecting the five body-mind elements together. The pentacle is a sign for life or health. It was not a symbol of satanism.

The earliest known use of the pentagram dates back to around 3500BC at Ur of the Chaldees in Ancient Mesopotamia where it was symbolic of imperial power.

Amongst the Hebrews, the symbol was ascribed to Truth and to the five books of the Pentateuch. It is sometimes, incorrectly, called the Seal of Solomon (see Hexagram).

In Ancient Greece, it was called the Pentalpha, being geometrically composed of five A's. Unlike earlier civilisations, the Greeks did not generally attribute other symbolic meanings to the letters of their alphabet, but certain symbols became connected with Greek letter shapes or positions (eg Gammadion, Alpha-Omega).

To the Gnostics, the pentagram was the 'Blazing Star'.

For the Druids, it was a symbol of Godhead.

In Egypt, it was a symbol of the 'underground womb'.

The Pagan Celts ascribed the pentagram to the underground goddess Morrigan.

Medieval Christians attributed the pentagram to the Five Wounds of Christ.

The Christian Emperor Constantine I used the pentagram, together with the chi-rho symbol in his seal and amulet.

In the legend of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, the pentagram was Sir Gawain's glyph, inscribed in gold on his shield, symbolising the five knightly virtues.

In Medieval times, the 'Endless Knot' was a symbol of Truth and was a protection against demons. It was used as personal protection and to guard windows and doors.

The pentagram with one point upwards symbolised summer; with two points upwards, it was a sign for winter.

During the long period of the Inquisition, the pentagram was seen to symbolise a Goat's Head. In the purge on witches, the horned god Pan became equated with the Devil (a Christian concept) and the pentagram, for the first time in history became a symbol of 'evil' and was called the Witch's Foot.

In the emergence of Hermeticism, graphical symbolism became very important. The concept of the microcosmic world of Man as analogous to the macrocosm, the greater universe of spirit and elemental matter is a part of traditional occult teaching in both western and eastern philosophies. "As above, so below." The pentagram, the 'Star of the Microcosm', symbolised Man within the microcosm, representing in analogy the Macrocosmic universe. The upright pentagram bears some resemblance to the shape of man with his legs and arms outstretched; indeed an illustration attributed to Agrippa or to Tycho Brae (1582) illustrates the similarity of proportion in this image, showing the five planets and the moon at the center point - the genitalia. There are other illustrations of the period by Robert Fludd and Leonardo da Vinci showing geometrical relationships of man to the universe.

Later, the pentagram came to be symbolic of the relationship of the head to the four limbs and hence of the pure concentrated essence of anything (or the spirit) to the four traditional elements of matter. - [Quintessence]

In Freemasonry, Man as Microprosopus was associated with the five-pointed Seal of Solomon. The symbol was used, interlaced and upright for the sitting Master of the Lodge. The geometric properties and structure of the Endless Knot were appreciated and symbolically incorporated into the 72 degree angle of the compasses.

The women's branch of freemasonry uses the five pointed 'Eastern Star' as its emblem. Each point commemorates a heroine of biblical lore.

No graphical illustration of any association of the pentagram with evil appears until the nineteenth century. Eliphas Levi illustrates the upright pentagram of microcosmic man beside an inverted pentagram with the goat's head of Baphomet.

In ritual magick the sign has long been used as a ritual flourish of the Athame to symbolise invoking or banishing in respect to elemental associations.

In the 1940's Gerald Gardner adopted the pentagram with two points upward as the sigil of second degree initiation in the newly emergent, neo-pagan rituals of witchcraft, later to become known as Wicca. The one-point upward pentagram together with the upright triangle symbolised third degree initiation.

The pentagram was also inscribed on the altar pentacle, it's points symbolising the three aspects of the Goddess plus the two aspects of the God.

It was not until the late 1960's that the pentagram again became an amuletic symbol to be worn and has since then become firmly established as a common neo-pagan and Wiccan symbol, acquiring many aspects of mystique and associations that are today often considered to be ancient folk-lore!

www.flindersclubs.asn.au...

Note that it represented many things, from truth to the five wounds of Christ. Also note the bold entry which is exactly what Alex stated. You know, I always find that in a disagreement...it good to do some research and check facts. Saves a whole lot of embarrasment.

ZZZ, that's some pretty clever voiving. There was a lot there I've never heard of, as a matter of fact. Have you ever considered becoming a Freemason?

(Don't worry... we don't recruit. I meant that ha-ha only seriously).

Arrgh. These dots. These infernal dots! They just won't stop! They're like the Hounds of Tindalos! Now I have to plaster all the angled corners of my room!

Is there no way to stop these endless dots?

[edit on 12-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]

Originally posted by AlexKennedy
ZZZ, that's some pretty clever voiving. There was a lot there I've never heard of, as a matter of fact. Have you ever considered becoming a Freemason?

Are you kidding...and worship satan? Would I get to censure people at will through mindcontrol too? If so, I'm IN!

Originally posted by AlexKennedy
They're like the Hounds of Tindalos!

HOLY! I never heard of these things!
Are they the official Mason pets?

Got to love the MOD, what is it exactly I say that is wrong?
The story about my own mythology or the story about how old the Sigil is?
You just say you are wrong and paste a long quote in you reply, are you saying that because it isn�t written in your quote it is not true?
I said that the Sigil is more than hundred years old. I said I assumed it predates the Egyptian empire which your quote confirms, or are you referring to my first post?
That in fact the inverted Sigil is the Sigil of Baphomet?
The thing I posted about what each point meant on the Sigil?
Or the stuff I wrote about Venus?


And because you read that, are we supposed to believe you we all ready know where you stand, and it is not on our side.
Why should we believe you quote?
Before you start to argue on all the things in you post claiming I am ignorant some of the things in the quote are true yes but nothing in that quote speaks against what I have posted.
Because you post doesn�t mention what I wrote doesn�t mean it is untrue.

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

*FNORD*

HAIL "BOB"

*FNORD*

BTW: why are a MOD posting stuff that are off topic?
Stick to the subject mmmkay

[edit on 12-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]