Cop Who Executed Oscar Grant Set Free at 12:01 This Morning After Serving 11 Months

reply to post by confreak

Something big must be wrong with the legal system if this man wasn't charged with murder, when clearly he took out his gun and shot the person with intention. I don't think a tazer looks like a gun, nor do I think tazers are held in the same area as the gun, on the same side of the body, nor does it have the same trigger.

What he is trying to explain is that certain crimes have certain intent. The intent is what makes the difference when the charges come. If the officer's intent was to kill the man, then murder would be a fitting charge. If the officer's intent was to use the tazer on the guy but instead drew his weapon and accidentally killed the man, then involuntary manslaughter would be the better charge.

Everyone's intent is judged when committing a crime.

The video also didn't show any immediate threat posed by the deceased man, he merely stood up and the cops pushed him back down, there was more than 3 cops in the scene, the deceased man was already on the ground.

You can't blame panic for the mess up because the deceased man was unarmed and was on the ground with the cop's knee on his back.

It depends on the state laws reguarding the use of tazers and the departments policies. Most departments allow the use of a tazer when the person is actively resisting arrest. The testimony states that the man's arm was underneath his body. Both police and witnesses have stated that. This would constitute resisting arrest.

You can blame panic in this instance. This situation was out of control before the officer shot the man. With trains full of people already on the brink of riot just because the police were trying to arrest the men, it was a powder keg waiting to explode. These officers were in a serious situation and when a human is thrust into a situation like this, you fall back to muscle memory and training.

This is a tragic accident where the amout of neglect on the officer's part is criminal but it was decided in court that the officer did not have the intent to kill the man.

reply to post by notonsamepage

If the cops didn't act like hard asses this wouldn't happen? did you see what I did ?

The police were not acting like hard asses. They were attempting to gain control of a situation and detain those that were involved in a fight at a public transportation establishment.

reply to post by Exuberant1

C'mon guys, the cop made an honest mistake - he is only human after all.

Correct.

He meant to electrotorture that defenseless and restrained man, not kill him. We have to take into account the officer safety aspect of all of this; a cop can't protect you if he has been injured or killed by an unarmed handcuffed black man.

The testimony shows the man was not handcuffed and had one arm under his body while the police were attempting to arrest him. I would submit that 5 seconds of an electric shock that have no permanent effects is much more humane than pulling and wrenching the man's arm, possibly breaking it, until he submits to handcuffing.

reply to post by LetsChangetheWorld


Lets get one thing straight.

The guy is no longer a police officer and will never again be one.

The conviction prevents him from ever possession a handgun under federal law as well as prevents him from ever holding a job in law enforcement ever again.

No longer a police officer. Never will be one again. Please, lets get this straight.

Originally posted by Majestic Lumen
What would people say if a bunch of rowdy drunk people (having celebrated the new year) hurt or killed someone waiting for the train? people would cry foul for there not being any police present. Whether the cop shooting the guy was an accident or not, I can't say, but the people there escalated the situation, if the people there had just remained calm and not have tried to act like hard asses or instigated and made a big fuss, then the worst that would have happened that night would be a couple of drunk people were arrested for disturbing the peace and released the next day.

Sadly, this is just my perspective and I am assuming it is not a popular one.

That is how I feel too. I very, very rarely come down on the side of law enforcement, but as soon as I watched the video, and heard all the hollering and saw all the people running around... aggression was definitely flowing way before the incident hit critical mass. I guess seeing that video made it so I could easily place myself in the BART official's shoes. What a mess of people just acting like jackasses in a public place where people have their kids. And to the person who tried to flip it around and say the cops shouldn't have been hard asses.... well that is kinda their job. It would be hard to keep things under control with a bunch of please and thank yous, in a moment like that. But, I'd assume that is obvious.

BTW, to the poster who had a link to the tazer: Do you think you could embed that so people could see how easy it would be to confuse it with a gun in a moment like that? I had no idea that it looked like that before I saw your post.

Also, the amount of misrepresentation of the facts in this thread is incredibly freaky, and disappointing. I just can't believe that most people on here believe what they are typing. They are exaggerating to the limits to try and 'win an argument'.

I have one question before I finish reading the entire thread and it will show whether the cop murdered the kid or not.

Was the kid shot in the back of the head? If so...this WAS an execution and there's no way around that. You DO NOT taze someone in the back of the head...even if the mistake was made to grab the pistol.

I'll finish reading and see what the details were...

Originally posted by AlphaBetaGammaX


BTW, to the poster who had a link to the tazer: Do you think you could embed that so people could see how easy it would be to confuse it with a gun in a moment like that? I had no idea that it looked like that before I saw your post.

Now just imagine in seconds how this could be mistaken for a gun. They do make black versions of them also. I also believe the same way you do.

I ask again...where was the kid shot?

Ex-LEOs who find themselves incarcerated are separated from the main populace in prison, just ask anyone who work in a prison. It don't take rocket science to know the reason why this would be, everybody and their brother (sister) would be gunning for the former LEO, he or she would be dead in a short period of time. Believe it or not they also do the same for child molesters. The only cop you will find in the main populace of prison is one somebody want to see dead.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
I ask again...where was the kid shot?

in the back...........not the head,as SOME had said.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Good point. I think that would be a big determining factor in the debate.

Based on the circumstances, I believe he was shot in the back and not in the head. Numerous witnesses, who were not police, claim he was talking after being shot. It also states that he died in the hospital some hours later and not at the scene leading me to believe he was not shot in the head.

Wikipedia

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
I ask again...where was the kid shot?

in the back...........not the head,as SOME had said.

OK...if the kid was shot in the back, I can definately see it as an accident.

The worst sentence for this ex-cop will be that he will never be allowed to be a cop again. That probably burns his soul more than anything, to know that at best he can apply to be a "Mall Cop". Wait, he can't even go that route being convicted of manslaughter.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


I think the worst, is he will have to live with accidentally murdering someone,for the rest of his life.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

I think the worst, is he will have to live with accidentally murdering someone,for the rest of his life.

Or meeting the soul guides of high and low density. THERE IS MORE TO THIS life.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

I think the worst, is he will have to live with accidentally murdering someone,for the rest of his life.

Yeah that too...I was commenting on peoples reaction that he got his badge back and received a sentence viewed as light.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

I think the worst, is he will have to live with accidentally murdering someone,for the rest of his life.

Or meeting the soul guides of high and low density. THERE IS MORE TO THIS life.

You are right. But most people live in the "now" dimension. I hope all in this situation find PEACE.

reply to post by sonnny1


This is now----EA inhabitants have timers on things others may not--SO yea Peace to ALL indeed but we are in the NOW... Some are unhumble and WONT CHANGE THEIR WAYS.Until.......................

ALL it takes is flesh displacement or divine encounter

And all could be prevented if there was just LOVE between those who carry badge and those who dont. I realized nothing will change here if the same activities are accepted and not fixed. So as long as hidden powerfuls can do as they wish there will always be some form of balance. Its just the balance gets the evol look and yet its called by evol ignorant behaviors...

Be well

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by BrokenCircles

The officer was sentenced to jail time, not death.

I never said he was sentenced to death, nor did I say that he deserved a death sentence. I was merely stating that a cozy private cell in a county jail for 11 months, is a much lesser PRISON sentence than a regular civilian would have received from committing the same act, simply because they were sorry about the "accident."

Originally posted by BrokenCircles. . . Posted on 6/14/11 @ 05:53 AM

I do believe that he needed extra protection. If Johannes Mehserle had stepped foot inside a real prison, and had not received any special benefits, he would never have stepped foot outside of that prison.

I have seen several videos, and you can clearly see that Grant was resisting arrest.

Lesson 1 to be learned, in such circumstances, do exactly what the cops are telling you to do, because that is your best chance for survival.

Lesson 2, resisting arrest can very likely lead to your own death, or sever injury.

People were yelling at the law enforcement personnel, who are only there to do their jobs. This undoubtedly increase the tension, stress, and emotional states of the officers, once again, increasing the odds that something bad was going to happen.

Lesson 3, when something like this is going down, keep your mouth shut. It is stupid to make a bad situation worse by shooting your mouth off.

All those people who had to shoot their mouths off contributed to this young man getting killed.

Who knows, maybe the kid, he looks real young, was a victim. Maybe he got into a fight defending himself or a friend, maybe he was a good young man who got caught in a bad situation, and felt that he was being unfairly singled out. Even so, he should have stuck with lessons 1 and 2, and he would still be alive today.

I know I have seen people under stress make stupid mistakes, and I have done so myself. We all do, so there is reasonable doubt that the officer thought he was pulling his taser. His reaction shows this. He might not even know himself how he pulled his pistol instead of the taser.

What would his motivations be for killing this young man? For him to be guilty of a more serious crime, they would have to prove that he was a bigot of some kind, with no concern for human life. Without a clear history, that would be very hard to prove. What is most likely is that he reacted in fear, and made a very bad mistake.

It is a tragic event, the best thing to do is learn some lessons from it.

If you are getting arrested in a public place under chaotic conditions, cooperate with the police completely, because that is your best chance for survival. Not only does it increase you odds of survival, you can earn some respect from the police, and chances are far greater that you will be through the ordeal that much quicker.

Teach your young people out there, that this is what they should do, especially if they have been partaking.

While there are bad cops, most of them are decent people, and if you give respect, you are more likely to get some respect. Demonstrate that you have emotional control and that you can act in an intelligent manner, and things pretty much always go better, even when the cops are acting like jerks. Remember to keep a cool head.

Can someone clarify this for me:-

"Mehserle claims he mistook his gun for his Taser when he fired a shot at Grant, who lay facedown at the train station."

First of all I'm a Brit and the majority of our police do not carry guns, though they do use Tasers. The above quote is confusing me so the questions I would like to ask are.
1) Do the police in the USA go about their business with the safety catch off on there guns?
2) If not then how did this officer NOT know it was a gun when he took the safety catch off?
3) Do Tasers have a safety catch that is the same/similar to the safety catch on a gun?
4) Are Tasers not lighter and bulkier than a gun?
5) If they are then how did this officer NOT know it was gun he was firing?

If the answer to 1) is NO and the answer to 3) is NO and the answer to 4) is Yes

Then it begs the question. What kind of prosecutor was in charge of the prosecution? Because it seems to me that this was an out and out murder having seen the video and if the answers to the 1) 3) and 4) are correct.