Cop Who Executed Oscar Grant Set Free at 12:01 This Morning After Serving 11 Months

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posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by LightAssassin

Originally posted by rivalbeast
But what about young Black males murdering one another in the Oakland streets on a regular basis? Does anyone care about that? Young black men have been killing each other before and after Oscar Grant in Oakland, however, no one cares...The only reason Oscar Grant matters is because he was killed by a cop, if he was killed by another young black male this thread would not exist...


Seriously...What is the role of law enforcement? Well, the original meaning, not this current meaning?....Black men killing black men are no different from White men house robbing, raping and murdering a family. Or Mexican men executing a father in front of his family...

THE DIFFERENCE IS THEY ARE MEANT TO PROTECT US. FROM OURSELVES.


take a step back, to before this phrase "LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS" began describing PEACE OFFICERS.

looking at the words describing the civil servants we know as COPS, give 2 totally different meanings.
Peace officer- in it's simplest definition, is an officer of the peace.
Law Enforcement Officer- Enforces law.....regardless of it's legality or constitutionality.

there has been a gradual change in american society towards the latter. and no one even noticed.

Guess i'll be making a thread! (no one steal my idea...lol!)




posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by LightAssassin
THE DIFFERENCE IS THEY ARE MEANT TO PROTECT US. FROM OURSELVES.


The role of Law Enforcement is not to protect the individual, but society as a whole. Law Enforcements function should be that of a last resort. We should be visible but not overbearing, helpful and courteous, firm but fair when dealing with the citizens we work for.

The concept of full time law enforcement dates back to London England. Law Enforcement evolved in a different manner in the US beause, at the time our country was founded, people were reluctant to let the government establish an overbearing presence.

Hence the reasons behind the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th amendements to our Consitution. One of the fears the founding fathers had was creating an institution that would place a permanent armed presence in cities / population centers. This is why our militrary is set up the way it is, and why we have posse commitatus. This is why State militia units are under the command of an ajudant General and the Govenor.

In an effort to keep the military out, we let law enforcement in. Law Enforcement back in the day, when compared to now, are completely different beasts. Law Enforcement has in a sense become the standing army the founding fathers wanteed to avoid.

Whose fault is it for where we are today? It lies with 2 groups, although not equally.

5% of the blame belongs to the Government (Federal, State and Local) for over stepping its bounds while being afraid of its own shadow and political correctness.

95% of the blame lies with the people for taking our form of Government for granted. For assuming that the people they elect could police themselves while fully representing the people. For being apathetic when the time comes to vote and ignoring it. For allowing the government to pass laws that are vague with loopholes that are exploited.

Our founding Fathers created a Representiative Republic - A grand experiment at the time, with the expectation that it is of, by and for the people. This requires citizens to partake in Government, from voting people in, voting people out, attending government meetings (city Council etc) and last but not least communicating with the elected officals.

The amount of distrust between the citizens and law enforcement grows on a daily basis. It is evident more so now because everyone is armed with a cell phone and camera.

There used to be a time where if an officer was dealing with a "bad guy" in the middle of a crowd, there was no thought that the crowd would attack the officer. If anything they would assist if they had to. Now days, as we can see, when an officer is dealing with a bad guy in the crowd, there is concern that the crowd might attack the officer.

This situation is tragic - plain and simple. There is enough 20/20 hindsight that does suggest the officer who shot the individual apparently went retarded with his actions and choices that day.There is nothing that can be done to change the outcome of what occured.

The question we must ask ourselves is this -
Do we continue down the road we are on now, with rampant distrust between the police and the citizens we serve, apathy towards holding government accountible and voting?

or

Do we learn from our mistakes and acknowledge there is a problem on both sides of the equation. Do we set the paranoia aside and engage each other to open the lines of communication?.

Personally speaking I vote for option #2. We can take a trip through history to see what happens when the disconnect between the people and the Government who serves them become so distrustful of each other that paranoia and anger crosses over to armed conflict.

I believe there is opprotunity to head disaster off. It is going to require peple to live up the the founding fathers expectations though, where the citizens go back to participation and exercise their oversight of Government.

Just my 2 cents.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by jude11
 


literally sickening



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I can't believe you are blaming people for not voting when it is the LEO force who should be policing themselves.

Do that and problem solved. Not voting this schmuck in or that schmuck out.


Thomas was sentenced Monday to four-and-a-half to 20 years in prison for involuntary manslaughter of Clifford Jones..............

Thomas punched Cifford Bernard Jones in the face, which knocked the 52-year-old to the concrete driveway. Jones struck his head and died the next day of his injuries.

Jones had been acting as a peacemaker to stop Thomas and another man from fighting, according to testimony at Thomas’ trial earlier this month.


www.mlive.com...

That's just one example of the difference between a regular Joe Schmoe, and a "God"....err I mean a cop.

4.5 to 20 years for punching someone while trying to break up a fight.

2 years for "accidentally" pulling your fire arm and shooting someone point blank.

Yup....seems real fair to me.

But, but...it's the voters fault. Give me a fraking break.



edit on 15-6-2011 by Nutter because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
There used to be a time where if an officer was dealing with a "bad guy" in the middle of a crowd, there was no thought that the crowd would attack the officer. If anything they would assist if they had to. Now days, as we can see, when an officer is dealing with a bad guy in the crowd, there is concern that the crowd might attack the officer.


And who's fault is that? It isn't crowds that have turned into a paramilitary class..

And in the past people were not forced to hear the sounds of a cop using electricity to subdue or torture a man.

The sound of electricity arcing and the cries of pain and the memories of youtube videos going through the crowds minds must set off some primal instincts, especially if they don't see the perp as a threat to themselves or the officers. When that happens he is viewed as a 'victim' and the cops stop being viewed as sheepdogs and start being viewed as predators.

It is too bad as the police won't ever be trusted the way they once were.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by Nutter
 


Yeah, you missed the point. We can police ourselves and we do, however as people are so fond of pointing out, the people are our bosses. If they are our bosses, and we use tax revenue for our operations, would it not make sense for our bosses to be in the loop and participate?

Also, if you are going to use an example, you need to make sure you are comparing Apples to Apples. Your article occured in Michigan, not California.

Contrary to what people might think, each state has its own set of laws and criteria for establishing what is a crime, what the elements of the crime are as well as the punishment (based on felony or midameanor).

There is NO uniform set of laws from state to state and people must understand this in order to debate this issue or others. If you want to compare, then you will need to find a similar incident that occured in California, as well as making sure that the comparison occured at a time where the laws and punishments are the same (IE digging up a case from 10 years ago to compare to this one would be an issue if the laws have changed since them).

Cops are not Gods, however thank you for making my point for me. The perception you have is the Cops are Gods, or in other words answereable to no one but themselves. This is exactly why I made the comment I did about the citizens taking part in their government.

I did not lay blame on the citizens for this incident. I am laying blame on citizens for not caring about what the Government does - across the spectrum from local to state to federal government operations.

Your comments reinforce my argument. Is there any reason that citizens should not be active with government? Is there any particular reason that citizens should not police the government or the law enforcement agencies?



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
And who's fault is that? It isn't crowds that have turned into a paramilitary class..


Actually to an extent it is. The world we live in now is not the same place 50 years ago. What I am saying is its a 2 way street. Government and Law Enforcement must communicate with the people they serve, and the people must engage and communicate with their government and law enforcement.



Originally posted by Exuberant1
And in the past people were not forced to hear the sounds of a cop using electricity to subdue or torture a man.

Deploying a Taser, using it how its intended, is not torture. Making a blanket statement that insinuates all cops torture people is a very ignorant comment. You dont like it when the cops sterotype citizens, why would you think it would be acceptable for you to do the same?

Also, learn how a Taser works before saying it electrocutes people.

As for the past, we can take a look at the days of Mafia gangs and tommy guns being used.

My intent behind that comment is back during those days, people participated in government and had communications with law enforcement. That is the problem today, because neither side engages in enough of it.



Originally posted by Exuberant1
The sound of electricity arcing and the cries of pain and the memories of youtube videos going through the crowds minds must set off some primal instincts, especially if they don't see the perp as a threat to themselves or the officers. When that happens he is viewed as a 'victim' and the cops stop being viewed as sheepdogs and start being viewed as predators.


You are ignoring the law and making an emotional comparison in a blanket manner. Please provide specific incidents and sources so we can go through them one by one so we are both on the same page.



Originally posted by Exuberant1
It is too bad as the police won't ever be trusted the way they once were.

They still are in some places, they arent in others. However you again are making a blanket statement. Please back up your claim that the entire law enforcement community is not trusted.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Also, learn how a Taser works before saying it electrocutes people.


Now now... don't go making things up putting words in people's mouths. People will read my post and then read yours and see that nowhere did I say that tasers 'electrocute' people - this will negatively affect your credibility.

You are supposed to be a cop on here, remember?

So how does it look when people see a cop putting words in someone's mouth?

It must be quite disconcerting. And you wonder why people don't trust the police?



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


Now I understand why you call yourself a champion of debate. You simply avoid what people say to you, and input other arguments into discussion, when your own arguments are at stake, avoiding a proper discussion.

X may have rephrased that part improperly. But where are your answers to the other points raised?

Instead of refuting X, you simply attack what was said.

You answered to ONE LINE of X's complete posts. Is that the best you can do?

Pathetic.
edit on 15/6/11 by Tifozi because: typo



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:42 AM
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I hope someone accidently hits the gas instead of the brakes when he is in the crosswalk then. Mistake my ass, I have had the pleasure of shooting a police grade tazer at a seminar, and I have shot all kinds of handguns. There is no way that was a mistake....



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Tifozi

X may have rephrased that part improperly.


Let's just hope he doesn't make such mistakes at work. In a thread such as this, such 'mistakes' are disconcerting, especially given the profession of the one who made them.

And he did not 'may have anything' - don't be so disingenuous.

When someone makes and obviously inaccurate statement and that statement is corrected by another person, the original person is not 'maybe' wrong - they are just plain wrong.

In a thread such as this certain people need to be more mindful of the accuracy of their statements.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


I still don't see anything relevant to the discussion at hand in your post.

Nor did I see you refute the questions raised by X's post.

You just proved my point. Thank you.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by MrWendal
11 freakin months?? That is it?? 11 months for shooting a handcuffed, unarmed man in the back of the head?

If that is all the prison time one can get for such actions, this cop better hope no one gets the kind of ideas I have running through my head. It would be a real shame if he found himself on the receiving end of the same treatment he gave others... yup.. a real shame. It would be 11 Months worth doing, and you know every other inmate would treat you like royalty while you were in prison.


Defend your daughter? 20 years in prison
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This was a post about a man going to prison for protecting his daughter...20 YEARS... if anyone dosnt see the corruption we live in then you are absolutely and forever blind.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by BrokenCircles
 


We are not talking about a regular civilian here. We are talking about a former police officer who will be targeted for serious injury or murder while incarcerated. Hence the protective custody.

What you are not taking into consideration is that he was a police officer. He had the right to carry a gun. He had the right to effect an arrest. He was acting in an official capacity. A regular civilian would not have found himself in a position where he accidentally shot someone while attempting to effect an arrest. A regular civilian should not be attempting to arrest and taze someone in the first place. If a regular civilian found themself in a position where they are holding someone down, trying to handcuff them, attempts to pull a tazer out and taze them but accidentally pulls a gun out and shoots them there is something very wrong.

What I am trying to say is that the circumstances are completely different because he is a police officer and not a regular civilian.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by Shazmar
 


The answer to all of your questions is one simple thing.

Muscle memory.

When your body goes into a stress response mode many things happen to your body. Your brain starts working from the mid-brain instead of the frontal lobe. This causes you to lose your fine motor skills. Your body then relies on muscle memory and training. If the officer was so stressed in this situation that he decided to act, his brain used the wrong neural pathways which caused him to draw his weapon and fire instead of the tazer which operates in the same manner. Pulling a trigger. In a stress response, you can not feel the weight of a gun or whether or not you are taking the safety off.

All of this taken into consideration paints the picture to a reasonable person that the officer's intent was not to kill the man. The amount of negligence on the officer's part is criminal though.

The real question should be was this that stressful of a situation?

Well maybe not from the chair in your office or couch that sits infront of your computer. Being in that situation could be very stressful. You are attempting to arrest someone who is actively resisting that arrest. You have trains full of passengers that do not agree with your decision to arrest the person. Most are screaming and yelling at you. Some are even approaching as if they are going to assault you. You decide the best way to handle the situation is to taze the guy, get him under arrest and then get out of there as quickly as you can. GO!



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by buddha
 


Buddha, really?



The Tazzer is use'd so they dont have to shoot them.

The tazer is not primarily used so they dont have to shoot them. If they the suspect has a gun the police are not using a tazer. If the suspect has a knife, a tazer can be used but, if attempted, you better believe another officer has a gun out and ready to use it.


it is not to use to make some one shut up and feel fear.

The tazer can be used on someone who is actively resisting arrest. It has already been determined that he was actively resisting arrest.


if a cop use'es a tazzer he should have an inquiry.

All police departments track the use of the tazer and determine if it was in policy.


just like when he use's a gun.

The chance of you dying from being tazed, although misrepresented in the media, is very slim. The chances of you dying from being shot is substantially higher. Its not the same.


this will stop them Tazzering every on.
and the mase spray.
is the Only way a cop can get respect.
to hit, mase, tazzer and shoot them?

An officer uses the reasonable force neccessary to overcome the resisting force of the person they are trying to arrest. It should have nothing to do with respect. Actually, being maced or tazered is more humane than being punched because the chances of causing lasting injury are much less.


You only get Respect for being a good man.

Partly true. Some in this world, especially some that the police are here to deal with, respect no one but themselves good or bad.


and All cops are bad, all.
if not they would speak out.

Generalizations, blanket statements and prejudice are bad.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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Damn! We need Robocop.

But seriously, police officers should truly "serve and protect" the citizens, not "punish and oppress". Some officers seem to forget this simple fact.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by BrokenCircles
 
We are not talking about a regular civilian here. We are talking about a former police officer who will be targeted for serious injury or murder while incarcerated. Hence the protective custody.
*No snip*
Please try to pay attention this time, ok?

You already said this, as if I did not already know it. I replied and quoted myself, showing you that I had already stated this.

This statement of yours, only further proves the point I was trying to make. Obviously, if he was not granted special treatment, he would have stopped breathing months ago. Since he was granted special treatment, in the form of his own cozy private cell in a county jail, as opposed to a crowded dirty cell in gen-pop of a max security prison, his blood still flows.

There is a reason for the statements that I have made. Certain people, who love to scream about written law, use the argument that what is written, is the way it is. Certain people claim that this cop was treated exactly the same as any regular civilian would have been treated. That is just not true.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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edit on 15-6-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by Tifozi

X may have rephrased that part improperly.


Let's just hope he doesn't make such mistakes at work. In a thread such as this, such 'mistakes' are disconcerting, especially given the profession of the one who made them.


I dont make "mistakes" when it comes to something I care about, like my job. Responding to you on the other hand, is something I dont care about since all you do is play games and make snide remarks that have no bearing on the debate at hand, and only serves as a derailment of the topic. But hey, if that works for you, then by all means continue making your mistakes.


Originally posted by Exuberant1
And he did not 'may have anything' - don't be so disingenuous.

You should learn what the last word means and think about it before opening your mouth.



Originally posted by Exuberant1
When someone makes and obviously inaccurate statement and that statement is corrected by another person, the original person is not 'maybe' wrong - they are just plain wrong.

So then how do we describe what it is you do then? You make innacurrate statements all the time. I guess you are just plain wrong then. Or does that only apply to people other than you?



Originally posted by Exuberant1
In a thread such as this certain people need to be more mindful of the accuracy of their statements.

While others who have no idea what they are talking about should probaly not open their mouths. Better to be thought of a fool, than for you to open your mouth and remove all doubt.


The onlything disconcerting in this thread is your ability to make accusations with no foundation. What exactly was it you are trying to describe by saying this:


Originally posted by Exuberant1
And who's fault is that? It isn't crowds that have turned into a paramilitary class..

And in the past people were not forced to hear the sounds of a cop using electricity to subdue or torture a man.

The sound of electricity arcing and the cries of pain and the memories of youtube videos going through the crowds minds must set off some primal instincts, especially if they don't see the perp as a threat to themselves or the officers. When that happens he is viewed as a 'victim' and the cops stop being viewed as sheepdogs and start being viewed as predators.

It is too bad as the police won't ever be trusted the way they once were.


Oh Im sorry, what exactly was it you were trying to get across to the people by using terms like electricity - torture - cries of pain.

By all means, please clarify what it is you are insinuating. If you arent referring to electrocution, then what exactly are you trying to describe here?

Play all the games you want since apprently its the onlything you know how to do in threads like this. Make little comments in hopes of baiting people to respond so you can play the "I never said that poor little me" game that you do in pretty much all the threads you post in.

Based on your choice of words -

You are making an insinuation that is untrue. So please, clarify your statement and explain to us what you meant by your post when you described a Taser and how it works.

Also, please provide documentation and sources that have classified the Tasers use as torture, after all you said it best -

Originally posted by Exuberant1
In a thread such as this certain people need to be more mindful of the accuracy of their statements.


You said it, now support it.





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