A Better World Without Men?

My point is that women aren't going to be impressed with your million dollars when they know you've robbed a bank and killed a couple of security guards to do it. They will be far more impressed when you've worked for it the honest way. Maybe men are misguided and don't realize that a wad of money is impressive only when it is earned through honest measures.

are you saying people with lots of money, a nice car, and who is able to buy expensive jewelry does not have women who is interested who otherwise would not be? the person they are dating does not have to know how they obtained the money. also the person who aquired the money may not be interested in marriage, but is certainly interested in something.

Originally posted by lifeform11

Why would it be pointless? Impressing a woman is not a good excuse to commit a violent crime. I hope you're not trying to argue that shooting a clerk at the Liquor store is justified, because the killer felt the need to impress some females. Is rent, mortgage or car payment money worth a human life or a jail sentence? The answer is No.

it is pointless because you keep saying things i never said.

for example i never said it was a good excuse for commiting crime. i said some people commit crime inorder to obtain money, money = MORE interest from the opposite sex. money = looking after the family.

I'm not trying to accuse you of anything. I know WHY people commit crime. My point is that there are other ways to obtain those things besides hurting or killing people. It sounded to me like you were trying to tell me about these societal pressures on men in order to explain or lessen the severity of their crimes,.... much like child abusers try to gain sympathy by claiming that they themselves were abused when they were young. I'm trying to say that it is not a good excuse and it doesn't lessen the severity of the problem in my eyes. If you were only trying to bring to my attention the reasons people do it without trying to lessen the crime, then that's fine. If I was too harsh on you, I apologize.

Originally posted by lifeform11

My point is that women aren't going to be impressed with your million dollars when they know you've robbed a bank and killed a couple of security guards to do it. They will be far more impressed when you've worked for it the honest way. Maybe men are misguided and don't realize that a wad of money is impressive only when it is earned through honest measures.

are you saying people with lots of money, a nice car, and who is able to buy expensive jewelry does not have women who is interested who otherwise would not be? the person they are dating does not have to know how they obtained the money. also the person who aquired the money may not be interested in marriage, but is certainly interested in something.

I'm sure they have women hanging on their arms. Some women are gold-diggers, and don't mind the way money was obtained. Some womens' affection can be bought. Some women don't know how it was obtained until it's too late. This doesn't make the guy who committed the crime look any better. A man who kills for money just so he can get laid on a regular basis by women he can 'buy' is even worse than the guy who kills for money so he can impress the love of his life. In both cases it would still be a violent crime committed by a male.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


i agree, but now reverse the roles, lets say women are made to feel they must be succesful, have a nice car etc inorder to impress the guys. would more women commit crime inorder to obtain those things? remember in that scenerio the pressure has been took of the men, who can simple pick who he is interested in based on wealth.

would women act differently if social pressures promoted (adverts) women must have a certain standard of living to get men, and also if a large portion of men expected a women to be able to provide certain things before being considered a good 'partner'

I see rainbows, and meadows, and colors.. and more colors! and Unicorns! Oh my, the glory

reply to post by 2manyquestions

I know many women who aren't catty, I know many men who are not violent, but incarceration statistics tell me that the male sex has a far more serious problem controlling their violent behavior than the female sex.

This essentialist, deterministic use of current prison statistics is a bit dangerous.
It may be politically correct to use prison statistics in a gender debate.
But by the same token racists could use prison statistics to say blacks are more violent.
It's exactly the same argument.
Proof of higher comparative prison statistics is proof of innate violence?

In fact that argument is used on racist websites all the time.
The kind of sites that would say: "Imagine a world without black people" (or white people, or whatever).

Essentialist arguments are not true - surely they should lead us to ask: "Why are there more men in prison, or blacks in prison?"

reply to post by 2manyquestions


no it does'nt make anything right. but at the end of the day, the man chases the woman, the woman demands certain things, the man goes and gets them, the more he can get the wider the pool of women he can pick from.
wether we agree on the means of how he got them, it boils down to this.

the key to knowing if women would act differently to men is knowing how they would act if those roles were reversed, before giving men a bad name because of what they do.

we need to understand what the drving force is behind it, then asses how women would act under the same circumstances.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

Women may be less involved in violent muggings at present (although female gangs now target females even in schools).
However, they are certainly involved in scams, and are often the "honey pot" that lures victims to a syndicate.
So they will smuggle and steal for whatever they want, often taking full advantage of helpful men.

I'll take being scammed over being mugged at gun point, beat to a pulp or raped, any day. I never said women don't commit crimes. I said that far more men are incarcerated for violent crimes than women. Men scam too. I have very personal experience in that field. I have yet to be scammed by a woman, however. Could it happen? Certainly.

They are also involved in human trafficking - just yesterday they raided a house where a Chinese lady kept two trafficked women hostage. From what one hears about Arab countries Asian maids are often abused and kept virtual prisoners by their mistresses.

I'm sure that there are some women who are involved in human trafficking. Women are not immune to committing crimes, but once again.... this is a male dominated business. I can guess with confidence that at least 95% of human trafficking customers are male, who are all too glad to pay lots of money to have sex with under-aged girls or boys. Violent and depraved men are the only reason that human trafficking is such a lucrative business.

There are many female serial killers, and because they used poison on their male victims they were often not suspected, and some even got away.

There are some female serial killers, but the great majority of serial killers are male.

The judicial system responds differently to men and women, and since men are not organized politically they will get harsher sentences.

Since men run the Government and Judicial system, what organization do men need in this instance? I would think that in most cases it is men who judge and convict other men. There are instances when judges treat women less harshly, but if the crime is violent, there's no forgiveness if the evidence is there to prove her guilty.

Women abuse the feminine stereotype to harm men all the time.
Men become victims because of their own chivalry.

Women also become victims of men far more frequently than vice versa, ranging from domestic violence to rape, torture and violent death. Some women victimize men, but many more men victimize women.

I just have to look at sinister women like Winnie Mandela, Grace Mugabe or Imelda Marcos to see what women will do for power, riches and sheer vanity.

Should I start naming sinister men? That list may be longer than there is space to place them in. Think about it.

And nowadays young men must take steroids, spend hours in the gym and ruin themselves physically and financially just to get a female partner.
Has anyone seen the masculine ideal in men's health magazines lately?
It's not any more realistic than what is expected of women by the fashion industry.

That's funny. I frequently see out-of-shape men with thin girls in their arms. I don't know how that happens, but it does all too often. I also hear out-of-shape men making fun of overweight girls. It's fun listening to a 300 lbs. guy talk smack about a 160 lbs. woman, telling her she's out of shape. Very few men live up to the magazine covers. I see far more women trying to keep their figure than men. I've lost count of the many men who have no problem with their stomach hanging out, with a hot girl around their arms. Again.... I don't understand it. The women must not be as shallow as they are portrayed, or these guys must be rolling in dough. Either way I just don't see guys being as consumed by magazine ideals as women.

Then I heard a radio discussion on women bullying women in the workplace.
The backstabbing and bad-mouthing to get ahead is widespread.
If men are gone, and women have to compete only with each other it will lead to murder and civil war.
Currently they don't compete with men physically - but they will with other women.

edit on 3-6-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

Some women will bully others just like some guys will bully their co-workers. I'll take bullying over a punch in the face, or a gun shot to my head. When guys fight, they fight. When girls fight, feelings are hurt, but in most cases not much else.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

I know many women who aren't catty, I know many men who are not violent, but incarceration statistics tell me that the male sex has a far more serious problem controlling their violent behavior than the female sex.

This essentialist, deterministic use of current prison statistics is a bit dangerous.
It may be politically correct to use prison statistics in a gender debate.
But by the same token racists could use prison statistics to say blacks are more violent.
It's exactly the same argument.
Proof of higher comparative prison statistics is proof of innate violence?

In fact that argument is used on racist websites all the time.
The kind of sites that would say: "Imagine a world without black people" (or white people, or whatever).

Essentialist arguments are not true - surely they should lead us to ask: "Why are there more men in prison, or blacks in prison?"

Even if we don't look at the statistics, would you be intimidated more by a group of drunken men, or drunken women? When you jog in the park at night do you fear that a woman might kidnap and rape you, or would you expect being attacked by a man? When you walk down a dark alley do you expect a woman to jump out at you with a gun, or a man? When you watch the news do you see more reports of violent crime committed by men or women? Who is sending us to war and who is fighting in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq? Men or women? Would you agree that most of the killing in this world is committed by men? It's common sense and observation of your environment. I threw the statistics in just to get my point across. I don't know about you, but it's clear to me that a greater percentage of the male gender has a problem with committing violent crimes as opposed to the female gender. Men have been at the helm as far back as human records go.

reply to post by defcon5

One could also ask: what is keeping women out of prison?
Discourses of fatherhood are secondary to motherhood in a lot of legal discourses.
Women who commit a similar crime to men may get off sooner, since motherhood is regarded as more crucial than fatherhood.
Kids without a mom are virtually orphaned, but the father is regarded as an optional provider.
In families who commit crime, this is already considered before they commit the offense.
The woman may profit from the crime, but the man commits it.
The children thus stay with the mafia-mom.
Alternatively female gang members are chosen for certain crimes, because their sentences will be reduced if they are pregnant or mothers.

Very few men live up to the magazine covers. I see far more women trying to keep their figure than men. I've lost count of the many men who have no problem with their stomach hanging out, with a hot girl around their arms. Again.... I don't understand it.

i understand it. well at least in some cases. maybe his wallet line is far more important than the waistline. maybe she does'nt want to leave his wallet. i know if he was poor he would of been replaced by now. the only workout that guy needs to take is is releaving that wallet of some of it's cash.

Originally posted by defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

There are just as many female criminals out there as male ones, and there are entire female corrections facilities full of them. Women can be just as violent, and actually tend to be more vindictive, holding long term grudges and seeking revenge.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Do you have anything to back this up? Even if there was a 50/50 split between male and female criminals (violent and non-violent crimes counted), it is still clear as day that men commit violent acts far more frequently than women do. This is very difficult to deny, even without statistics. Men commit the most violent rapes, murders, breaking-and-entering, assault with a deadly weapon, contract killings, human trafficking, and countless other violent crimes.

reply to post by 2manyquestions

If I went jogging in a park I'd be scared if one group approached me, either men or women.

Judging on the wider context in SA I wouldn't expect anything good from either gender towards me in that group.
I could be erring on the side of caution, but better safe than sorry.

I can also honestly say that if I find a waitress that is very flirty with me, I am immediately suspicious and watch my card like a hawk.
The flirtiness then quickly disappears for some reason.

I haven't read all this thread yet, busy with domestic chores, but got to say it's wrong to say men are more prone to violence than women.
Having ran my own pubs and worked doors throughout N.E. and parts of N.W. England I can honestly say I've witnessed and experienced far more trouble off women than I have from men.
However, men are far more brutal and likely to commit extreme violence than women, women are far more bitchy, subtle and manipulative.

A world without either men or women would be pretty boring, and pretty pointless really!

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Originally posted by defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

There are just as many female criminals out there as male ones, and there are entire female corrections facilities full of them. Women can be just as violent, and actually tend to be more vindictive, holding long term grudges and seeking revenge.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Do you have anything to back this up? Even if there was a 50/50 split between male and female criminals (violent and non-violent crimes counted), it is still clear as day that men commit violent acts far more frequently than women do. This is very difficult to deny, even without statistics. Men commit the most violent rapes, murders, breaking-and-entering, assault with a deadly weapon, contract killings, human trafficking, and countless other violent crimes.

Committing, convicted of, or heard about on CNN?

Last time I checked, as soon as a female is involved in any of these, she gets a plea bargain to rat out the dudes then play the victim to squeeze out of the situation entirely.

reply to post by 2manyquestions



I would only support a world dominated by women if my sole purpose in life was to have sex with as many as possible... for the purpose of procreation of course. Hey, someone has to do it, and I would willingly make that sacrifice for the human race.

I've never heard of a man driving his small children into a river or lake. I think men are more prone to white collar crimes than women, and of course there is rape, which is primarily committed by men. It seems that women mostly commit crimes against children, but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
This thread to me suggests that women are not capable of violence or acts of aggression which is simply not true. Women are capable of being just as violent as men.


Besides, a world with out men would be a world with no humans after about 120 years.

Get rid of one sex and you wipe out the whole species.

So, no it would not be a better place.

I'm not sure if you actually read what the OP wrote. She said that yes, women are capable of violence, but men are more prone to do so than women.

Anyway, yeah, it's irrelevant because without one or the other we wouldn't exist.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
I've never heard of a man driving his small children into a river or lake. I think men are more prone to white collar crimes than women, and of course there is rape, which is primarily committed by men. It seems that women mostly commit crimes against children, but I could be wrong.

You seem to forget about pedophilia, that's an criminal area mostly dominated by men. I'm a man myself, and I'll not be a quisling of my own gender, but the numbers and facts speak for themselves.