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Men and Child support. What is the answer?

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posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by CaDreamer
 


Hey, you've got to look on the bright side: At least you're a non-black dude. I can't even get one wife, much less two in America. Ah, but there's always pros and cons. The cons for you are pretty costly though, man. Being unable to support yourself due to child support?

That story makes me feel lucky that I can't get any hunnies. Makes you wonder why they charge dudes for procreating.




posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by CaDreamer
 


i may be called heartless or a jerk or what not

but PERHAPS you and all the rest of them should have thought about that before having the kids


over 50 percent of marriages end in divorce

tons of kids are being had out of wedlock

EVERYONE is going broke

yet the world is still breeding out of control

right now, if i want to go get a dog from a reputable place, i have to prove i can provide a good home for it, i have to prove i have the financial means and knowledge needed to take care of the dog

yet i can go make a kid tomorrow

fortunately, im smart enough not to do that because it wouldnt be fair to the life i create

unfortunately, many in this world arent that smart


do women take advantage of the child support thing, yup i know it for a fact

but maybe the guy should be smarter and avoid the situation all together

our world is obsessed with sex and its destroying us in many ways



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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The ONLY issue I got with child support is this: The one receiving, for the most part, doesnt have to account for the money whatsoever. I pay my support, my son still comes to my house in clothes he outgrew or tore up, yet SHE has nice NEW clothes, and is paying for a PT cruiser. So, along with the CS, I still gotta buy him clothing, pay for his haircuts.
She uses the rationale that she uses the support to pay the rent, electric etc. I told her she'd still have those bills IRREGARDLESS she had my son or not. Buy him some damn clothes.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by TheDevilOfLies
 


Actually anyone can buy 2 dogs and breed them freely no contracts at all.
If people want to do the adoption thing just like a dog adoption, they must show proof of financial and moral substance.
But yes, most people should wait to have kids until they are capable, but sometimes life will not wait.

I used to be young and dumb, I'm not young anymore!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by hillynilly
The solution would be for non-married couples to use condoms, birth control..

DO NOT HAVE KID'S until you can afford them..

MAKE SURE she does not get pregnant..
If you do not want kid's with her.

You guys should of known about these crazy women...
I am glad that I have other men to take advice from
and hear these awful stories so I do not make the
same mistake...

For married-men that were divorced by their wife and took them for
all they got, well I really DO feel bad for you guys
and think the system does screw you...

The majority of all this BS though is from un-married couples
playing house, or being too lazy to put a condom on, or
too dumb and forgets to take her pill.
edit on 1-6-2011 by hillynilly because: (no reason given)


Keep on thinking this way, then when you find out condoms are not 100% effective, that birth control pills are not 100% effective, you can then come tell me all about it again. I bet you sing a different tune. I just hope you don't find out the hard way like so many others have.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by HomerinNC
 


Thats what I don't get. Its called child support for a reason. NOT "Im an adult, look at me, but i still am not willing to pay my own bills so ill get this schmuck to pay them for me" support. Paying your bills should be YOUR responsability not anyone elses. If you can't pay said pills. What the hell are you doing draging a child through the muck behind you? It really does not, in any way, take 200-1000 dollars a week to care for a child. It may cost that much to pay for the recieving parents lavish lifestyle, but deffinately not a child.

MOTF!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by TheDevilOfLies
 


Actually anyone can buy 2 dogs and breed them freely no contracts at all.
If people want to do the adoption thing just like a dog adoption, they must show proof of financial and moral substance.
But yes, most people should wait to have kids until they are capable, but sometimes life will not wait.

I used to be young and dumb, I'm not young anymore!


not sure wher eyou are but in the state of ny that is not a case, i know that matter of factly as i have family who

A. breeds dogs in the state of ny
B. takes care of dogs working with the adoption foundations

do people do what you said, yup, but its not legal and there are many things on record that will land you in trouble if you do things the way you explained

im sure its different out of nys, but thats how it is here LEGALLY, now i know we all realize people dont always do things legally



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by CaDreamer
 


I truly feel for you, in Kalifornia it seems only mothers understand how to raise a child, and it is quite priceless, both metaphorically and literally.
I can offer no advice except to say hang in there it does get better, right about the childs 18th birthday.
The states have a way of making some fathers dislike things about their children by charging the non custodial parent for huge amounts of cash and no tax deductions.
I understand why some fathers flee, it is a life sentance and child support cannot be removed by bankruptcy.
Back in 90 or so I was nailed for a little over 1500. a month for 2 boys.
I kept up with it but barely, i had no deductions and made a huge amount of cash that always went to the ex.
I literally bought her a house.
But it does get better, hang in there.

They upped it to 24 yrs old if the kids stay in school.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by hillynilly
The solution would be for non-married couples to use condoms, birth control..

DO NOT HAVE KID'S until you can afford them..

MAKE SURE she does not get pregnant..
If you do not want kid's with her.

You guys should of known about these crazy women...
I am glad that I have other men to take advice from
and hear these awful stories so I do not make the
same mistake...

For married-men that were divorced by their wife and took them for
all they got, well I really DO feel bad for you guys
and think the system does screw you...

The majority of all this BS though is from un-married couples
playing house, or being too lazy to put a condom on, or
too dumb and forgets to take her pill.
edit on 1-6-2011 by hillynilly because: (no reason given)


Keep on thinking this way, then when you find out condoms are not 100% effective, that birth control pills are not 100% effective, you can then come tell me all about it again. I bet you sing a different tune. I just hope you don't find out the hard way like so many others have.



condoms and birth control

what a joke

what ever happened to personal responsibility??

only recently has sex been such a NEED in humans everyday life

people cant go a day without it

they need their bc pills and their condoms and blah blah blah

heres a simple solution

if you arent in a position to raise a kid, if youre not in a REAL relationship, keep it in your pants

WHAT A CRAZY CONCEPT!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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recently??
why do you think women ended up having 10 or so kids before birth control became so prevalent??? the only difference is that society put more pressure on people to get married early...so, well, they were married couples with 10 or so kids, and likely not to divorce, because society kind of frowned on that one also, and make it an extremely unpleasant experience, especially for the women....
edit on 1-6-2011 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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If you can't support a kid, honestly you shouldn't have one. It's one of the reasons why I haven't bothered much at my age. If you're going to do it right, kids are expensive. (Both in money and in time.)

However the system is broken, as accountability often isn't fairly distributed. The one receiving child support should legally be required to keep track of how such payments are used. A state monitored escrow account would probably be the way to do it. It would help assure that whatever support payments are made are used as intended and to possibly make adjustments if disputes over expenditures occur. (Too much funny business and downward adjustments could be made, or maybe DCFS gets involved and possibly taking the kids and the support money with them.) More effort needs to be done to fix this, so that less exploitation can take place when dealing with such matters.

I'd also bet that the way the system currently works is also contributing in some part to the male homeless population. I wouldn't be too surprised if a good percentage of bums out there have little ones running around unaccounted for somewhere. You've got to consider the reasoning though, those in the lower economic tiers put in a lot of work for essentially nothing in return or go to jail. In their case they dropped out of the system skipped out on both of those options in order to have their freedom... I guess they're doing us a small favor. At least the taxpayers are only covering the expenses of the kid (via welfare), and not the kid and the dad.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by hillynilly
The solution would be for non-married couples to use condoms, birth control..

DO NOT HAVE KID'S until you can afford them..

MAKE SURE she does not get pregnant..
If you do not want kid's with her.

You guys should of known about these crazy women...
I am glad that I have other men to take advice from
and hear these awful stories so I do not make the
same mistake...

For married-men that were divorced by their wife and took them for
all they got, well I really DO feel bad for you guys
and think the system does screw you...

The majority of all this BS though is from un-married couples
playing house, or being too lazy to put a condom on, or
too dumb and forgets to take her pill.
edit on 1-6-2011 by hillynilly because: (no reason given)


Keep on thinking this way, then when you find out condoms are not 100% effective, that birth control pills are not 100% effective, you can then come tell me all about it again. I bet you sing a different tune. I just hope you don't find out the hard way like so many others have.


Condoms are 80% effective and birth control is 99.9% effective (0% effective if she does not take it which she usually will tell you she did take it when she did NOT)
If used PROPERLY birth control is VERY effective..
I have been using condoms and have had girls on the pill
for 10 years without a problem........

To stay smart if she is on the pill, still use a condom, and PULL OUT even though
you have a condom on it is not rocket science....

If that is *too much* for you to handle you really should not
even be having sex..
edit on 1-6-2011 by hillynilly because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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The sad part is that women don't get forced to pay as much support as men do. I have full custody of both my children and their mother was only ordered to pay $24.00 a week. Now if I was the one that had to pay support I'd be looking at paying at least 4x that a week if not more.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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O M G !!!!! This is what I'm talking about, right here, this subject. Let me tell my story and see what you all have to say. I was 20 she ( referred to as "It" here afterwards) was just before being legal. I was married and wanted to have nothing to do with "it" for I was a happily married man. Year or two went by "it" was chasing me like a small kid to an ice cream truck on the hottest of 4th of July's. By this time infidelity had happen in my seemingly strong marriage. ( No I wasn't the one that stepped out my wife did, but that's a side story all within it self)

So by this time I finally caved in and made my First mistake, I had relations with "It" and everything seemed to go orderly as one would think, Another year past, I noticed that "IT" started to act as if though I wasn't interested in her, and the truth be known by this point, I was digging the fact that I had a woman/girl younger than me, I was eating it up. However, I took it upon myself to see to it that she went to the doctors, had her put on the "pill" and all was fine,... Till she popped up pregnant!. She had missed taking her pill by 4 hours one night, Later it was established that it was on propose. and she then, had me trapped!. I did the right things, put a roof over our .s, supported her, feed her, bought food clothes and everything else my lil baby girl needed. Now in hindsight did I do something wrong, Yes, I was moody, I was easy to set off, I was confrontational and yes there were times when We ("it" and I ) would have some pretty EPIC arguments. I was young, dumb, and Very stubborn. It was during this period of time I first noticed that she had a problem, she was popping pills, Stealing money, Lying, and being very manipulative.

So one day I come home from working 3rd shift, and I see our appt. totally thrashed, She claimed she was mad and had a fit of rage cause the baby wouldn't stop crying. I (second mistake) over looked it being as our child was in the other room asleep, fine and unaware of the chaos that had happen in the other room.

Things began to crumble at this point in time. She was very mean, rude, and otherwise very inattentive of our first born. I attempted to leave, take the child, moved out and was doing everything (working, caring for and tending to our child), BUT OH NO! Whats this I see coming, the po po with the blue lights flashing claiming that "IT" had taken an ex parte out on me and got temp custody of our first born. (this is also where I started to realize that US COURTS are more crooked than the so-called crooks that have been locked up ) This time I was somewhat lucky in that the court only ordered me to pay 56 a month in child support. ( I had lost my job cause of the lost time from the court cases and her harassing me at work over the phone, which was recorded and presented to the judge, which, didn't care.

(3rd mistake)
After about another year "it" and I reconciled ("It" claimed that she had gotten it all out of her system and was ready to settle down)

(4th, 5th, and 6th mistake)
We moved back in together, had another kid, and I was lucky by getting a very high paying job.

(7th mistake)
Things began to be the same, Once again I came home and there "it" was on the floor after having tried to medically abort out second born. There was pill bottles and drugs flung everywhere and all I could make out from what "IT" said was It was my fault and that she hoped He died!... This is were I started to grow a pair of balls! I told her, she was trash! anyone that would do that is a waste of air. I stood above "it" and said, " If our son dies cause of you, you better hope that you do too, cause I will not be as merciful to you as god will by tossing your sorry @ $ $ in to hell. " The judge agreed with me the second time she tried the ex parte order, however, still allowed both children to remain with her..... This time, ONLY because i was making 15 an hour, the judge ruled that I should be ordered to pay 1200 a month to a murder, and obvious dead beat mother..... keep in mind that's 1/2 my wages before taxes!!!!! Then as predicted, I was laid off from work cause of interference in work performance due to powers beyond my control... "It" called and maliciously Started trouble, Once again this was recorded and presented to a judge later at a modification hearing.

Trust me I don't have to tell anyone how hard it was to support myself much less two children when the constant fear of being bubba's "play thing" was fresh in the front of my mind. But even through this I NEVER GOT BEHIND! Yes I had a modification 6 months later to 780 but my level of life had dipped to record lows, 5 cans of pork and beans a week, water, and at least once a week I would have to walk to work just to make ends meet.
I was living with a friend in a 2 bed room shack basically!!!!! Now here I am, broke, broken hearted, and broken Minded, A washout, but I still saw my kids every week, and I noticed, they were not getting the things they needed. Dirty homely clothes, no food, no toys, no lights, no anything. ( If it had been me neglecting them I WOULD BE IN JAIL FOR LIFE!)

AT the end

I gave up on everything, I longed for my children I wanted to be a part of them from day one but I was forced to sit aside till one night I was allowed to visit, it was deplorable! Kids ask to leave with me, Blindly, I said yes not knowing what would happen, not knowing if the next day I would be in jail, or worse, dead. I was out of a years wages in 6 months All i had was my own place by this point. MY kids never went back to that place, "it" tried the ex parte scam again, but, I fought it, almost getting contempt of court telling the judge that if he allowed the kids to go back with "it" he would be signing the kids death warrant, that I there father, I alone wanted, cared and had the best intent for the kids.

Found out allot over the next year I never knew
I want go on with a long story here I'll just state the facts that were later found out in court a year later:

criminal child neglect on the mothers behalf

child abuse Local D.S.S. called out to "its" house 49 times, photos and other evidence taken each time ( a true testament to the wonderful dss system here in NC, most importantly the Robeson area. (yes sarcasm, heavy sarcasm)

therapy: criminal findings here too, signs of psychical and emotional abuse not limited to sexual as well


So now its been 12 years I've known "it" 12 years of pure hell! At the hands of a malicious cold hearted, abusive waste of air that I refer to as "it" BUT! my kids are now happy, safe, and well taken care of! They are the only reason I keep going everyday!!!

"it" now has 3 felonys against on top of other charges filed by me and the state

But yet "it" calls me a deadbeat ........ I believe the truth is out there.

So in closing, to anyone that may read this, no matter how bad it is, no matter how blek it may seem, There is hope. Just never give up on your lil ones, they didnt ask to be here, they look up to you, and your actions will reflect in how they act as adults... thank you for reading...



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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Depending on where you live, it should never cost more than $50-75 a week for a man to provide HALF of what a child needs. Less if the child is on the father's medical plan.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
recently??
why do you think women ended up having 10 or so kids before birth control became so prevalent??? the only difference is that society put more pressure on people to get married early...so, well, they were married couples with 10 or so kids, and likely not to divorce, because society kind of frowned on that one also, and make it an extremely unpleasant experience, especially for the women....
edit on 1-6-2011 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)


if you think it through

things were much different, they stayed together like you said, and they not only provided for their family, they were ABLE TO

now we are soo far removed we spend money on cell phone bills while going hungry!

i have no problem with a married couple having 5-10 kids, if they live the proper way and have the ability to care for them, if these people were caring for their kids like PARENTS USED TO

id have no problem

but no people are just having sex for sex, and abandoning their partners and their children

like it or not, thats fact, children need parents 24/7 not every other weekend

there used to be a saying too, "it takes a village to raise a child"

now no one in the village knows the kid and the parents are too busy to take care of them too, and cant afford to either, so they divorce, find another person and do it all over again, and the kid is left wondering what the hell is going on


oh actually im sorry everyone else is right, we should just keep doing things how we are, its working out so well for us with all of the abandoned kids, broken homes, domestic abuse and all the other great stuff


people just need personal responsibility and to keep it in their pants until they are smart enough to whip it out or spread the legs


edit to talk about the "unpleasant experience"

whats worse, being a family and working through your problems

or giving up and splitting up and confusing the crap out of the kids while ruining their lives because the two people in charge couldnt work things out and were too dumb enough to figure that out BEFORE HAVING CHILDREN and CREATING LIFE!


edit on 1-6-2011 by TheDevilOfLies because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 


The second time that im referning to both children were on my medical plan and +-250 bucks a week came out of my payroll check. after working 50+ hours I would only see about 150 or so of my check....



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by And Now What
 


Women need to realize that they need to pay their own bills. If they can't provide for themselves, then they certainly cannot provide for a man's children.

I don't understand why women get custody by default, when it is the man who is best able to provide.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by TheDevilOfLies

condoms and birth control

what a joke

what ever happened to personal responsibility??

only recently has sex been such a NEED in humans everyday life

people cant go a day without it

they need their bc pills and their condoms and blah blah blah

heres a simple solution

if you arent in a position to raise a kid, if youre not in a REAL relationship, keep it in your pants

WHAT A CRAZY CONCEPT!


HAHAHA ok please define for me what a "real relationship" is?

Would you call this relationship a "real relationship"?

It all began when Dr. Sharon Irons (an internist) and Dr. Richard Phillips (a family practitioner) began dating in January 1999. Dr. Irons led Dr. Phillips to believe she was divorced and within a few months, they became engaged. According to Dr. Phillips, the two discussed the possibility of having children and he made clear his intentions: that he did not want children until after they were married and any pre-marital sex would require the use of condoms. Throughout the course of their relationship, they engaged in only three instances of oral sex: they never went “all the way.”


This man was going to marry this women. He refused to have unprotected sex because he did not want a child out of wedlock. I would call that a "real relationship"... but what do you think happened next?


Dr. Irons also never informed her boyfriend that she was, in fact, still married. Five months into their relationship, she confessed to Dr. Phillips that she was not divorced and he decided to end their relationship.


So by her own deception and lies this man suddenly found himself in a...hmm what can we call it? A "non real relationship", through no fault of his own.

So what is the big deal about this case you may ask? Well this man pays child support.

Now I know what your thinking, if these 2 people only had oral sex 3 times and you can not get pregnant from oral sex, why is he paying child support? That is a fair question and I hope you are ready for the answer.


On one of these intimate occasions, Dr. Irons did something rather remarkable: After fellating Dr. Phillips, she held his semen in her mouth (where it was suitable to sustain viability) and then inseminated herself with it. She did not inform Dr. Phillips of her actions.

SOURCE

What about this guy? He was married, his wife cheated on him and became pregnant with another man's baby. She passed it off as her husband's child and they divorced when he found out the baby was not his. Is this a "real relationship"? The Mother went on to marry the man who actually fathered the child, but the ex husband is still forced to pay child support to an intact family!!
SOURCE

It is so easy to sit back and judge. It is so easy to sit back and say, "If your not in a real relationship you should not be having sex" but that is really nothing more than wishful thinking and is completely unrealistic. The facts are, people have sex for a variety of reasons. You can not stop it, you can not control them, you can not educate your way out of it, and it has been happening since the beginning of time. Do you remember the 1982 movie classic "Porky's"? There are movies based around the fact that teenagers are curious about sex, have raging hormones, and are horny. So to sit back and pretend that people are not going to have sex anyway is just foolish at best.

Now there is a measure of personal responsibility. If you were man enough to lay down with a women, you should be man enough to take on the consequences of your actions. With that I take no issue and believe this is the right attitude to have. The problem however exist that the Government has stepped in and decided how people will accept responsibility. On the surface, that is still not too bad. The problem with it however is the same problem you have when the Government gets involved in anything. It is open to be abused by others with no conscience.

I do not complain because I pay child support. I complain because I pay child support, all old medical debts relating to the birth, insurance, and everything else I am told to pay. I pay out 48% of my paycheck every week. Yet the mother, who does not have custody because she was abusive to the children and can't get off drugs (which my child support help pay for), pays nothing at all. She is not held to any responsibility, the burden to provide falls solely on me.

Situations like that are commonplace. The fact is that most of the time child support does not go to support the child but instead goes to furnish a lavish lifestyle for the mother. There are countless cases of abuse with the child support system, not only by mothers but by the courts themselves. Forcing a man to pay child support for a child that is not his? It is more common than you think. The problem is not the actual child support, the problem is the abuses within the system and the way the system continues to allow the abuse to continue.
edit on 1-6-2011 by MrWendal because: shortened the quoted portion



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 



I recently got child support established and she only has to pay 65 a month, and is 1600 in arrears, think they have did anything to her? NO, I know its not about the money, heck, I told the judge that. Its about responsibility. It took two of us to make them, absent or not, it will take two to support them... think in a year I've received the first child support check,,, NO! but let me be behind, or get caught disciplining my children in public, IM a deadbeat, it truly is a sad world we live in where women ( and men ) can manipulate the system to live off the other person and the tax payers.. Get a clue read a book grow up you, me and the kids share DNA we all are connected so just do your part... oh well right? maybe one day the system will be reformed and made to reflect a fair balance, but in the mean time, Mostly men, will have to foot the bill, for children they may never see




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