Men and Child support. What is the answer?

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posted on May, 31 2011 @ 09:23 PM
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Let me establish first that I am a Man and I have 3 children by 2 past wives. I happily pay support for all of my beautiful children.
I often go without food, I can not afford it. I often go without clothing I need, I can no longer afford it. I can not even afford to rent a 1 bedroom apartment in this, my town. I am forced to live with room mates.
I am a professional. I earn a decent amount of money. The government taxes me at almost 30% my child support and insurances for the children take another third of my income.
At this time child support is not tax deductible, nor does the recipient have to claim it as income, the same applies to alimony though that's another topic.

If a portion of support was tax deductible, or nontaxable it would be a huge incentive for men to stay employed and happily paying their support.
I am undergoing severe financial times at the moment. I can only afford to pay the very basic needs of daily life, if i am lucky that month. I am not alone. many men suffer as i do, some resort to not holding a job or scamming the system to claim a medical reason to not work and thus pay support. I know several of these men personally.

I don't begrudge my children anything i often save for months just so i can get them 1 birthday present or Christmas gift. Yes its either or usually.

If the government wants men to do their part as i have they need to add incentives to the process or dead beats will win the battle eventually.




posted on May, 31 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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thats pretty good your holding up your child support


the government has more then enough on its plate and its trillions of dollars in debt ..

yes its hard to make child support payments right now because of the economic status around the globe , but its not just hard for you ...its effecting billions of people around the world


a single mother with a child is even harder ! im sure shes had to make that many sacrafices also ... but then again she has an extra mouth to take care of ...


its hard for everybody the best you can do is help out as much as you can , and ride the hard times storm like the rest of us hoping to catch a break down the road ...


it can only get better right ......?

no. lol i doubt it


i think the men and child support do need some sort of assistance i agree . but i just hope its not taken from the childs support payments it usually is if the government steps in


i do think they need a better assement so that that both parties jobs / income etc can be established and the best forumla to make it fair and balanced depending on the situation . It would be a process done every 3 months to keep updated with the change in status of either parent .

at times when one is doing good then payments should be balanced to adjust for that and in hard times the payments should be adjusted again depending on the siutation
edit on 31-5-2011 by seedofchucky because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by CaDreamer
 


I truly feel for you, in Kalifornia it seems only mothers understand how to raise a child, and it is quite priceless, both metaphorically and literally.
I can offer no advice except to say hang in there it does get better, right about the childs 18th birthday.
The states have a way of making some fathers dislike things about their children by charging the non custodial parent for huge amounts of cash and no tax deductions.
I understand why some fathers flee, it is a life sentance and child support cannot be removed by bankruptcy.
Back in 90 or so I was nailed for a little over 1500. a month for 2 boys.
I kept up with it but barely, i had no deductions and made a huge amount of cash that always went to the ex.
I literally bought her a house.
But it does get better, hang in there.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 09:45 PM
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yeah the economy has been playing havoc with my life as well, haven't had a raise in 2 years.simply making child support paid with proof completely nontaxable would be the ticket. that alone would make a huge difference in my ability to stay afloat. semi afloat.
or as another member posted in another thread... let both parents claim the child as a deduction if one is paying support and the other providing care both parents can claim a hardship and thus deserve the deduction. in my personal situation i do not get to claim any of my children.

its a soon to be ended ordeal for myself though. one grown and on her own a second entering the marines in October and the third i continue to provide for, for another 8 years or so.
edit on 31-5-2011 by CaDreamer because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by CaDreamer
 


My friend you are preaching to Noah about the flood! The only way I make it is that about a year after my divorce I found a good woman, and again have a shared household. We are both in the same profession, and gross about the same amount of money, but the net on my paycheck looks like a sick joke compared to hers. I have a high stress job where people's lives are literally in my hands, and were it not for help from my wife I would be asking for loans from burger flippers because they have a higher standard of living..

The sytem is NOT fair! I realise that children must be taken care of #1 priority, but I don't need the state mandating how I do that. My ex-wife's standard of living however is quite posh in comparison. She has a brand new car, and just bought a house. Things I will probably never get to do again in my lifetime. How is that fair? I spend all the time I possibly can with my kids, and know all too well the pain of not being able to truly provide things from your own platform when you have the kids. How do you explain to a 10 year old why mommy has all the money, and dad has none. I wonder sometimes if it gives the false impression that dad is a slacker because he has no provisions? While mom sports him around in the brand new car, and takes him to McD's, and Chucky Cheez on a whim.

I even asked the courts to give custodial rights of 2 of my kids to me, and 2 to her(we have 4 obviously) so it was all even in the wash. I raise my children, and take care of their "custodial" needs as much, and as well as she does, and in many ways better! I was a pediatric nurse for 5 years. Nope, all the state considers is that you are a male, you WILL pay. The only exception being if she was some kind of monster that simply couldn't be trusted to raise children. Yet the state's policy basically treats men as incompetent custodians by default. Why be so biased towards making the female custodian of care? If both are equally equipped, and capable it should be 50-50, but then common sense has never been a politicians strong suite. Of course most women aren't going to speak out against this injustice. They're on the receiving end of the looting. Why should they? If someone offered to legally exploit someone for you at no expense, and had already programmed the sheeple society to think it's good, and beneficent why protest?

I think their should be a better system for proof of need, and accountability. I think the time, and resources actually spent on the children by each parent should be taken into consideration. Instead it's just basically "Here's the man's paycheck ma'am. Be glad you were born with ovaries." There is FAR too much room for abuse, and misappropiation of child support funds, no accountability for the mother at all. I would gladly pay MORE child support if there was a reason, and proof that it was necessary for my children. As it stands I know for a fact my child support goes to support QVC, Sears, and Kohl's. IMO child support as it is applied, and managed right now is simply legalized sexist exploitation. Laws do need to exist to secure care for children in family divisions, but the laws need to be fair, and balanced. They are not.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by CaDreamer
 


Wow- it is very ironic that I am reading this thread right now because an hour ago i was responding to a Facebook friend who was saying how her ex-husband owes her $53,000 (yes-that's not a typo) in child support.My response to her was how the hell is this guy not in jail?? Aren't there "deadbeat Dad" laws now? I work my a** off 50 plus hours a week for an ambulance service to make sure my daughter is provided for, I don't go out partying, I can't remember the last time I bought a new pair of sneakers for myself, I live in a one-bedroom apartment, I scrimp and crawl to make sure the ex gets her check every month,etc etc
Now I have no problem with providing for my daughter-she is the light of my life- but last year I asked the ex one month if I could give her $100 less than usual and I would add it to the next month's payment- well she went totally ballistic on me, saying she was going to take me to court, etc etc
I have never "screwed' her out of any money and never will- yet this guy owes 53K and is still walking around?
Oh and just to add my ex makes more money than I do.......
There's no justice in this world.....



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:32 PM
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Here in Canada, the payer of child support claims it as a deduction to their taxable income and the receiver pays tax on the income received.

So it balances out accordingly.

Maybe the US will catch up with the 21st century some day.
edit on 31-5-2011 by CranialSponge because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by Skippy1138
 


I don't know this from experience, my late wife and I were not able to conceive, but we did adopt.

In Washington I find the child support laws rather odd. If you don't pay you get your drivers license taken away. To me, this is like suspending a child from school for cutting class. The men often lose their jobs due to losing their license and just end up in more debt. For the unemployed man, he cannot find a job because he can't go look for one.

I believe if you make a child, it is your responsibility. But I think the laws need to be reformed. I think we need to move away from penalizing people for not paying, and possibly making future payment impossible, and work to make laws that will aimed at making them pay.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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courts leave very lil options for fathers
when passing judgements against
fathers for child support.

a lot of fathers have resorted to taking
matters into their own hands. When faced
with divorce, they murder the wife and kids
then commit suicide in a ritualistic murder-suicide
scenario.

Others just commit suicide cuz the courts
pass a monetary judgement against the father
without any considerations that the amount
is quite more than the father even makes
or earns as a living. It becomes
a death sentence.

The kids suffer without a father for the rest
of their life cuz a judge passed judgement
on him without question.

it is unfair and illegal in my opinion.

"Suicide by wife" is a growing phenomenon
cuz men have no options but death or
imprisonment for something they cannot
rectify.

There is no such thing as equal rights
in a divorce court. The mom always wins (99%).
And some fathers would rather die than
accept an illegal court ruling to which
they have no voice.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by CaDreamer
 


Your income is your income, and that is what you are taxed on. Personally, I don't think there should be any deduction at all for children, and giving a tax incentive broken homes is not the answer either.

Having said that. I am no fan of taxes in the first place, so I guess I am walking on both sides of the argument here.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


Well Boon,if you decide to have children,someone has to pay. Unfortunately Women are picked over men in custody cases almost all the time. Why you may ask? Because its gender bias in a free society. It is believed men are the breadwinners. And they are. Is it fair? No. Is it equality? No. Now,I know many women and a lot of deadbeat dads. I know men that pay,and shrug the responsibility of fathering their child,using the anger of not winning custody,and the result is children not having a dad. I know women that have children JUST for child support,and the tax incentives. Its a wicked game,and the children lose all the time.Think about this. 150000 people paying 500 a week in child support,to the child support agency. Understand this though. They pay,but the money doesnt go to the children right away. It sits in the child support fund for 2 weeks. Yes,that's right,it collects INTEREST,not for the child,but for the state. Not to mention paperwork fees,that amount to hundreds of dollars quarterly.Fall behind on your child support,they can take your state and federal refunds also. Really,the courts can care less who has the child. They care about the money being generated. I ask anyone who is paying child support. Ask a Judge the next time what your child's name is..... Guaranty hes going to have to look it up.............



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by CaDreamer
 


Thank you for paying your child support.

There's not much else I can contribute.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:05 AM
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many states make it mandatory that if a couple
gets divorced and children are involved, then
child support becomes mandatory by law.

My answer to this scenario would be
to make a different classification of
divorced.

A de Facto state of Divorce where no
financial obligations are mandatory
but requested.

Most mothers abuse the system and
thusly if both can agree to a de facto
Divorce then it wipes out the laws making
child support mandatory by law.
Of course, fathers would not be able
to interfere with the child's development
until they reach 16 or 18 or legal age.

But I could see this as an alternative
for the regular one state of divorce.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:07 AM
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As far as child support in general goes, it should only be state mandated in certain cases. Basically, when the man agrees to it. But he can't change his mind later on down the road. Short of that, I really don't see why the courts should force a man to pay money to a woman to support a child. Particularly when the system is already so biased towards women and women are certainly not held to that same standard.

If the child is the product of a wedded union, that is a legal contract and the issue of support should be decided in the divorce proceedings. But if the man is the better provider for the children, then the man should also be favored for custody.

If the couple is not married, then I really don't see how ANY legal obligation can be held to the man to financially support a child.


+4 more 
posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:14 AM
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I also do not think it should be the father's
financial responsibility to house the ex-wife's
new boyfriend who moves into the house
with them and eats the same food she buys
for the kids from the child support money
you send her.

That's not right !!!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:14 AM
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The only way I would ever pay a set amount for support is if I had no intention of being a part of that child's life, but also didn't feel tricked into being an unwilling father. Short of that, I see no reason why a father can't buy things directly that the child needs.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:20 AM
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This question should never have to be asked.

Jail,you feed and cloth your kids or you go to jail.

if you are a woman who thinks you can blow through men and relationships leaving a trail genetic gifts from your playmates ,YOU ALSO GO TO JAIL.

we are better off taking these children into state care and jailing with a hard labour component all irresponsible parents.

A man would only get one chance to screw up and he would be in jail for 18yrs giving birth to happy dreams for someone named bubba.a woman would only give birth once irresponsibly and she would be in jail knitting bikinis for someone named Birtha.

Not properly caring for each child you create is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY,NOT JUST A CRIME AGAINST A CHILD.

The entire world is charged with caring foe these hundreds of millions of irresponsibly sired children.

Jail,immediatly and if you repeat then you get fixed or castrated.

These are human beings being abused.

And hard labour in prison,lets farm these deadbeats out to the highest bidders,work their arses to the bloody bone.

No rights in prison,there are no rights for hungry abused children.

No women ,no children.

Men must be jailed and women must be jailed if they abuse children through neglect.

And repeat offenders must be castrated or fixed.

And the children that have been abandoned MUST BE CARED FOR IN A MUCH BETTER WAY BY SOCIETY THAN THEY HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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I stood up for my infant son who was being neglected by his mother, who also physically abused me after he was born.

I never touched her, never been in serious trouble, loved my son and wanted to be a full time dad who was capable of raising him in a safe environment.


None of that mattered... she's mom... she gets custody. I get four days a month with him and 15% of my income the next 16 years goes directly to her. If my little boy didn't need me I would have lost my mind by now and done something even stupider than knocking her up... I know one day I'm going to pick him up or drop him off and she'll be waitng with whoever she is screwing at the time, I know at that point ill be going to jail.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by CaDreamer
 


I can only come to the table of this discussion with my own experiences.

My ADHD son has a daughter - he also had a job paying good money and caught up on his child support.

My son's ex wife called his employer and got him fired. He found this out from a person there he use to work with.

Now he is jobless (thanks to his ex wife she cut her own throat because she enjoys fighting even more than money).

When my ex daughter in law began to divorce my son, I begged her not to draw this out into a nasty hateful fight using her daughter as a pawn. I offered her $1,500 a month if I could remain in my grand daughter's life...........what happened between her and my son is none of my business.

If my ex daughter in law had played her cards right and not ignored "joint custody" rulings, and allowed us, my son, my husband and I to see our beloved sweetie every two weeks, she and our grand daughter would now be living rent free in a three bedroom, 1-1/2 bath with full basement townhome.

But, my ex daughter in law used the exact same lawyer her own father used against her mother who promptly could not take the nasty tactics and abandon her four children to a very mean man that enjoyed fighting with everyone around him.

Case in point, the only people that came to his funeral were my husband's family and two or three friends. I never went to a funeral where hardly anyone showed up but her father was just like her a mean hateful sob.

My son is looking for work but he does not have a college degree and is ADHD, jobs are getting harder to come by.

For Christmas each year we buy our grand daughter 400-500 USD worth of clothes to take her through winter.

I also buy her summer wardrode............but like the brand new 80.00 coat we bought her and gave to her before winter set in, as they met in the parking lot, my son's ex wife tore the winter coat off of our grand daughter and threw it at my son..............she would rather fight than have her daughter receive anything from us.

The court is beginning to wise up but it has taken the "system" eight years to figure out this woman is a psychopath just like her father who refused to see his grand daughter until 2 weeks before he died on his death bed.

Don't talk to me about child support.

My son has always paid his child support when his ex wife hasn't royally screwed with his life making it impossible.

She has contacted his fiancé, his previous employers, she has stalked him, and even her lawyer has commented to my son's lawyer "she is squirrely".

Again, I love my grand daughter (I am the paternal grand mother) so much with all my heart and soul, I would move heaven and earth for her.

She just turned ten and still cries when it's time to go back to mama.

If my daughter in law had simply just made this an amicable divorce and not used her daughter as a pawn in her vicious games, she literally would be the proud owner of a townhome in a nice neighborhood - we have a ten room home in another town.

My ex daughter in law is insane with jealousy that her parents could care less about our beautiful grand daughter, and that because she was running around after work going to school and kareoking at bars every night after work, my son would come home after work and took care of our grand daughter from birth up until two when the twitch took off for three months and disappeared with our grand daughter.

In short, because my son is the one who cared for our grand daughter she developed a bond with her father that usually the mother has........mom again was too busy going to school and going to bars to sing almost every night. She also couldn't change a poopie diaper because they made her sick.

My son took care of our grand daughter the first two years of her life and their bond, even to this day drives my ex daughter in law crazy.

Yes father's should pay child support, but young women now are playing real head games and men can't seem to think with the head on their shoulders and pick real spoiled mean princesses.

In short, people should live togeather for awhile to see if the relationship works out.
Then, if it does and they want kids, marry................marriage is a very legally binding contract and once children are involved it gets really tricky.

Many women now are using the system to muck over the men............men and their children are now being used as pawns by manipulating women and the real victims are the millions of children now being raised in a one parent house hold because two adults couldn't hold off having children before logically making sure their marriage is stable and going to last and that they can provide for their children.

If you want kids fine, but make sure you have a stable marriage - people muck around like dogs, get pregnant like pigs and cows without bothering to really get to know the person they are sharing their gene pool with and don't take the time or effort to make sure they are going to be able to provide a stable enviroment for their off spring.

Why in sam hell do you think we have so many prisons? So much sadness in the world, so many mean vicious, maladjusted adults now?

Two weeks ago I got to see my grand daughter for two days, it was the first time in almost six months. She actually asked me to sleep in the same bed as her because she missed me for so long. During the night she turned towards me and hugged me and said, "Gram, thank you for sleeping with me, I missed you and Grandpa so".

My ex daughter in law (again) flaunted "joint custody" ruling for almost six months and the system is just now beginning to take action against her.................but it's taken eight years and my grand daughter says she hates her mother which is a sad thing for a kid to say.

And if you have a daughter that wears a size 12-14 u2u me as we now have 4-500 USD worth of clothes and six pairs of shoes & boots size 3-4 that our grand daughter was never allowed to wear she has now out grown.

I am now putting in a trust fund money for her vs buying her clothes.

One last detail..............my son's "wow mom ain't she beautiful" spoiled princess tried to get her hands on that townhome, I would have gladly given the townhouse to her if she had kept our grand daughter away from her hateful vengence she has unleashed upon us, but after her games, we showed the court the receipts that my husband and I had literally paid for this townhome and we were award the townhouse this itch tried to steal from us.......................yep, this little princess could have been living / owning a 1600 SF townhome if she had simply been nice and not made my son and my grand daugher's life a living hell these past eight years.

Men, beware, be very aware and careful where you dip your wick because many women now are into the "give me a big fancy queen for a day wedding and give me the baby experience" and like a black widow she than eats her mate alive.

Women have changed, many are very spoiled and self centered..............and it is our children that suffer.

I've been married to the same wonderful man for now almost 37 years because I was raised to give and take.

Our laws are prejudice towards the woman when 80% of all divorces end with main custody being given to the mother and joint custody is a joke, if mom decides to honor the court ruling papa gets to see his kid(s) for 48 hours every two weeks.

Again, you young men out there, be very very careful..............many young women today are vicious harpies and will take you to the cleaners.

Some choices you make will alter not only your life but those who have to live with the consequences of your actions.

Men, please try to start think with your other head, the one on top of your neck and not the one inbetween your legs.

The last words my grand daughter spoke to me were, "Grammie, when is the court going to ask me who I want to live with? Papa and X (his fiance') love me, not mama, she's not capable of love.

We have never talked badly about her mother, I have told her "you will always love her because she is your mother" but you may not like the way she is acting or what she is doing."

She replied, "Yes she drives me crazy, I want to live with my papa".

And my son is a lot more strict with her than my ex daughter in law who lets the TV babysit her.

My son restricts TV, plays games with her, helps her with her school work because mom is too busy on the internet giving paralegal advice, going out with friends and on her eighth boy friend.
edit on 1-6-2011 by ofhumandescent because: grammar and my heart aches so much from rehashing this I can't see through the tears.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by jstanthrno1
I know one day I'm going to pick him up or drop him off and she'll be waitng with whoever she is screwing at the time, I know at that point ill be going to jail.


that's right,
ole jethro is in your wife's kitchen
eating up that food you bought
for your child and getting the
desert to boot.

nice system we got ain't it ???





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