Men and Child support. What is the answer?

What I don't understand is why some women will fight tooth and nail to keep the child then, demand child support... AND THE FATHER HAS TO PAY IT. If you want the kid so bad then YOU need to take financial responsibility for it, not the losing party. My friend had 2 sisters and their mom received child support for them, it was almost like 1200 or so a month. That took care of their house rent and food, the mom only worked to pay her car note and get clothes while their dad suffered financially. Being a single mom with 3 kids and a man giving you enough child support to provide your needs sounds REAL difficult.

I think Child support should be either an agreement or a punishment (Abusive husband/wife, walking out on the family etc etc). Nothing else.

Originally posted by hillynilly

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Here in Canada, the payer of child support claims it as a deduction to their taxable income and the receiver pays tax on the income received.

So it balances out accordingly.

Maybe the US will catch up with the 21st century some day.

edit on 31-5-2011 by CranialSponge because: (no reason given)

Your forgetting of course the millions of dead beat dad's that
A. Work under the table and doesn't pay taxes.
B. Doesn't work at all...

According to a 7-year study done by Arizona State University Professor Sanford Braver, Ph.D., which resulted in his book, "Divorced Dads--Shattering the Myths", he found that less than 5% of those that owed child support are true deadbeat dads-the ones with the younger trophy wives and sports cars, who don't want to pay anything. The truth of the matter, is that according to the Federal Gov't. General Accounting Office, Report # GAO/HRD-92-39FS, pg. 19, over 66% of those owing child support can't pay because they are unemployed, underemployed, disabled, dead, and in some cases the mothers don't want support.

Get the facts right..


Your solution seems easy enough when your dealing with only what 35 millions in canada?

America has 300 million.

It would not balance as your system has.

Our child support system in the US is a system of fraud.

What many people do not realize is that child support in this country can be applied before there is any proof that you are even the father of the child you are being asked to pay support for. In my case, I fathered a child as a result of a one night stand in Kansas. Prior to finding out the women was pregnant I had moved to Pennsylvania. When I returned to the State of Kansas I was hit with an order for support.

I spent 13 years tracking the mother from state to state to state trying to get a paternity test which was continuously denied by the courts. Eventually I did get a test when their mother was deemed unfit and was arrested in Portland Oregon. Now the child is in State custody. I still have to pay child support, provide insurance, and the mother pays absolutely nothing at all. My daughter does not want to live with me, she wants to stay in Portland and I can not blame her. Her mother has moved her from state to state her whole life. Now she finally has friends and simply does not want to move again and start over. I can understand that. However, as I started the process anyway of getting custody I was shocked to find that the State literally went out of their way to make it as difficult for me as possible. The State has no interest in actually letting me take care of my own child, instead they just want my money.

Me... the Father who spent over a decade tracking his child down, paying child support even though I did not know if she was my child, is now treated like a criminal if I want to get custody of my own child now that Mom has screwed up her life so much. How am I treated like a criminal you ask? Well in order to get custody I have to submit to random drug testing at my own expense. I must take parenting classes, at my own expense. I will be subject to a state employee visiting my home to make sure everything is ok, at my own expense. I am expected to do all these things, at my own expense, while I still continue to pay child support. Want to take a wild guess at how much I pay in child support? If you guessed 48% of my income AFTER taxes... you would be correct.

reply to post by Daedal


Radical feminists who build women's shelters, provide crisis nurseries, crisis nannies, and birth control along with free counselling, and help with negotiating the system.

Those fraking harlots.

reply to post by CaDreamer

Kudos for making the payments, and I commiserate with you on your woes.
Has anyone yet mentioned deadbeat moms? I have certainly had to chase my ex around for those support dollars from time to time.

reply to post by CaDreamer


Maybe if they gave them to the Fathers more often or made both parents pay 1/2 and get 1/2 a year each where the kids keep the house and the pares move in and out. The one with them takes care of the bills...

The court system is skewed, hypocritical and some kind of revenge factor against men. Most men don;t rape the women yet are expected to pay 100% of birthing costs. I talked my Judge into she was a willing adult participant and she got 1/2 the bills and costs.

Courts should give the child(ren) to the one financially able to support them if other factors are the same. They then demonize and criminalize poor dads. You cannot travel outside the us if you owe child support. (Debtors prison) You cannot get a drivers license so how do you get to work to pay, so then you are in jail for not paying support or driving on a bad license to get to work to pay. YOU ARE GOING TO JAIL!

Up is down and down is up and common sense aint as common as its name suggests!

Thats good of you OP. If I had planned to have children then I would like to say I would do the same. My main issue with the whole system is the women that take advantage of it, get knocked up just to drain some guy of money while putting a minimal amount of it into the child. Having children should be the will of the mother AND the father, and a statement of intent (and thus equal custody of the child) should be necessary by birth if one plans to collect child support in the event of a breakup. If one states that they do no want a child and the other is forcing them prior to the time that an abortion is possible, they should not be required to take care of the child.

The mother can choose to have the baby by herself if that is the case. It gets a little murky when you get into the father wanting the child and the mother not, since she is the one who will have to carry it around for 9 months.

Originally posted by CaDreamer
If the government wants men to do their part as i have they need to add incentives to the process or dead beats will win the battle eventually.

When it comes to deadbeat parents, they make good fathers and mothers look like outcasts.

Keep one thing in mind - there IS a light at the end of the tunnel. Hold fast.

reply to post by Binder


Binder Its like Your me right now.. Ever thing you said is basically what i feel about it.. I work away some times 7 days a week for min wage and only see 1/16th of my check it all goes to her.. Her has a new car and a House where i am forced to live with Roommates so i can Live a semi well #y life..

It sucks And some thing needs to be done but like yous aid Are thos Geting the loot ever going to give it up because its unFair seems unlikely to me

Does anyone see a prob with a simple CHILDSUPPORT CARD. Which tracks all items, mom and dad can see how money is spent if overages are occuring showing signs of money being spent elsewhere. As it is kinda big brotherish the CARD is it a good idea and if not why not.

Just be glad that you do not reside in Va. I hurt my back real bad, blew out the L4,L5 area and could not feel anything below my navel. I had to have 4 operations, and the end result was a fusion at that area. I was divorced and making 6 figures and did not mind paying $1000. per week, per child which = 2. During my recuperation period of well over a year and not working, you can see how soon it took me to become in arrears. I had to go to court in Northern Va. ( where my children resided at the time) and the damn judge ordered me to jail for 1, ONE year. I had to serve 365 days of hell and may I add, without any pain medications. The court system that revolves around the whole child support thing is just a bunch of $hit. During my time in jail, I lost my home, respect of peers in my type of business, and destitute. I tried to make my payments on time and not being able to work was no excuse from the judge. That S.O.B. did not give a rats a$$ about my condition or shape I was in. When my lawyer told the judge that I had to have my medication to relieve the pain the judge said that he would not allow Narcotics in a jail environment. Go figure!

Of course I forgot to mention something else about Child Support in the US. There are countless cases where people are forced to pay for children that are not even theirs.

Like this guy!

Who is stuck paying child support because he accidently signed for some paperwork that came to his home from someone with a similar name as himself. His request for testing in denied routinely. Even though the state knows full well he is not the father, and it gets even better, the real father in this case claims he has had the child for several years and supports the child himself. Yet this other man is forced to continue to pay child support and in fact has been jailed when he has fallen behind in payments.

Here is another case of of Georgia where a man was released from jail after serving one year for failure to pay child support. The catch? The child is not even his.

Gerogia man released

and this case is one of my personal favorites because it is absolutely the most insane, absurd thing I have ever read when it comes to child support. My question... if a women performs oral sex on you and uses your semen to impregnate herself without your knowledge, are you liable to pay child support? The answer apparently is yes. Welcome to this case of two Doctors.
Man receives oral sex, ordered to pay child support

They had a fairly short relationship. Planned on getting married. The Male refused to have intercourse with her until they were married because he did not want a child born out of wedlock. 5 months later he finds out his bride to be was already married to someone else, still not divorced, and had been lying to him about it. He ends the relationship. Later on, he is slapped with child support papers and finds out that the Female performed oral sex on him, saved the semen and used it to impregnate herself. Some of the legal arguments in this case are just as ridiculous as the story itself. I will highlight one just to give you an idea..

Dr. Phillips argued that his ex-fiancé took his property, his sperm, without his permission to conceive a child. Dr. Irons countered by asserting the sperm was a gift: Dr. Phillips delivered it to her with the intention that she keep it because if he really wanted to retain his semen, he would have put on a condom and “kept its contents”. The court agreed with Dr. Irons: Dr. Phillips cannot claim he was deprived of his property because he did not intend that the semen be returned.

So in closing....

Our Child Support System has nothing to do with protecting Children or supporting Children. It is a fraudulent system top to bottom.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Those deadbeat moms that refuse to keep a job for more than 2 months, yet are still able to pay the bills? Im in the boat with you man. I dont bother trying to get a dime out of my ex though. Whats the point?

MOTF!

Originally posted by MrWendal
Of course I forgot to mention something else about Child Support in the US. There are countless cases where people are forced to pay for children that are not even theirs.

WOOOO thats the sickest of all
remembers checking my seeds for LIGHTS since I held them both first

Originally posted by Binder
reply to post by CaDreamer

 

My friend you are preaching to Noah about the flood! The only way I make it is that about a year after my divorce I found a good woman, and again have a shared household. We are both in the same profession, and gross about the same amount of money, but the net on my paycheck looks like a sick joke compared to hers. I have a high stress job where people's lives are literally in my hands, and were it not for help from my wife I would be asking for loans from burger flippers because they have a higher standard of living..

The sytem is NOT fair! I realise that children must be taken care of #1 priority, but I don't need the state mandating how I do that. My ex-wife's standard of living however is quite posh in comparison. She has a brand new car, and just bought a house. Things I will probably never get to do again in my lifetime. How is that fair? I spend all the time I possibly can with my kids, and know all too well the pain of not being able to truly provide things from your own platform when you have the kids. How do you explain to a 10 year old why mommy has all the money, and dad has none. I wonder sometimes if it gives the false impression that dad is a slacker because he has no provisions? While mom sports him around in the brand new car, and takes him to McD's, and Chucky Cheez on a whim.

I even asked the courts to give custodial rights of 2 of my kids to me, and 2 to her(we have 4 obviously) so it was all even in the wash. I raise my children, and take care of their "custodial" needs as much, and as well as she does, and in many ways better! I was a pediatric nurse for 5 years. Nope, all the state considers is that you are a male, you WILL pay. The only exception being if she was some kind of monster that simply couldn't be trusted to raise children. Yet the state's policy basically treats men as incompetent custodians by default. Why be so biased towards making the female custodian of care? If both are equally equipped, and capable it should be 50-50, but then common sense has never been a politicians strong suite. Of course most women aren't going to speak out against this injustice. They're on the receiving end of the looting. Why should they? If someone offered to legally exploit someone for you at no expense, and had already programmed the sheeple society to think it's good, and beneficent why protest?

I think their should be a better system for proof of need, and accountability. I think the time, and resources actually spent on the children by each parent should be taken into consideration. Instead it's just basically "Here's the man's paycheck ma'am. Be glad you were born with ovaries." There is FAR too much room for abuse, and misappropiation of child support funds, no accountability for the mother at all. I would gladly pay MORE child support if there was a reason, and proof that it was necessary for my children. As it stands I know for a fact my child support goes to support QVC, Sears, and Kohl's. IMO child support as it is applied, and managed right now is simply legalized sexist exploitation. Laws do need to exist to secure care for children in family divisions, but the laws need to be fair, and balanced. They are not.

I feel for you. My mother screwed the hell out of my father when I was growing up. Just remember that your kids won't forget what you did for them, and your kids won't forget what their mother did either. I know I sure as hell won't. The system is bias.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by Daedal

 

Radical feminists who build women's shelters, provide crisis nurseries, crisis nannies, and birth control along with free counselling, and help with negotiating the system.

Those fraking harlots.

They do help abused women alot and do some good for the children too.
They also coach women in the psychology of abused women and how to react in mediation and court.
I wouldn't call them harlot though, I doubt they get there.

If you look back through some of my posts/responses. I have claimed for years now that there would be a war on women who live the better life by walking on the backs of men. Feminists use women's rights as battering rams to break men down to their knees financially, spiritually and mentally. I have always known there would be a breaking point.....I can just see it coming. The answer to this is NOT simple.

As for the women who are screwing guys in court for heavy child support payments, while they (themselves) have to pay nothing...or at least do not have to account to the government nearly every cent of everything made and upon not paying (because of hard times or the inability to pay such sums requested)....end up in and out of jail, without a car to find a job (usually a court mandate) or passport and because of having to go to jail...They are lucky to have a 25% chance of getting a job at all.

So, the courts favor women by making the men pay child support which has to be accounted for and women have to pay nothing at all. They Bi*ch and complain about having to raise the kid (the one they fought for in court and that they try to control you with),.....they Bi*ch about having to carry a child for 9 (and giving birth, AHEM! Epidural ! ) months while making sure that your next 18-20 some years are a living hell in every way imagined.

This is all because of those women who do this to men are government pawns to keep men distracted, controlled and in an everlasting limbo of depression. Why? Simple. The NWO wants our country and the more broken down men thre are....the less to fight for out country. Feminism is just another tool of divide and conquer that our great country is now known for. Women today, are so comfortable with the way things turn out in court that they get pregnant by a man JUST to get the money. They use the child support on themselves and then come back asking you to by the kid new shoes. They are bad mothers these days because they can't juggle a job and motherhood.

I could go on all day with what they do to men. Other men will come on here and "defend" these gold diggers for whatever reason....gay...limp-wristed...coward..whatever the reason, but it's only because they haven't gotten taken through the wringer yet...give it time. I predicted there would be a war on women because men will get fed up with being treated like this. Having to suffer in silence because to speak up about being screwed by a woman is not "manly" or makes you "less than a man".

I am here to tell you that it is not the women themselves that you are suffering from, it is the government who is financing the feminist movement (The Rockefellers to be exact..look it up). Now we have a big problem because what single man can beat the government? No one. If men want to get their dignity back and keep some of their money they haave to do what the women did in their movement SPEAK OUT AGAINST INJUSTICE DESPITE WHAT THE WOMEN CALL YOU TO GET YOU TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. SPEAK UP AND BE HEARD!...or keep quiet and be hurt. I don't care what women say about or to me. They are the immediate problem, so why do I care what comes out of their mouths. they are our financial enemies. That said, I will say that I wish no harm to women physically, I will not participate in anything that will harm a woman, but I will campaign against those who abuse the system for financial gain, simply because the pendulum has swung in their favor. Can you hear the men coming, women? Have you not noticed that your manipilations that have worked for many years have fallen upon numb, overworked men? Men who have finally weighed the bonuses of sex against the tyranny of a decrepid, moneyless, sexless, suicide-favoring life, bestowed upon them by women everywhere who have offered nothing but empty promises of sex and companionship...yet delivered nothing but agony.

The future can be changed, yet as always, I know it won't because one party always has a greener side of the fenceline that they are not willing to give up in trade for mediocrity. That is why I know there will be a war of the sexes. Especially in a recession and the "expected" depression...that WILL happen soon. Men ignored this abuse for so long...but that was when times were good. Times are rough now and will only get rougher. How do you women think angry men everywhere are going to deal with this type of golddigging and going in and out of jail, having their children used to control them. I will tell you how they will take it. I hope you women with all of your "Girl Power", "I am woman, hear me roar" and "I am a strong woman, I don't need a man" talk is exactly like you say it is. What I see happening in the future, not as a prophet, but as someone who knows how history repeats itself, it's no more than an observation of a pattern that will attest to the inevitable war of the sexes.

I am in no way participating in violence against women nor am I condoning it. I don't want this to happen, but when men get backed into a corner they always come out swinging. I wish things could be different but the government is feeding this problem and there is NO way to deal with this unless men stand up and ask questions like....."why can a woman have a right to her body, concerning a kid and murder it so she doesn't have to deal with it, but men have no rights at all...if they have the right to kill a kid because they don't want it...we should have the right not to have to pay for it if it was no planned for us either." Women are notorious for trapping men....so you can see what I am getting at. They do this on purpose to get money all the time.

My ex-wife did it just so that I would be trapped into paying off her school loan. Which I did. She is the reason why I am out everywhere speaking my mind about what is going on and damn to what they think or say about it. There are women everywhere who don't do this and I respect them. You know who you are. But women everywhere else does do this and you know who you are too....I disrespect you! There is no way to fix this man, just have some patience and you will see the problem will end one way or another. because of my ex-wife, life doesn't even have any meaning for me anymore....I am just waiting for death and I couldn't care less. Where I go when I die, chances are she won't be there so wherever it is...it's better than here. I won't commit suicide or anything....no good reason for that,....but when I die even the worms of the earth will please me more than she ever did. To any agency who is looking for any reason to call anyone a terrorist, I am not the guy you are looking for. I don't condone violence nor will a participate in any against women. I have merely pointed out a future (politely) that will most likely happen. *Great country we USED TO live in, now everytime you write anything, you have to put a disclaimer so you don't get arrested for a misconstrued point of view from someone in Homeland Security.* I wish the Berlin wall was still up so I could go live on the Eastern side of it where there was more freedom.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


Actually a card would be a problem as you would have to split up payments for food, water, clothes, education, recreation, rent, Etc., then you would have to break down the fraction of what went where.
It would be a major pain for both parents.
I say all courts unless if proof is available just do a 50/50 time split and no support.
If one parent cannot make it, they can refer custody to the capable parent.
Plus if Fathers were not nailed to the cross and screwed over so much by the courts, there may not be as many "deadbeat Dads".

The solution would be for non-married couples to use condoms, birth control..

DO NOT HAVE KID'S until you can afford them..

MAKE SURE she does not get pregnant..
If you do not want kid's with her.

You guys should of known about these crazy women...
I am glad that I have other men to take advice from
and hear these awful stories so I do not make the
same mistake...

For married-men that were divorced by their wife and took them for
all they got, well I really DO feel bad for you guys
and think the system does screw you...

The majority of all this BS though is from un-married couples
playing house, or being too lazy to put a condom on, or
too dumb and forgets to take her pill.

It's all about a federal program called Title 4 D.

Check out the book, Friend of the Court Enemies of the Family.