Stealing From Work and Corporations...Good or Bad?

reply to post by MegaMind



But you are advocating an even greater devaluation of the dollar. A "living wage" for bottom tier jobs is the equivalent of a minimum wage. Meaning higher costs for the company and consumer. If the Burger flipper is making $15/hr for an entire year he is making $31,200 a year full time. Now imagine a job in that same company that required a high school degree. How about a college degree? Now how about a graduate degree? What you want to pay a bottom tier job is what many companies pay new college graduates to start. It makes no sense unless you want us to move to a communist government.

reply to post by ViperChili


You make some mighty big assumptions don't you?

I am self employed and practice exactly what I preach. I have a great deal of moral fiber in all my dealings with my clients and they know it and respect me for it. They are loyal - very loyal because I am always fair and realize many things are more important than just making money.

You can be moral and make money or to you are they mutually exclusive?

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by ViperChili

 

then were did those starving millions come from ?
what are there bodies made from dirt, air, prayers

no their bodies and all human bodies are made out of FOOD!

but some prefer to throw away/destroy food if there is no profit to made.

go to the back of the class

You're right.

To solve the starvation problem, we should just tell all those starving people to eat each other.

We air drop some nice dijon and a few bottles of ketchup, and we can be done wasting money on the 3rd world.

How big is your farm? I assume you have quite a few acres that you farm and give away crops for free right?

reply to post by MegaMind


Humor me, lets hear some examples of this mighty fine moral fiber you have that you practice in business.

If you are speaking of not ripping them off, or stealing from them, thats not exactly "moral fiber".

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by MegaMind

 

Why don't you start your own business where you are concerned about "moral fiber" moreso than profits.

Lets see how long you last.

Last time I checked, moral fiber and ethics didn't pay the bills.

Does your landlord or mortgage company accept moral fiber or kind words in lieu of cash?

Or do you pay them in puppies and ice cream cones? Maybe vials of valuable unicorn piss?

Cmon you've pretty much just made MegaMinds point when you say moral fiber doesnt pay the bills. He's saying thats the problem.

But, it seems, according to you its not up to us to look out for each other or to pay wage that make sure each other is taken care of. Somehow the unskilled and poor wil magically find a way to survive or just die. Don't the poor and unskilled deserve life just as much as you, a big shot business owner? Or do they deserve to starve because they don't have skills to acquire fancy green paper from a morally corrupt economy?

How long would your family last if you acted like a businessman? How long would they love you? How long would it take them to actively steal and work against your tyrranical, amoral economic control?

reply to post by phatpackage


my maternal grand father [sicilian immigrant] when he was in the "construction business" [9 bags of cement for the price of 10] was totally in agreement with you.

i am not.

and many are out their missing a hand when their only crime was thinking of their family first.

get a clue and be carefull what you wish for

the worm often turns and empires crumble

Originally posted by rubbertramp
i think the word 'corporation' should just be removed from this argument.
this is really about stealing from those who did better than others concerning income.
in other words, if a person is struggling and poorer than the o.p., then they have a right to steal from the author of the o.p.

And do tell how do they "do better"? You want to remove corporation from the argument, but corporation IS the argument. A person that "does better" within the system reinforces the system and by extension becomes part of the problem. It becomes a question of ideology based on different sets of morals. On one hand the corporation is lauded for being (or becoming) successful regardless of the means it took to get there. On the other hand corporations are demonized exactly because of the means use to become successful. In the situation of stealing, both parties would be guilty, except one is coming from an individual and the other is coming from a group of individuals.

Corporations by nature must sustain continuous growth in order to meet their quarterly profits, so by extension must find ways to cut corners. If that means outsourcing so be it. If that means destroying the land to acquire materials so be it. If that means interfering with the public's ability to shape their furture to interference with elections and legislation so be it. If that means laying off workers so be it.

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by MegaMind

 

Why don't you start your own business where you are concerned about "moral fiber" moreso than profits.

Lets see how long you last.

Last time I checked, moral fiber and ethics didn't pay the bills.

Thank you for proving my point entirely. And you have nerve to criticize others about morality when you yourself believe being in business exempts you from all morality because "that's just the way it works". You are part of the problem not some disgruntal employee stealing a pen.

reply to post by doctornamtab


It is up to YOU to look out for yourself. I have no obligation to look out for you, nor do you have one to look out for me. It's called personal responsibility.

You have an internet connection. That means you have a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips. You can LEARN a new skill instead of posting here. Then you wouldn't have to lie to get another garbage job as you so eloquently put it in a previous post.

What are you doing right now to improve your life? Seriously, at this very moment, what steps are you taking to avoid working garbage jobs in the future?

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


Morals are entirely subjective.

My morals state that I do what I can to support my family so that my son doesn't have to struggle in life like I did.

My morals do not include you, or anyone I do not care about.

reply to post by ViperChili


No what is it then?

I have not made money simply because it was in the best interest of the client to do something else. I made a suggestion that I did not benefit from directly at the time. I could have made money and it would not have been wrong of me to do so another words it would not have been a con.

Its just that it was not really in the best interest of my client. It would have been in my best interest if making money is all I cared about.

This has happened many times. My client knows it too. He knows I was looking out for him over myself. This makes them loyal and in turn I of course benefit because they keep coming to me.

making money and being moral are not mutually exclusive

reply to post by Revolution-2012


Really? That's the best you could come up with?

You can't even use apostrophes, here's a big boy hint on life, buddy, learn how to write properly

You want to blame "big corporations " for your lack of success? That's just laughable!

First off, you do know that minimum wage isnt designed for survival. Its a supplemental income. Minimum wage is a guaranteed minimum income and is a form or system of social welfare provision.

Had you known that, you wouldn't be arguing about the " big corporations" greed. A class of simple business and economics would do you loads of good.

I'm far more intelligent

If the above quote is true, then why did you settle for mediocrity? Skilled labor and intelligent individuals are needed far more than the lowly worker. Sounds again, like a lack of initiative on your part?

Take your inability to read to another thread, partner.

I read just fine thank you. Personal insults ( as you claim , which btw, an observation is far from attacking you ) does nothing for your argument. Further, it solidifies that your complaints have no merit. But nice try there kid.

doctornamtab

As a business owner I must say you are seriously misguided. I feel like I am one of a dying breed. I actually care about my employees. I own a multi million dollar a year business. You have no clue how much it costs to keep the doors open. I do everything in my power to provide for my people. I constantly search for the best health coverage for the least amount of money and max out (by law) my contribution to their 401k's.

When you steal from your place of business you are not hurting the "company". As the guy on top I can attest to the fact that the survival of the company is paramount to all other concerns. It is equal in importance to one's children. You see my friend the dollars that are left over after the government gets its pound of flesh is earmarked for raises, bonuses and capitol improvements. Guess what, if there is no money after the federal and state rape there will be no raises. You are stealing from your co-workers. I will move heaven and earth to help my people but if there is no money left over after all the bills are paid it is what it is.

I have caught people over the years stealing and fired them on the spot. One thing you fail to take into consideration is the people who work with you. I say that because the least tenured person I have working for me has 8 years under his belt. My most tenured employee has over 20 years. My employees know that I give as much as possible. Above and beyond raises and bonuses. I care about them and their families. Without these exceptionally talented people the company would not exist. I tell you this because most normal people hate liars and theives. When people see someone stealing from their company they know deep down your theft will cost them in the end, so they rat out the individual. I have seen it many times.

I read with dispair the many threads on ATS decrying the big bad greedy corporations and their fat cat cigar smoking executives. Well, I am not one of TPTB, or any thing else that I read here. I am just an average guy that worked extremely hard for many years and sacrificed much to get where I am now. My only reward has been the purchase of a 2008 Corvette.

Financially, I have not and will not give myself an increase in pay untill everyone can get one. Its been two years since our last raise. I can't explain it but since the 2008 election my business has dropped of by about 60%. We are fighting and things are looking a little better but not anything like 2005 thru 2008. When you steal from my company you are stealing from your co-workers. You are the lowest of the low. I believe in karma, what goes around comes around and you are not exempt. At the end of the day you will pay in some way.

reply to post by MegaMind


By doing that, you built a customer relationship, thereby insuring future business. That is a good business decision.

Since I was a waiter in my early 20's, I will use this as an example:

A couple comes in the restaurant and notices the special of the day. Lets say it's priced at $50. You, being the employee know the special (like it is in every restaurant) is old food and tastes like crap, but damn it looks and sounds good. They ask about it, you tell them it sucks, and suggest they go with something cheaper. As a result, you know the short term money will be less (since their check wont be as high), but you just guaranteed long term money since they like you and appreciate your honesty.

Long term money is better than short term bigger money 9 times out of 10. Thats why musicians take a lifetime royalty over a big upfront bonus.

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

 

Morals are entirely subjective.

My morals state that I do what I can to support my family so that my son doesn't have to struggle in life like I did.

My morals do not include you, or anyone I do not care about.

So how am I the parasite? Judging by your comments as long as it isn't your family or yourself you couldn't care less. How is that any different from the so called "entitlements" that you villify? Aren't they doing whatever it takes for their family and themselves?

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

Originally posted by rubbertramp i think the word 'corporation' should just be removed from this argument. this is really about stealing from those who did better than others concerning income. in other words, if a person is struggling and poorer than the o.p., then they have a right to steal from the author of the o.p. And do tell how do they "do better"? You want to remove corporation from the argument, but corporation IS the argument. A person that "does better" within the system reinforces the system and by extension becomes part of the problem. It becomes a question of ideology based on different sets of morals. On one hand the corporation is lauded for being (or becoming) successful regardless of the means it took to get there. On the other hand corporations are demonized exactly because of the means use to become successful. In the situation of stealing, both parties would be guilty, except one is coming from an individual and the other is coming from a group of individuals. Corporations by nature must sustain continuous growth in order to meet their quarterly profits, so by extension must find ways to cut corners. If that means outsourcing so be it. If that means destroying the land to acquire materials so be it. If that means interfering with the public's ability to shape their furture to interference with elections and legislation so be it. If that means laying off workers so be it.

the difference i see between us is that i don't consider corps evil because of their nature.
i am against corp. wellfare and bailouts and think it should be a matter of 'the strong will survive'.
i can't just lump all corps into one catagory.
some are much better than others. it would be different to only discuss those on the dow, s&p and nas.
there are good and there are bad, i refuse to clump them all into one.
not all corps are outsourcing and not all are sending their profits offshore.

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by MegaMind

 

By doing that, you built a customer relationship, thereby insuring future business. That is a good business decision.

It is also a moral one. Both my client and I benefit from this. I could just have easily not made the suggestion and my client would not have thought anything less of me and I would still have his business and more of his money. People have a higher priority over money - pretty simple really.

reply to post by scotticus prime


Awesome. Glad to hear from you.

Just so no one gets confused I am not supporting or condoning theft whether by an employee or by an employer that steals labor from people.

reply to post by indigo21


you are confusing theory
with actual practice.

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


No, they aren't.

He never said he was stealing food, since that would be his only source of nutrition for the day.

Stealing for gain and stealing for survival are 2 entirely different creatures.

Stealing because you feel you are "owed" something because you're a loser in life is parasitic behavior.

Stealing a sandwich because you haven't eaten in a week is nowhere near the same thing.

reply to post by doctornamtab

I'm sure you could find a more productive way to stick it to The Man if you just spent a little more time and effort, rather than committing petty thievery against your employers for your own personal gain. Advocating change requires work and sacrifice, not immorally sponging off of the system while feeling all anti-establishment.
Not judging you, it will be your duty to evaluate your behaviour, just giving my 2c