Stealing From Work and Corporations...Good or Bad?

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

Hope you enjoy poverty.

Well, you have made it very clear that someone has to, Rather me then you eh, kid?

I own a small business and I have 8 employees. Our profit margin right now is razor-thin, if they are there at all. Most of my employees make more than I do.

If you worked for me and I caught you stealing, I would not fire you until I had a chance to get a police detective in my office to cuff your sorry ass - I would press charges.

Why don't I steal from work? I don't even take things from my own store unless it's necessary, and it is accounted for in the books. Besides that, it is WRONG, douchebag.

Apparently your parents were equally parasitic as you and didn't teach you any better.

Whatever you think you have to tell yourself to rationalize it, it is still wrong, and illegal. I hope you get caught.

and lets not forget the biggest gang of thieves:


www.cafr1.com...
www.cafr1.com...
www.project.nsearch.com...
CAFRs: The Biggest Secret $60 trillion invested by US government www.abovetopsecret.com...
The One Thing they will not discuss, CAFR www.abovetopsecret.com...

NYC (just the city)is siting on 2.2 trillion Dollars of investment capital (liquid assets, stocks bonds etc)
the US-gov is sitting on over 64 trillion dollars.

who's the real thief here?

Originally posted by DuceizBack

Originally posted by doctornamtab
reply to post by DuceizBack

 

Duciez you dont tip?

You're more of a thief than I am! Hahaha!

You're stealing labor from the poor, just like corporations do. Servers and bartenders make $3 to 4 an hour. When its not busy they make $20 ALL DAY. Poor have to stick together and support each other. Thats the only way to get some economic justice round here.

You can probably guess what servers, chefs and bartenders do to your food and drinks when you refuse to tip them.

Isn't 20% of your bill a small price to pay for the peace of mind? For knowing your food contains what's on the menu and not whats on the floor?

You're an idiot.
if that's the case I guess most Japanese citizens are thieves as well.
As they don't tip either.

I can't believe somebody gave you a thumbs up for that dumb comment.
Why should I pay somebody extra simply for doing their job?
Should I also give a little extra tip to cops, mail men, doctors?


I don't drink at bars, so I don't have to worry about them.
Nor do I eat out much, as i'm not a lazy bastard, and I actually know how to cook.

If someone spits on food because they don't get tipped, then they don't deserve too.

edit on 11-5-2011 by DuceizBack because: (no reason given)

Are you 14 years old? Did your older brother show you this site or something? Plenty of other countries don't tip, not just Japan, but it's factored into their wages. Like OP said, servers in America get BELOW minimum wage because it's expected that they'll get tipped. And no, of course you wouldn't tip cops, mail men, doctors... I'm not even going to explain why.

I can imagine the CEO of Wal-Mart or Best Buy reading this thread and laughing at those who think 'stealing from corporations is wrong'. To them, we're the poor scum that propel their evil businesses and they count on the fact that we're good people with good hearts.

Who cares.. let OP do what he wants, and you do what you want. In context, we're talking about tiny amounts of money here, so really it comes down to right and wrong. I'd say you not ever tipping is FAR worse than OP ripping off the system in whatever little way he wants

Originally posted by doctornamtab
Do you steal from work? I do. Every single job I've ever had, except for one. And you know what, I dont feel guilty about it. Not one bit.

How is that leading by example?



If you want to teach someone good moral behavior (corporations, company owners, etc...), would you not want your actions to speak louder than words?

Originally posted by doctornamtab
Why are corporations the only ones who get to steal?

I don't steal from people, I steal from work. There is a difference.

Some person or group of people own the company where you are employed. You are still stealing from people.

"Its not who we are on the inside, but what we do physically that define us."

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by ViperChili

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
reply to post by ViperChili

 

I sound like a loser? You sound like you have no life experience.

"You accept that wage so its your fault"
Why dont you pull your head out of your arse eh? Minimum wage cannot be negociated with - You dont accept it, they'll find someone else who will, simple as that.
As for having more marketable skills? Seriously, get off your high horse. I come from a poor area, i went to a poor school had a poor education, no help from my family.
Everyone deserves a livable wage, you might be suprised just how hard and stressful unskilled work can be.

Yes, you do in fact sound like a loser.

"Whaaaa, I grew up poor, WHaaa I went to a poor school,". Quit making excuses.

Everyone does not deserve a "livable wage".

Humor me, how much should a burger flipper make? $15/hour? $20/hour?

A burger flipper should make A LIVABLE WAGE. Whatever that wage has to be per hour, a burger flipper should make it.

Explain to me why people shouldnt be entitled to a livable wage because i'd love to hear your idiotic thinking on that. Go on, HUMOR ME!

I'll humor you: Burger flipper positions are the kind of jobs filled by high school and college students who are pursuing educations to better themselves toward a career that pays a livable wage. If burger flippers made a livable wage, burgers would cost $15 a copy. You gonna buy a $15 burger? Me either. The burger joints have to be competitive - and profitable, and they can't do that paying burger flippers $20 an hour.

If you are 35 years old and flipping burgers for a living, you should have considered your career options long before now. Perhaps less time blazing and more time studying might have helped when you were in high school.

How's that for idiotic thinking? Consider yourself humored.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


And you should arrest them. Again you are a small business owner (I know how they struggle) and shouldn't tolerate stealing especially if your employees are making more than what you are making. I am pretty confident that they aren't stealing though, but unfortunately there are rotten apples here and there. I just hope you don't equate your business with a larger organization based on share holder profit margins....two different animals.

There are some that say stealing is stealing, and that much is true because you can't argue with definitions. There are degrees however to any word. Is stealing a sandwich from your roomate that owes you rent for the past 3 months months the same as stealing from an elderly lady? Both are stealing technically, but of different degrees. If you killed a person because they looked at you wrong in a club and things got out of hand the same as killing a pedophile that molested your daughter or son? Both would be considered murder would they not. Ultimately words are attached to symbols that have different meaning and different degrees to different people. As much as we would like (from my observations at least) to become a completely objective society we can't because our very experience is subjective in nature. It's not a black and white thing.

I don't steal because I believe in karma. What I do today, will affect me someday. Maybe not today, or tomorrow, but somewhere along the line, it will come back to bite me in the azz.

I have something called a conscience, which is obviously seriously lacking in today's world.

If it makes the OP feel better by justifying his theft, then he can have at 'er. Just don't complain when life steals something back from you..

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


You have made it very clear you have zero understanding of economics or business.

THAT is why you will remain a low paid wage monkey for the rest of your life.

reply to post by misnomer68


I also believe in karma (in some sense). But what about corporation karma? Is there such thing, of course not because they aren't real beings. But karma is there nontheless right? What happens if you work for a corporation, and realized that your corporation just backed a measure to privatize and export natural resources from a different country at the expense of the people there which leads to deaths and disease? Is that karma now yours? If not why so? How about if you are just the copy guy? See it gets complicated, and the only focus that I see here from most people are on the individuals themselves. But what about the individuals that perpetuate the situtation at hand knowingly or unknowingly? When does responsibility fall on the entity?

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

And you should arrest them. Again you are a small business owner (I know how they struggle) and shouldn't tolerate stealing especially if your employees are making more than what you are making. I am pretty confident that they aren't stealing though, but unfortunately there are rotten apples here and there. I just hope you don't equate your business with a larger organization based on share holder profit margins....two different animals.

There are some that say stealing is stealing, and that much is true because you can't argue with definitions. There are degrees however to any word. Is stealing a sandwich from your roomate that owes you rent for the past 3 months months the same as stealing from an elderly lady? Both are stealing technically, but of different degrees. If you killed a person because they looked at you wrong in a club and things got out of hand the same as killing a pedophile that molested your daughter or son? Both would be considered murder would they not. Ultimately words are attached to symbols that have different meaning and different degrees to different people. As much as we would like (from my observations at least) to become a completely objective society we can't because our very experience is subjective in nature. It's not a black and white thing.

Assigning degrees of morality to a certain act that is considered wrong by society serves only to diminish the moral stature of society as a whole. I agree somewhat that there is a certain amount of latitude when deciding how "wrong" an act is, and that is why we have judges.

Subjective morality has led us into this economic mess we're in. Would you prefer that wall street traders be more moral or less moral? What if they think they are not doing anything wrong if their acts go unpunished? Is that the measure by which we're judging morality now? By whether or not you get caught or how severe the punishment is?

I'll tell ya, t's pretty gray right now, and morality in this country needs to start moving BACK toward black & white, or we're all gonna get screwed even harder. You don't need religion to do it, either, just a strong sense of right and wrong, which apparently most people find to be very selective.

I've seen a lot of people say how they have a small business or they hire help or whatever, and they are disgusted with the thought of some employee stealing like OP.. OP wasn't talking about people like you. I believe he said at one point that the only job he DID NOT steal from was the independent coffee shop he'd worked at or something. Stop turning this into something it's not. We're talking about enormous entities, that would still make an insane profit even if employee theft were to triple, quadruple, whatever.

Think about it.. think about all the various ways that small amounts of money get lost or unaccounted for at any given corporation. Think about McDonalds for a second... when I was younger and actually ate there, I'd order my burger with no onions. I can't tell you how many times they'd get it wrong, and I'd let them know that I had ordered it without onions. What happens, you all know this.. they THROW OUT the burger they had given me, and they make a new one. Think about how many times that happens A DAY. Or think about when a gas station forgets if you gave them a $10 or a $20, and they give you way too much change.. think about how often that happens at any business.

We're not talking about small businesses here.. OP stated it, and I feel safe assuming that most people at ATS are critical thinking individuals with at least some sense of morals. That critical thinking part comes in handy when they're able to recognize the difference between working at 'Bill's Bookstore', where the actual 'Bill' who owns it all is there from open til close, and working at 'Papa John's' where the only time they see the actual 'John' is on the commercials.

What we should really do is collaborate on a list of corporations that we can agree are evil enough to steal from..

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

You have made it very clear you have zero understanding of economics or business.

THAT is why you will remain a low paid wage monkey for the rest of your life.

ahaha, You call me a monkey yet YOU are the "educated" sheep that has had the wool pulled over there eyes. You CONDONE slavery, it makes me laugh. You cant explain to me why everyone shouldnt have a livable wage without falling back on typical textbook "Because my professor told me so" BS.
Why dont you have a sit down and use the free mind you were born with.
Tell me, WHY should people work for NOTHING?

Cripes.

I can't believe the premise of this OP. It's a sad reflection on modern ethics.

Look, there are few who despise the un-sustainability and crass consumerism that most, if not all, companies represent more than me and certainly Capitalism hasn't been a boon to humanity but.. two wrongs don't make a right. Integrity is how you conduct yourself when no one is looking and decency is maintaining propriety despite the culture in which you find yourself.

Integrity and decency, two uniquely human qualities and, indeed, virtues.

People will not prevail against corporations - who seek to exploit us - by adopting their own ruthless tactics. We will prevail by realizing and reestablishing our humanity and thus our superiority.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


My point was that human interactions and motives are, in essence, gray matter. Morality is something agreed on by the masses at hand (or used through the means of propaganda by those in power) and for the most part people have an understanding of what is right and what is wrong, again based on the consensus. I've been using the word morality in error, perhaps a better word would be ethics. And I agree that ethics is a line being blurred, but that's what happens when you have living creatures that are subjective by nature. What one might find as ethical, another would not. This thread is a good example of that, in that the two parties debating BOTH have valid arguments that can be seen from either perspective. Both are judging it by their subjective experiences and principles, and through that picking a side. All experiences are valid to that given person.

reply to post by doctornamtab


I never steal from a job that I have any intention of keeping or using as a reference. I would never steal from a non-corporate job. There might be some exceptions depending on circumstances. I stole a large amount of goods and cash from a corporate job once, but never any other time.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
Cripes.

I can't believe the premise of this OP. It's a sad reflection on modern ethics.

People will not prevail against corporations - who seek to exploit us - by adopting their own ruthless tactics. We will prevail by realizing and reestablishing our humanity and thus our superiority.

I think the premise of this thread is genius.. discussions like this are often why I love this site.

I'm sure you'd support boycotting any corporations that one deems unethical.. at least I'd hope you would, it's an exercise of freedom and our right to chose. So in essence, stealing from one is a different means to the same end.

In my mind, it comes down to this... if OP were to steal $5 from his job four times a week, that's $20, which, if he's making $400 a week, is, what, 5% of his paycheck? Now what percent is $20 of the PROFIT that the corporation makes per week. Do they even care? NO. $20 less a week is NOTHING to them... NOTHING.. but it's a significant pay raise to OP. It could pay his cable bill, car insurance, etc.. It really could make somewhat of a difference in his life.

Again, I can just imagine a CEO of any enormous corporation laugh at us all arguing over the morality of stealing an amount of money that he would deem ENTIRELY INSIGNIFICANT. An amount of money he makes with every piece of toilet paper he uses to wipe his stinky a$$. Seriously, weigh the difference. It is NOT that big of a deal

reply to post by bacci0909


yet, like i tried to explain a page or so back, the employee will end up paying.
whether a lack of a raise or lack of benefits, or raise in cost of products.
since we know that he is not alone, multiply that by 6, 120 a week, which items or cash will eventually be discovered and the corp will reimberse itself one way or another at someone elses cost.

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

THAT is why you will remain a low paid wage monkey for the rest of your life.

There you go denigrating people with low incomes again. I think you do this, put them down, because it makes it easier for you to deal with the fact they are being used.

I used to know a dishwasher that was in his 40s. He was from a poor family and had no education to speak of. I am pretty sure he couldn't even read or write. He was border line retarded. I am almost sure he received no sort of assistance, though I think he would probably qualify for some. He made his money as a dishwasher. He wasn't particularly fast but he kept up and did a good job. He lived in very poor conditions - I know because I drove him to work and home on many days. It isn't like he could help his situation or turn it around. He was what he was and his situation was what is was. He was a good person, a human being. He deserves respect and the opportunity to live a decent life.

The place we worked at had a profit margin of 50% of all sales. It was huge!! That store alone made over 1 million dollars in profit per year! PROFIT!! It had one just one dishwasher and he was used and was paid crap. Just 10 thousand more a year would have made all the difference in his standard of living. This wouldn't even come close to affecting the bottom line let alone the prices. Give me a break - some of you people are so full of SH!T